I had a chat with a white friend of mine today.
She is one of my more spiritually enlightened buds, but didn't know that 'tar baby' was used in a derogatory manner.
She fondly remembered the Uncle Remus fables with Brother rabbit, Brother bear, etc...

OK, kewl.... I can understand her not having heard the term, I can understand her not getting that Song of the South trivialized slavery. Shoot, even I wondered why slavery was a big deal after seeing it. Uncle Remus had it made! Happy as can be...sitting around telling stories to the kids...and a hero at that! He saved the little white boy.
and there was lemonade!
Basically, the movie sugar-coated the horrors of slavery and Disney banned it in the US. Why only banned in the US? Because the rest of the world has a more realistic grasp of slavery and can take it in it's proper context...a more balanced perspective.
The US didn't have such a balance. I still don't think this country is ready for it.

When I told her the word was extremely derogatory to my race and how it was used and that Snowjob had used it in his first session, her reaction was 'OMG'!!
Then I told her how it was handled.
As expected, she doesn't want a social illiterate like Tony Snow representing her government any more than I do.

truthseeka, ATSChristopher, psyopswatcher, and muzebl,

I read all of your comments and I would like to thank you for understanding my side of the issue. Each of you have your different points of view, but I appreciate you noticing that "tar baby" is a racist slur. Your posts have made me feel that my experiences that I tried to share about my view of the word had been noticed.

When I stopped posting in this thread a while back, I did it out of protest because I felt my experiences were not being recognized. I'm sure that all of you have read what had happened on the thread and discovered that this discussion was acrimonious at best. In fact, it ended up badly when I left off. I authored the thread hoping that it would discuss both sides of "tar baby".

All of your opinions about the Tony Snow issue gives me hope that people would see past the facade of Joel Chandler Harris' stories and the words of Tony Snow.

On my other thread, "Is talking about race a taboo?" the posters and myself have discussed the aftermath of the debate here and it still had the tensions that were not resolved from seriously discussing the word as a racial slur.

You are all welcome to come over to that thread as well to discuss issues about race-relations in general. "Is Talking about Race a taboo?" is in the Social Issues thread. We need new blood on that thread as well. Our discussions deal with not only the Tony Snow issue, but much more topics about how to understand one another. That issue is just as important.

Again, I give you my thanks for your words and consciences when exposing the ugly nature that resides from the use of "tar baby".


Take good care,

Ceci

I'm sorry that I got into this discussion late.

I just wanted to put my name in the "Appalled by his Stupidity and Utter Lack of Sensitivity" column.

I understand how the earlier posters felt, when they explained that the context of the comment altered whatever derogatory associations we, American blacks, have with the term. Fine.

The problem is deeper. When I first registered here, it was to respond to a specific comment that I felt was racially insensitive. In that initial post, I made the point that ATS is one of the few places, real world or otherwise, where I can find people both intelligent and open-minded enough to respectfully debate a vast array of conspiracies, ranging from reasonable ones to the 'tin-foil hat' variety.

Except when it comes to race.

It seems that, on this topic, the admonition to 'deny ignorance' goes flying right out of the window.

In a way, I have to admit that it is refreshing to finally know what people really think, when they're not being 'PC' or, as I like to call it, 'polite, respectful, and conducive to a multi-ethnic society.'

[edit on 8-6-2006 by HarlemHottie]

If I may add my "two cents" to an already overworked topic....

As it turns out, no matter how one can spin the comments as not racist, if it is perceived as so to a certain segment of the population then the harm is done...

Please accept that this racist, murderous, lying, stealing, cheating,..all around evil country is merely the sum of its parts.

Now many will respond in protest but it is simply the greed driven survival instincts within them...

There is the top rich white superstructure and the lower level (upper middle and middle class) that constitutes the racist, murderous, lying, stealing, cheating,..etc.. behavior that can be seen nationally and globally.

I like to call the upper-middle and middle class the "gatekeepers". They unknowingly are protecting the very system that is slowly causing their demise.

Nationally people elect a handful of white males to represent their needs, wants and wishes. When all evidence points to the white male as primarily looking after his own needs, wants, and wishes---AS HE SHOULD....

So then ask yourself why would any white person concern themself with the well bieng of a non-white person at there own expense....much less care about the affects of a comment.

Any Black person reading this please understand this is not your country... Never was never will be.. Once you accept this fact then you can move on with the understanding that the things that go on are not in your best interest...

Now watch the respone... white people will say leave the country... Already done... Then they will say this is the best country in the world for blacks... GARBAGE... How can a country that incarcerates a significant amount of the black male population be best for blacks...

I could go on, but I will end with "A Zebra cannot change his stripes"

Originally posted by israelcd
Nationally people elect a handful of white males to represent their needs, wants and wishes. When all evidence points to the white male as primarily looking after his own needs, wants, and wishes---AS HE SHOULD....

So then ask yourself why would any white person concern themself with the well bieng of a non-white person at there own expense....much less care about the affects of a comment.

Any Black person reading this please understand this is not your country... Never was never will be.. Once you accept this fact then you can move on with the understanding that the things that go on are not in your best interest...

Now watch the respone... white people will say leave the country... Already done... Then they will say this is the best country in the world for blacks... GARBAGE... How can a country that incarcerates a significant amount of the black male population be best for blacks...

I could go on, but I will end with "A Zebra cannot change his stripes"

I don't do this often, but...
You have voted israelcd for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

At my lowest points, I've reached these same conclusions. I try to be optimistic, and fight for what is rightfully mine, and for what my people fought for (equality), but I really don't see it happening.

Of course, a lot of white people try, and I sincerely appreciate their efforts, but there are considerably more who just accept the benefits of white privilege and never even think about it, until affirmative action comes up, of course.

Originally posted by MrPenny
the phrase "tar baby" has been used as a derogatory statement often enough that his use of it is unfortunate. He should have chosen his words a bit better.

Where is it used as a derogatory statement, MrPenny, please? And by whom? For what purpose?

I for one have never heard it used outside of a recitation of the story, but I think Snow's meaning a sticky wicket is a rather clever use of American folklore and certainly shows he is well-read, as I assume a press secretary should be.

Originally posted by israelcdPlease accept that this racist, murderous, lying, stealing, cheating,..all around evil country is merely the sum of its parts.

"That this country" indicates you live here, you hypocrite. You have the privilege to talk smack about America WHILE living here, or abroad, and no one is going to send the government police to your house to check you out, see what your bank account is all about, who pays your bills, what your plans for the future of America are, but so far as I'm concerned, they should.

Especially if you are taking flying lessons, or learning to drive a truck.

Well, do you?

Originally posted by muzebl
She is one of my more spiritually enlightened buds, but didn't know that 'tar baby' was used in a derogatory manner.

I had never heard the term before at all. And while I understand that people are sensitive to it, I'm not sure I understand really why. I mean, ok, so it has been used as a derogatory term towards black people. So has the N word and black people seem to be quite enamoured with that one.

Can someone tell me the difference?

And it's a word. Letters strung together. How can anyone possibly give a word so much power? I swear there is no word or phrase anyone could say to me that I would allow to have such power over me to get me all upset. It doesn't make sense to me.

Are there certain words that we as a society should just ban from the language? I mean people have said 'tar baby' 50 times in this thread and no one is upset by it. So it's not the word that has the power, it's the listener's interpretation or perception.

I can see if Snow knew it was a racial slur and used it anyway, but I have no indication that he did. I'm well-read and intelligent and I had never heard it.

Originally posted by curiousity
"That this country" indicates you live here, you hypocrite. You have the privilege to talk smack about America WHILE living here, or abroad, and no one is going to send the government police to your house to check you out,

Yes. Exactly. He does have that right. Are you saying he shouldn't exercise it because he has it? I'm puzzled as to how exercising his right to free speech makes him a hypocrite... Please explain.

Especially if you are taking flying lessons, or learning to drive a truck.

Soooo... speaking negatively about America makes him a terrorist suspect?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by muzebl
She is one of my more spiritually enlightened buds, but didn't know that 'tar baby' was used in a derogatory manner.

I had never heard the term before at all. And while I understand that people are sensitive to it, I'm not sure I understand really why. I mean, ok, so it has been used as a derogatory term towards black people. So has the N word and black people seem to be quite enamoured with that one.

Can someone tell me the difference?

And it's a word. Letters strung together. How can anyone possibly give a word so much power? I swear there is no word or phrase anyone could say to me that I would allow to have such power over me to get me all upset. It doesn't make sense to me.

PEN? SWORD? Which is mightier? (words have POWER)

Why use a term that is hurtful unless that is it's selfish intent? It's a BLACK THANG! But if you can't understand that a tar baby refers to that little tar black baby image with the big white lips, painted up like a minstrel, you wouldn't want to be associated with the image either.
So, put away your dictionary and THINK already!

>>I can see if Snow knew it was a racial slur and used it anyway, but I have no indication that he did. I'm well-read and intelligent and I had never heard it.

He's MORON! After he made the slur, he argued his 'right' to use it. Well, if that's how he's going to use his civil rights, I have a right to tell him how he offended my culture by using it.
He also has the right to wear a white 'hoodie', too!



[edit on 12-7-2006 by masqua]