Objective Schizophrenia 101

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posted on May, 21 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Hiya Val,

Okay I wanted to try and exaplin somethign that you have been asking?

The HOW part? Think of it this way....there is a hole on your Crown Charkra....and over that hole are "filters" of all of the paradigms that you(you being any person really) have formulated through out your life....now imagine that suddenly the number of filters changes(up, down, gone, more, less, etc...). This just happens...you see something, and in some cases it can literally be anything depending on the day and the mood.....and your paradigms about reality change...sometimes subtly sometimes drastically.

There have been a plethora of new psychiatric studies of late because the science is finally coming into its own...more and more people are finding that, with the right people), psychology is not just mumbo jumbo.

Anyways...Perception plays a HUGE role in the way we interact with and view our surrounding enviroment. If you think about exactly how we SEE things this begins to make even more sense. Light waves bounce off cones in our eyes that our brains then translate into images that we can undestand. Those images are directly derived from that which we know, have experiences, and in some cases if the mind is open enough even things that we dont know or havent experienced can be seen.

I know this post is is all over the place but i promise to wrap it into a nice neat package. Repetition blindness is one of the new faves of the field because it it seems to make so little sense. Just out of curiousity did you notice the double words....If you did great...in the most recent studies on Repetition blindness the results are showing that the mind tokenizes everthing into small parts transmits them and the recodes them into an understandable picture/word/phrase/etc....are you getting the idea....ive really glossed over the ideas...but if ou are half as deductive as you have been in other posts ive seen you in i know you will get all this.

Now all of what I have described affects EVERYONE...regardless of wether or not they are Normies or Disabled....everyones brain works not the same but on the same layout...make sense?

So...if...our perceptions directly dictate how we interact with and view our reality then a person who is afflicted by schizophrenia will end up having a very interesting out look.

So when pyro talks about being triggered...it might help to think about how it would feel to suddenly have core parts of your paradigm shift....Like when pyro(not sure of your gender hence no pronouns) went on "sentry duty" that was a fundamental paradigm shift...pyro went from going to get a soda, to interacting with reality, to observing reality, and finally on to catatonia. Now what I have been talkign about is the "non-physical"...meaning Im not talking about actual chemicals in the brain or any of that good jazz Im talking about the emotional/intellectual responses.

Now I haev long belived, as my grandma is schizophrenic, that it might in fact be US the normies who are not seeing reality as it trully is. There are just more people who see it wrong then see it right. Of all the disorders taht i have had to deal with schizophrenia can be the best and scariest all at the same time. Not scary because of delusions but more because I've seen some people get really scared and really realy freak out and on some level that really frightens me. However, I have had the pleasure of speaking with and learning from schizophrenics...unlike many commonly held fallacies....many schizophrenics are not M.R and therefore when they are lucid they exhibit no outward signs of an internal problem. This leads me to conclude that while in delusional state...either A) They are having the wool removed from thier eyes and are seeing reality as it exists without the constraints of commonly held belifs. or B) They are actually just delusional and thier brain is misfiring or transmitting the wrong neuro-chemicals.


Thank you pyro for starting this thread...i really enjoyed reading your experiences...I look forward to continuing this thread.




posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:08 PM
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I've never heard about the correlation to NDE's. That's interesting...

The transistion state from one state from one state of being to another being kept from the concious mind. I wonder why that's so important.

Perhaps I wasn't ready for that knowledge yet.

One of the last things I remembered thinking right before they administered the last injection was : "Please, let it be a morphine derivative."

Yikes! I just remembered more of the "soldier persona" - I was having a conversation with him (me?) in my head trying to gain more information and I was somehow able to ascertain that he was a soldier in either the first or second world war....apart from that I couldn't tell you specific details.

I've wondered sometimes if this "psuedopersona" was a past life, a departed spirit who was helping me write a fictional short story about a soldier), an internal manifestation of a personal archetype, or just the product of an overactive imagination.

I haven't had an episode since January and this "psudeopersona" has only been around for the past three years or so - and I couldn't tell you if he's still around as of this writing.

If he resurfaces, I'll try to gain some more insight into him - but what I know so far is that he's a bit of a private guy - and bit grumpy and noncommunicative.



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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No I didn't see the double is! Interesting.

Thank you for that very informative and interesting explanation. I tend to agree in the sense I feel the schizophrenic may actually be tapping into some things that are all around us, but most of us can't see it!

It has always been so fascinating to me and I look forward to reading everyone's post in this thread.



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Pyrotechnocracy23


I haven't had an episode since January and this "psudeopersona" has only been around for the past three years or so - and I couldn't tell you if he's still around as of this writing.

If he resurfaces, I'll try to gain some more insight into him - but what I know so far is that he's a bit of a private guy - and bit grumpy and noncommunicative.


So in those three years it has always been the same pseudopersona? The soldier from a previous war?

Oh yes - you just must write a book. I will want an autographed copy. And, YES!, if he returns you simply must see if you can carry forward information. Should we consider an appropriate set of questions? Do you think you could keep YOUR wits about you if he were to return so that you could ask the questions? That right there is a fascinating thing to consider in and of itself!

[edit on 5-21-2006 by Valhall]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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ELSENORPOMPOM -

You posted a few items that I found very helpful.

I've wondered if the crown chakra might be a precursor to a higher plane of personal experience - it would certianly make sense.

And I'm happy you balanced it out with some biological examples as well - while it's true it could be nothing more than a chemical imbalance disrupting the normal pathways of cognition in the brain and thereby causing different patterns of association, I just can't see how sucha thing woud explain some of the things I have gone through in episodes. At lot of the subject matter I dealt with at the time dealt with subject matter I am just now learning about. I had no previous frame of reference with which to form these "scenarios" in my mind.

That's the "mystical" part - and the part that leads to to think there might be a higher design to the whole experience. Maybe schizophrenia is nothing more than a personal spiritual awakening? This woud make sense as there is always an accompanying storyline that works itself in to each episode (almost like it's a guided experience).

If this is the case, it would explain why it's so distant from the normal accepted standard of reality - it's too personal to fall within the standard context of the average day to day. It would also explain why I get so uncomfortable in public situations and react so strangely - I'm coming into pathways of other life experiences and it's information I can't process into a completely personal journey.

Society, as a whole, tends to regard individual experience as undesirable - purely because it's so difficult to relate to someone who has an intensely different worldview. And most people don't have the time to really get to know someone in todays hectic world - they want the quick intro, and then a subject easiliy agreed upon.

Just a thought?



VALHALL -

Short story? LOL! In the works! I'm taking it slowly these days - a lot of the time I get intense headaches while working on the subject matter - but the basic premise is that of a soldier walking through a psychological test - on a worldwide scale. I'll U2U with a link and more info.
Wow. I'm totally flattered! Thanks!



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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I am interested in your thread, and your discription of schizophrenia.

Strangely enough, I am scared to see that your description of the disease parrallels quite a bit with my personality, interests, etc.

I would like to know what the general symptoms of schizophrenia are, if possible.

Oh, and this is my first post on this forum as well.



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Hi, Augmenter. Welcome to the thread.

*disclaimer : this page is not inteneded to treat, diagnose, or in anyway override the need for professional diagnosis and treatment.


A lot of what we've talked about in here are parallels between schizophrenia to other esoteric experiences - the possibility that I have been "misdiagnosed" by a medical community that doesn't really "have the time" to deal with matters that may be nothing more than an intensely personal spiritual awakening - and thereby label people as having a disease when they really don't.

As this is on a conpiracy site - and a lot of our opinions and worldviews aren't necessarily the same as medical professionals, I'd be wary of equating anything on here as "established medical fact."

They're just personal experiences and a personal interpretation.

Also -

You mentioned you feel you have had parallels regarding your own personality, interests, experiences....would you care to share with us? Have you been diagnosed with schizophrenia/schizoaffective or bipolar disorder?

Secondly -

There are a lot of sites out there with information relating to Schizophrenia, and I've looked through a lot of them. The best source for information would have to be the DSM:

Definition

Schizophrenia (in Greek, “split mind") is a severe mental illness characterized by a variety of symptoms including but not limited to:loss of contact with reality

bizarre behavior
disorganized thinking
disorganized speech
decreased emotional expressiveness
diminished or loss of contact with reality
diminished to total social withdrawal.

Schizophrenia afflicts approximately one percent of the world's population, making it the most common psychosis. Schizophrenia is characterized by positive and negative symptoms. Fundamental symptoms include thought disturbance, withdrawal, and difficulties managing effect. Secondary symptoms include perception disorders such as hallucinations and grandiosity. Symptoms may also be non-schizophrenic in nature, including anxiety, depression, and psychosomatic symptoms.

NOTE: A second opinion is a good idea in a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

"Schizophrenia is probably the most misused psychological term in existence" (Carlson, 1995 )


If you'd like to talk about your personal experiences - feel free. This is a non-judgemental forum, and I'm here in an extremely unbiased capacity.


*edit for spelling


[edit on 22-5-2006 by Pyrotechnocracy23]



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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It is also important to remmeber that a large cross section of the people who inhabit this planet have Sub-clinical symptomology....there are two defintions of having disease in the DSM....Clinical and sub-clinical...whats makes the difference is Duration and intesnisty. All people have at one tnmie or another exhibited behavior that could be interpretted as being abnormal.

Now...to have a lil fun...ponder the difference between Rich Eccentrics and Poor "crazies"...its really really interesting when you look at how society reacts towards those who are mentally disabled and thier economic station.



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Very true...very true. Thanks for that addition.

Regarding "eccentrics" and "crazies"

I'm from an upper middle-class family but you wouldn't know it based on the way I'm dressed when I get hospitailzed...most of the time I'm in the basic t-shirt and jeans and I've noticed this sometimes influences the way the "medical professionals" react to me - especially here in rural Arkansas.

I've seen behavior here that makes you wonder why anyone would enter into the nursing profession aside from a desire for money. Their people skills and social graces are far from anything I'm accumstomed to. Horrendous.

I actually heard one nurse state "We have to put this one down." (as if I were some sort of animal) - and the state of mind I was in made me question exactly what they intended to put in that injection. Not fun.

Once I was sedated, I was taken to a sub-rate facility that was "pretty on the outside" but whose idea of therapy was - "Here's where you smoke, here's the television and feel free to use the box of crayons to express yourself."

No groups, no counseling, no outdoor opportunities.

All for the bargain price of $800 a day.

The sad thing is - I notice this, but the majority of the more "severe" cases don't seem to expect anything different. Social standing and economic class really does play a major role in the treatment one recieves.



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 08:20 PM
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Please excuse me if this seems like a stupid question.
I just wondered if it would be possible to hypnotically "program" a person with this disease to recognize when they are entering the "other" mindset and to take appropriate action. (a pill, or a phone call, etc.)
I know very little about this subject, and I appreciate you taking your time to educate us.
Great topic, very interesting.



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 08:33 PM
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The timing of you coming along, pyro, is so strange. We have this wonderful man where I work who is originally from Nigeria. He moved to the states several years ago and his wife divorced him taking his daughter with her and they now live in Louisiana (he is in Oklahoma). His daughter has been (just in the past year) diagnosed with schizophrenia. For the first time today I was able to talk to him with some intelligence to my comments on his deep concern for his daughter. His ex-wife doesn't allow him to see her except when they need money...so he is so disconnected with the situation now due to this hostility. He walks around with this immense concern and burden in his face. He is such a dear sweet man. His daughter is constantly paranoid of "the people who are after her". I can offer nothing but my sincere concern, but now I can offer it with some symblance of understanding. That I owe to you. Thank you so much!


[edit on 5-22-2006 by Valhall]



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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You're more than welcome, Valhall. I hope the situation improves for him and his relationship with his daughter. If I might ask - how old is she?


Beer Guy - Welcome!

I've wondered if this was possible as well. The subject of hypnosis has always fascinated me. But on a side note, a parnoid might really freak out on the prospect of being hypnotised. There's a lot of "control issues" with a lot of schizophrenics - they worry about things that are outside the direct scope of their own management, but fail to realize how much control they DO have on their own actions and interpretations of what they go through.

I've found that routine works the best - after a while, it tends to become an unconcious action.



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 09:54 PM
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She's in her late teen years. I'm not sure of her exact age, but she's 17-19.

(she was beginning her senior year last fall when she was diagnosed, so I assume this age range)

[edit on 5-22-2006 by Valhall]



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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That's the age mine began as well.

It's called "adult-onset schizophrenia" and it sounds like shes' going through the paranoid type.

Now you've got me wanting to ask a million questions!

You mentioned she's isolated from her father now. Were they close? (I know I was with my father, even though due to the nature of his job he was sort of the distant type.)

Is she highly intelligent/creative? (Schizophrenia tends to affect these people more)

and

Does she ever identify "who" is after her?

I have a theory I'd like to test about possible similarities about divorce and how it may/may not affect schizophrenic women...

[edit on 22-5-2006 by Pyrotechnocracy23]



posted on May, 22 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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Hi pyro, did you have a near death experience or serious mental trauma at the onset of your condition at age 19? Suicidal ever? The hyper vigilance aspect of your episodes is interesting. I think some peoples episodes can be triggered by so much as a scowl on a strangers face or any inkling of danger and they seem to notice minute details of their surroundings. like a stage II fight or flight response. One other thing do you have any precognizant (prophetic) abilities. Good subject.



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 01:18 AM
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Hey Spongebob - Welcome to the thread! I hope this answers your question:

Regarding PSTD: (I don't know if this counts)

I moved away from home at the age of 17 - not that I don't love and get along with my parents or anything - we just reached an impass in regards to personal boundaries.

I grew up as an only child, surrounded by a less than ideal homelife. My mother was prone to excessive drama, blowing things out of proportion and used me as her personal psychologist since the age of four.

My father worked in a very demanding position in the military, and was not really emotionally available. He tended to cope through alcohol and this would create an additional source of conflict between himself and my mother.

My first thoughts of running away were also at age four.

I was exceptionally bright and inquisitive, but I think the stress of living in such a dysfunctional household made me more introverted and withdrawn in social situations than is normal for that age. I escaped through art and long walks in nature to escape the reality of my situation.

In school, I tuned out to the majority of my peers. My father hand selected my schools, and the kids there employed a massive amount of psychological taunting and posturing to ensure their eventual superiority in the social heirachy later on in life. I moved often, and spent and incredible amount fo time alone on my various projects and interests. No one in my age group was really interested in the same things I was - or else they simply didn't understand.

My extended family (whom we saw often) was in a constant state of competition with one another, and fights would break out at every gathering.

I just the "hyper-vigillance" is the by-product of these early experiences. It would be an understatement to say Life has been a bit of a challenge in the social arena for me. I've always had to "go it alone".

Suicide has never been an option - although I have though about it several times in depressive states - but never during an episode. Strangely enough, episodic breaks are some of the most life-affirming moments I have - the senses are sharper, the air I breathe sweater, the stars more brilliant.

The vigillance tends to make people uneasy when I come into contact with them, and I think this is due to the fact that I am a short, "pretty" girl. Most people have a generalized prejudice towards me and I've spent the majority of my life "playing the role" as it were. I have to conform in order to have normal relations with most people. It would freak them out to know some facts of my past and how I lived during my dissociative fugues. The episodes are really just the tip of the iceberg.

I can't say I'm precogniscent - although I do have a very heightened response to danger. I can walk around at night and sense people coming before I see them, and I get strong impressions from people sometimes - an I usually go out of my way to walk around them or divert my course. This rarely happens though.

The triggers aren't usually visual per se - although there have been a few times when in a delusional state I have misread anothers intentions. Most of the people closest to me tend to "look" at me in a way I feel is disapproving, like I'm not allowed to be "that person" while they're around. Whether or not this is a figment of my imagination or not during these times is unknown. Most people don't admit their true thoughts and feelings in regards to others - either they aren't really in tune with themselves or they simply don't want conflict.

I think your assesment of fight or flight is extremely relevent. I tend to hold my ground, although I never push the issue further without a direct cause.

As far as prophecy - I have no idea. I do think there is a lot of things going on right now in respect to the state of the union that is making people feel a lot more unsure, angry and inclined to be suspicious towards anything "different".



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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As a further side note:

Would you believe I've been asked more questions and divuldged more personal information in this thread than any of the professional sessions I've attended?

More often than not our "counseling" tends to center on medication.

It seems the majority of psychologists either don't have time to really get into possible links between personal history and coping skills.

Is it because people are inherently lazy in regards to other peoples problems?

Is the system just too saturated with patients to dedicate active interest?

Is it a money issue?

Or is the modern trend of the "Pill Cure" really taking the place of standard psychology?


Dae

posted on May, 23 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Pyrotechnocracy23
Would you believe I've been asked more questions and divuldged more personal information in this thread than any of the professional sessions I've attended?


Well thats bloody brilliant if you ask me, except the bit where counselling has failed you. Reckon that you would have talked about this to a professional if they were really interested in you and not fearful.


More often than not our "counseling" tends to center on medication.


Aye, it is the easy solution, one that provides information for them to jot down on yer records. I suppose on the positive side, it is what people think they can do for you, something solid in the face of your problems.

A friend of mine was going through an 'episode' (she hospitalised herself later on) when I visted her house once. She had a few friends there and they were telling me about the lighter demon thats in the house. Im all like, "oh yeah?" and they all back her up, saying lighters are doomed in her house. Im thinking oh god she really doesnt need this.

I then ask for my lighter back (the reason for the lighter demon conversation, someone needed to borrow one) and it was thrown at me, but wasnt thrown hard enough and landed on the floor, in the middle of us. The damn thing exploded. Now, Ive seen lots of lighters (the plastic see-through disposable type) dropped and never have they exploded, Ive only seen this when a lighter has been thrown with force on the ground. It was also my lighter, so no 'hoaxing'.

I remember thinking "Bloody hell universe if that was just a coincidence then that was NOT funny, she doesnt need that BS right now"

That experience especially and many others led me to believe that it cant be just organic all of the time.



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Pyrotechnocracy23




That's the "mystical" part - and the part that leads to to think there might be a higher design to the whole experience. Maybe schizophrenia is nothing more than a personal spiritual awakening? This woud make sense as there is always an accompanying storyline that works itself in to each episode (almost like it's a guided experience).





now your getting to the model that i see/comprehend.
i'd say that only extremes of schizophrenia are 'diseases',
like whenever your response/reaction to the voices &or paranoias &or catatonic
states are severly debilitating to ones ability to thrive in society.

Shaman's are, to my mind, are able to step outside the 'ordinary reality' and enter the non-ordinary reality, which is the realm that schizophrenics encounter...
sometimes overwhelming them.

but on occasion, the brain chemical imbalance creates a run-away schizophrenia.
and then the pharmaceutical medicine culture is the proper method of remedy.
but not the present willy-nilly dosing of patients with thorazine or psychotropics
who display even the faintest symptom of psychosis or schizophrenia.

A lot (maybe20%) can be 'repaired' if the psychiatrists/psychologists/sociologists
would accept the fact & valid nature of 'shamanism' and the personal
interactions, explainations the shaman could bring to the health community.

its (shaman) not all that mystical or metaphysical...as one is programmed to believe. If you take for example these 2 different schools of thought in Psychology;
there's the Carl Jung followers and there are the Sigmund Freud followers
but both views of the nature of the mind are existing side-by-side, even though Freud-Jung are at times in conflict with one another.

this juxtaposition of sorts, might liken the Freud-view as reflecting the practical world of nature, physical survival etc, aka 'ordinary reality'
the alternative of course is the Jung-view, which is immersed in the 'internal world',
where thoughts, motivations etc, have a presence & force, aka 'non-ordinary reality'
i think that schizos', shamans et al, are stepping into either/both realities
and this ability to navigate thru the seeming confusion is of great benefit and is a survival trait !



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Hey guys i was wondering does anybody else's meds make them feel guilty about the way that they deal with things like not doing enough for the kids, or your spouse, or life in general. i guess every one does a little seems the meds amplify this for me.





 
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