The ultimate supersonic Aircraft

There was an era when a better plane ment a faster plane and every one was trying to make the unreachable aircraft.
So wich one is that plane? What is the ultimate cold era airplane.



Is it the XB-70



(And I wonder what would have that third prototype of the XB-70 looked like)

Or will you choose the TSR2



Well you might say the SR-71 but I'm gonna put the YF-12 as a true fighting mochine




But my personal favourite is the Suhoi T-4



Either that one or the Tupolev-2000. The counterpart of the X-30.



But there were many recordbreakerplanes build as slimed down and beafed up versions of the existing ones that were simply astounding.
There are some of the russian ones over here

A Question for Waynos

And I hope of seeing some of the US versions of such aircraft.

Not so sure which the best one is but the best aircraft are deffo from that era when planes were MADE, I know now we have boss stuff like F-22s/F-35s but i still think the cold war era was the best time of aircraft.

XF-103 Proposal, XB-70, B-58 Hustler, A-12/YF-12s, were some boss jets from that time

www.arrse.co.uk...=3382/fullsize=1.html

www.arrse.co.uk...=3383/fullsize=1.html

Boss if stuff like that was still made but there would have to be a reason for it to be built.

Its even mad to see how these things end up, All the money, qualifications, prescicion, spent on these things and in about 20ish years time they end up in museums, scrapyards and rotting away on a grass field like the A-12 image above.

www.moninoaviation.com...

www.amarcexperience.com...



[edit on 20-5-2006 by Browno]

Originally posted by planeman

Nice airplane. Relatively cheap to build, maintain and fly and certainly the most versatile of the ones presented but in terms of raw speed the SR-71 is in a different class. Of course, the SR-71 is in a different class in terms of cost as well.

Why is the TSR-2 in the list? I could understand a TSR-3 ...

[edit on 21-5-2006 by orca71]

Originally posted by planeman

I agree... no battle here... TSR2 and the Valkyre are sure nice planes, but can they intercept fighters... no...

Don't forget the CF-105 Arrow



The Beautiful White Bird....

[edit on 21/5/2006 by Airazor]

Originally posted by Airazor


Thera are also the Mirage-IV



The Mirage G8





[edit on 21/5/2006 by Airazor]

[edit on 21/5/2006 by Airazor]

I'll take a two-for-one special, please:

If we are just talking "super sonic", then we MUST consider oh...about every other fighter plane out there.

MOST versatile?

The most exalted F-14 Tomcat then. If "supersoic" is the only qualifier, no other plane is existance is as versatile. Lets see you land that Foxbat on a carrier...

And if "super sonic" is the ony criteria, then why not the F-22?

Point, set, match.

Originally posted by skippytjc
If we are just talking "super sonic", then we MUST consider oh...about every other fighter plane out there.

MOST versatile?

The most exalted F-14 Tomcat then. If "supersoic" is the only qualifier, no other plane is existance is as versatile. Lets see you land that Foxbat on a carrier...

And if "super sonic" is the ony criteria, then why not the F-22?

Point, set, match.

the author wrote "What is the ultimate cold era airplane. "... Didn't know the F-22 is from the cold era...

Point, set and match...

[edit on 22-5-2006 by Figher Master FIN]

Originally posted by planeman

A true understanding of the attributes and failings of the MiG-25 came in 1976. On 6 September of that year a PVO pilot, Lt. Viktor Belenko, defected to the West, landing his MiG-25P 'Foxbat-A' at Hakodate airport in Japan. Although Belenko's aircraft was eventually returned to the USSR, it was first carefully dismantled and analysed by the Foreign Technology Division of the USAF, at Dayton, Ohio. After 67 days the aircraft was returned to the Russians in pieces. The analysis showed some surprising facts:

* The particular aircraft was brand new, representing the very latest Soviet technology.

* The aircraft was built very quickly, and was essentially built around its massive Tumansky turbofans.

* The majority of the on-board avionics was based on vacuum tube technology, not transistors. Some have speculated that this was not in fact inferior technology, but a deliberate approach by the Soviets to build a system much less prone to the effects of EMP during a nuclear explosion. Vacuum tubes are up to 1000 times more able to withstand EMP than solid-state electronics. Vacuum tubes also provide very massive power, making jamming meaningless. The original radar in the MiG-25 could output 500 kW (large land-mobile air defense radars of the 1960's had pulses worth about 1 MW). Tube cooling was facilitated by boiling off pure alcohol.

* Welding was done by hand.

* Construction was relatively crude, with exposed rivet heads in areas that were unimportant for good drag performance. This is normal for any Soviet aircraft; the same is true for the contemporary MiG-29.

* The airspeed indicator was redlined at Mach 2.8, and pilots were required not to exceed Mach 2.5. The Americans had witnessed a MiG-25 flying at Mach 3.2 over Israel in 1973, a flight that had resulted in the total destruction of its engines. The Americans were unaware of the inevitability of the destruction, which helped to fuel the myths about the aircraft's capabilities.

* Combat radius was 186 miles (300 km), and without afterburner, straight line range was only 744 miles (1,200 km). In fact, Belenko had only just made it to Japan without running out of fuel - without sufficient fuel for a carefully planned landing, he narrowly missed a commercial airliner taking off, and overran the available runway on landing.

* Most MiG-25 used the KM-1 ejector seat, the last versions used an early variant of the famous K-36 seats. The speed record for fastest successful ejection at 2.67 Mach is held by a KM-1 equipped MiG-25.

* Maximum acceleration (G-load) rating was just 2.2 G (22 m/s²) with full fuel tanks, with an absolute limit of 5 G (49 m/s²). This was significantly poorer performance than the previous generation F-4 Phantom. One MiG-25 withstood inadvertent 11.5 G (113 m/s²)pull during low-altitude dogfight training, but the airframe had to be written off due to deformation.

* The aircraft was built of steel alloy and not titanium as supposed. Some titanium was used in heat-critical areas. The steel construction contributed to its massive 64,000 lb (29 t) unarmed weight.

As a result of Belenko's defection and the compromise of the MiG-25P's radar and missile systems, beginning in 1978 the Soviets developed an advanced version, the MiG-25PD ('Foxbat-E'), with a new RP-25 'Sapfir' look-down/shoot-down radar, infrared search and track (IRST) system, and more powerful engines. About 370 earlier MiG-25Ps were converted to this standard and redesignated MiG-25PDS.

Source

My vote goes to the A12/SR71.


I think the XB70 could have been a serious warbird, and its a shame that it didnt make it.

I think the F14 and 15 are pretty impressive.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by warpboost]

The F-22 is most certainly a cold war era aircraft. It was dreamed up and designed during the cold war to fight cold war style enemies. The fact that its just now being deployed does not change what the plane was originally designed for.

Originally posted by skippytjc
The F-22 is most certainly a cold war era aircraft. It was dreamed up and designed during the cold war to fight cold war style enemies. The fact that its just now being deployed does not change what the plane was originally designed for.

The F-22 didn't deploy until the millenium after the cold war had ended



No way is it a cold war aircraft. The EMD (which produced the production aircraft) was done post 1991.

^^^^^ kilcoo he means the ATF concept. Don't jump to conclusions and post posts without thinking. I agree however it's no cold war plane. It's ability and mission roles are always evolving.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by urmomma158]

Not too many people are aware that the TSR 2 was in fact a genuine mach 3 airframe whos performance was limited to mach 2 by the engines and the immediate requirement and cost limitations. The airframe was designed so that an expected future mid life update of it 'post 1975' could easily produce a mach 3 bomber without any structural or aerodynamic re design.

Obviously this was rendered academic by its cancellation and it is certain that mach 3 capability would not have been added in the mid 70's but we only know this through hindsight and the designers, at the time that the SR-71, XB-70 and MiG 25 were all in the works ,could not possibly have known it so kudos to them for that

If you're going for pure speed, I would have to say the Blackbird Family of aircraft (A-12, YF-12, M-12, SR-71).

The reason I referred to the whole family is because there are four slightly different aircraft with different missions, but they all had identical preformance capibilities including Mach 3+ speeds, Altitudued in excess of 100'000 FT, comprable range, ect. The exact figures vary for each version, but they are extreemly close.



Each Version also had it's own mission:

A-12: Single seat Spy Plane for the CIA

YF-12: US Air Force interceptor prototype. Carried the precurser of the AIM-54 Phoenix Missile (AIM-47)

M-12: A two seat version of the A-12 that could launch the D-21 Reconnassance Drone

SR-71: Two seat US Air Force Spy Plane that flew for over 25 years.

There a rundown of what I truly think is the ultimate supersonic aircraft. Now it been over thirty years since it was first design and it's record setting preformance has yet to be surpassed by any known aircraft!

Tim


[edit on 23-5-2006 by ghost]

Originally posted by skippytjc
The F-22 is most certainly a cold war era aircraft. It was dreamed up and designed during the cold war to fight cold war style enemies. The fact that its just now being deployed does not change what the plane was originally designed for.

You got to be kidding me...

Well the same could be said for the MiG-25. It had a M3 airframe and it was capable of reaching M3.2 , but we know that for the MiG to sustain such a speed without any damage to the engines(and only the engines that is) some modifications had to be made furst(to the engines and maybe the airintakes too).

I think that the MiG can beat the TSR2 on almost everything exept maximum Gs...I have no info on the TSR's stats so i can't say for sure. And the MiG-31M had a much better manuverability 5g+

[edit on 23-5-2006 by vorazechul]

Originally posted by urmomma158
^^^^^ kilcoo he means the ATF concept. Don't jump to conclusions and post posts without thinking. I agree however it's no cold war plane. It's ability and mission roles are always evolving.

Then it would be the YF-22 and not the F-22.

There were a large number of changes from the dem/val prototypes to the service machine.

Thanks for the most informative historical discussion but... Don't you think that right now the ultimate supersonic aircraft is in fact the SpaceShip One, by Burt Rutan???


[edit on 23-5-2006 by Aelita]