Upside down cross on popes chair.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Nope, it makes all Nazis followers of Lucifer, the bringer of light who is the sun god Baal. The swastika is a sun symbol from Babylon.

you know that we have 2 threads in which you can prove that point
yet you have yet to do so
what's the deal?

You might notice the cross of Baal on the Popes vestments, the same sign that is on a German warplane.

first, go to the thread in which i challenged you, and prove that point, and the other point i called you out on here

second, it's the same cross that the swiss have on their flag and that the red cross uses...

I knew someone that was a Satan worshiper and he had crosses all thru out his home on the walls turned upside down.

This was an evil man .

Originally posted by MagicaRose
I knew someone that was a Satan worshiper and he had crosses all thru out his home on the walls turned upside down.

This was an evil man .

this has nothing to do with the pope
the pope's "upside down cross" is the cross of peter
seeing that all popes have a thing for peter, they like this cross a lot...
i wonder why a pope would like peter

Prior to Christ's first pick for church leader (St. Peter) being hung upside down on a cross, i'm not sure the upsidedown cross was used as a symbol for satan.

In other words I can't find any information that suggests the upsidedown cross was used as a symbol for satanism, until after St. Peter (first pope) was crucified upsidedown. St. Peter's crucifixion may have been viewed as a victory for evil forces.

just a thought i had. Does anyone know any information concerning when the upsidedown cross was used as a satanic symbol prior to Jesus's first choice for pontif being crucified upsidedown?

Thanks,
john

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
In other words I can't find any information that suggests the upsidedown cross was used as a symbol for satanism, until after St. Peter (first pope) was crucified upsidedown.

It's St. Peter's Cross.

Well, if you're anti-christ you'll probably come up with anything to disrespect Christianity, whether it's turning a cross upside down, soaking it in urine, burning it, etc..........I think we can really thank Hollywood for the "scary, upside-down crucifix worshipping Satanists..." that the current protestant fundamentalists have grasped onto to bash the Catholic Church. "Let's use a tired horror movie cliche to prove a point." LOL!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

you know that we have 2 threads in which you can prove that point
yet you have yet to do so
what's the deal?

The swastika comes from Babylon. You are certainly free to disprove this comment.

BY SUN MATRIX
You might notice the cross of Baal on the Popes vestments, the same sign that is on a German warplane.

first, go to the thread in which i challenged you, and prove that point, and the other point i called you out on here

First, you are free to disprove that the Pope wears the cross of Baal on his vestments, second you are free to disprove that the it is on the German warplanes.

You can't disprove either point.

Third, I have been busy with a funeral and haven't posted much in the last week. I gave you enough info with one point to prove that I didn't dream up my position.

second, it's the same cross that the swiss have on their flag and that the red cross uses...

Bingo.............the red cross uses it. More important than knowing that the Red Cross uses the cross of Baal as it's symbol would be the question why.
Baal the sun god is also the god of healing.

Most medical associations around the world use the staff of Aeculapius as their symbol including the American Medical Association. www.ama-assn.org...

Aeculapius the Roman god of medicine had many children including the goddess Hygieia where the word hygiene comes from and the goddess Panaceia the goddess of healing where the word panecea comes from meaning universal healing.

Aeculapius is the son of Apollo the Greek sun god who is also called the god of healing and of course he is Baal from Babylon who is Lucifer. And Lucifer is Satan and Satan is the serpent and the serpent is on the staff of Aeculapius.

Just the work of the deceiver, the serpent........nothing new. Been going on since the beginning.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Just the work of the deceiver, the serpent...

Or maybe just some cool ass artwork and graphic design done by the hand of a man at some point in time.....and later turned into conspiracy so as to tarnish another's reputation or cause questioning..............

Remember when Paul McCartney took his shoes off and walked against the stride of the other Beatles on the cover of "Abbey Road", and everyone said, "This means Paul is dead. Paul is dead." How barefeet and an altered gate killed Paul I could never understand? Ahh, how some people love a conspiracy even when it isn't even there.

[edit on 7-1-2007 by rocknroll]

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Just the work of the deceiver, the serpent...

Or maybe just some cool ass artwork and graphic design done by the hand of a man at some point in time.....and later turned into conspiracy so as to tarnish another's reputation or cause questioning..............

Remember when Paul McCartney took his shoes off and walked against the stride of the other Beatles on the cover of "Abbey Road", and everyone said, "This means Paul is dead. Paul is dead." How barefeet and an altered gate killed Paul I could never understand? Ahh, how some people love a conspiracy even when it isn't even there.

[edit on 7-1-2007 by rocknroll]

ah........the blue pill. I took the red pill. All I got was the truth.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I took the red pill. All I got was the truth.

Red pill? Well, um.......keep in mind the one's that mother gives you don't do anything at all..........especially if you're chasing rabbits.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

The swastika comes from Babylon. You are certainly free to disprove this comment.

google keywords "Swastika & Origins". I did.

I looked at 30 sights. Only one claimed there were swastikas on female statues from modern day iraq, dated to 3,000 B.C., however they provided no evidence for this claim. Here are some of the closest responses i found for the origins of the swastika:

Supportive Source/Link:
www.archaeometry.org...

"The origin of the swastika is lost in the night of ages. .... The oldest swastika I know of is depicted on a ceramic vessel from Bylany, Bohemia and belongs to the 6th millennium BC."

Supportive Source/Link:
www.answers.com...

"Bylany is a Danubian Neolithic settlement located around 65 km (40 miles) east of Prague in the Czech region of Bohemia. Excavation began in 1956 and work continues today."

Supportive Source/Link:
rmhassinger.iweb.bsu.edu...

"The exact origin – which ancient culture was the first to use the symbol – is unknown."

Supportive Source/Link:
www.sngpl.com...

"the origins of Swastika are lost in the misty realms of the past and they can only be guessed.."

Supportive Source/Link:
en.wikipedia.org...

" The motif seems to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia. The swastika is used in religious and civil ceremonies in India.... The symbol was introduced to Southeast Asia by Hindu kings ... The symbol has an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures. It was also adopted independently by several Native American cultures."

Supportive Source/Link:
www.locksley.com...

"... after it's real origins were lost in folklore"

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher


Supportive Source/Link:
www.locksley.com...

"... after it's real origins were lost in folklore"

Exactly, it't real origins are lost in folklore. And yet here we go again, why is it all over the world, just like the flood stories. 600 different cultures have flood stories. Why do they say the Swastika comes from the sun wheel.......which is the cross of Baal by the way.

It is such an ancient symbol that its true origins are lost in pre-History, but I feel that the above -speculation- is probably hitting pretty close to the mark.


Now, let's get a little more specific:


The symbol is pretty much universal throughout the world. It is found in such diverse cultures as:

China
India
Japan
Tibet
Greece
Gnostic
Hittite
Jains
Egypt
Ancient Crete
Ancient Troy (level of excavation unknown)
Scotland (Picts)
Ancient Ireland
Kickapoo Indians
Tennessee and Ohio Indian burial mounds (Hopewell Mound)
Pottawatomie Indians
Hopi Indians
Zuni Indians
Old Norse
Brigantes of Ancient Britain, who used it as a symbol of the goddess Bride.
Plains Indians (who were originally -farmers- until they were pushed into the Plains by neighboring tribes, and then became nomadic)
Central American Maya and Aztec (two -very- different cultures!)
Buddhist (found on the soles of the Buddha's feet, in statuary)
Found in the Catacombs of Rome (see Crux Dissimulata)
Pre-Hejira Arabs
Seen by the author on a quilt pattern (age and pattern name unknown)
A variant with only three arms is used on the Isle of Man, and is known as a "triskeleon." It is usually represented as three -legs- and thus suggests the act of running. This may be a hold-over from its associations with the goddess Bridget (Bride). the symbol of St. Bridget's Cross becomes -much- more interesting at this point, and might be considered a swasticka-variant.
Depicted within a triangle symbolizing the goddess Astarte in some parts of the Ancient Middle East.
The Manichaeans
Ancient Rome, where it was a symbol of Jupiter Tonans and Pluvius

FYI - The goddess Astarte is none other than Semiramis of Babylon.

Strange we can find the same Swastika in American Indian culture and the Aztecs and Mayans of Central America. I wonder why that is. Just by chance or did it occur after the Tower of Babel.

Just another tidbit that shoots a hole in evolution for anyone that can add 2 + 2. What are the chances that man evolved all over the world and picked the Swastika as a symbol. Civilazition started in Babylon after the flood.

sun matrix:

Exactly, it't real origins are lost in folklore. And yet here we go again, why is it all over the world, just like the flood stories. 600 different cultures have flood stories. Why do they say the Swastika comes from the sun wheel.......which is the cross of Baal by the way.

alright
"600 culture" (care to back that claim up?) have a flood story
let's postulate that you're right with those figures for now
to you it's more reasonable to deduce that there was a global flood than a bunch of local floods that were merely "super-sized" in folklore?

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

www.100megsfree4.com...

British author Graham Hancock claims in his books that everything we know about ancient history is wrong. He argues that civilization didn't start in Sumeria and Egypt around 3,500 BC, but instead, was present 10,000 years before in great cities that were destroyed by cataclysm.

"We have 600 flood myths around the world," he said in an interview with a British newspaper, The Guardian

sun, graham hancock is nothing more than a story-telling pseudo-scientist

none of his claims have evidence, merely speculation

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
sun, graham hancock is nothing more than a story-telling pseudo-scientist

none of his claims have evidence, merely speculation

So are you saying that there are not 600 flood myths from all over the world?

www.talkorigins.org...

I certainly don't agree with Hancocks timeframe of 10000 years but he is right about the 600 flood myths. Is this just by accident?

I see my links are not working again.......I must be doing something wrong.

[edit on 8-1-2007 by Sun Matrix]

I'm going to agree with maddness here, Hancock's ideas simply carry little to no weight. With him, better to cite the evidence he cites, rather than cite him as authority.

But, if we are just talking about there being 600 cultures with flood stories, why, I'd say if anything that that is an under-estimate. Its a well attested to occurance, almost all cultures have a flood story, usually involving one guy or the ancestors of the tribe telling the story, surviving the flood on a boat of some sort, often because of a communication from the gods, and carrying things needed to repopulate the world afterwards.

Nakash
WHY the hell would this man, the supposed leader of Christendom do this? WHY?!

He's at the site of teh Sermon on the Mount. Why the hell shouldn't the pope go there????? If jesus cursed the town, whats it matter today? Anyone that is associated with it is cursed? So.....is jesus cursed then for speaking at it? Odd blasphemy you are promoting there.

Sun Matrix
The swastika comes from Babylon. You are certainly free to disprove this comment.

There are swatstikas that pre-date babylon.

The motif seems to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia.

I have read of neolithic stattuettes of birds, wings outstretched, with swastikas emblazoned on its wings, from the neolithic.

The cross symbol for Shamash from Babylon that you are thinking of is...the cross.
altreligion.about.com...

This page has a citation that gives some support for it being in the area of babylon (but, again, before the city of babylon existed. However, it also notes that the cross is found there then too.

uplink.space.com...
The swastika and the cross, common on stamps and plaques, were religious or magical symbols as in Babylonia and Elam in the earliest prehistoric period, but preserve that character also in modern India as elsewhere." V. Childe Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1, page 240.

I think it would be silly to say that the cross, therefore, is a product of babylon, and that jesus is nothing but a babylon myth. The cross is merely two bars intersecting. Its easy enough to pop up anywhere, without any need for an original inventor, who then went everywhere to show it to everyone. Same with the swatstika. It is just a spiral.

First, you are free to disprove that the Pope wears the cross of Baal on his vestments

Are you talking about a swatstika or a cross here?

You can't disprove either point.

Since the pope doesn't worship baal, pretty clearly, its not the cross of baal. The adoption of a symbol is utterly meaningless. Even IF the devil invented the swatstika, and no one, anywhere, originally, could've came up with it on their own, and it only exists everywhere because of the devil's work, what does it matter? The people using it aren't worshiping the devil. If they are worshipping christ, then what does it matter if there is a swatstika?
Are you saying that the swastika and devil are more powerful than christ, and that a christian who accepts christ as personal saviour is thrown into the lake of fire, beause there was a swastika associated with them??????

Strange we can find the same Swastika in American Indian culture and the Aztecs and Mayans of Central America. I wonder why that is.

For the same reason that we find the cross in every culture. Because its a basic, common, easily created symbol.
It ends up having the perception of great power, because it has great appeal. Sometimes its The Sun, turning in the sky, sometimes its The Labyrinth, dark and turning and mystyerious, etc etc. Some times its a symbol of good luck, sometimes a symbol of godly majesty, etc. Its got different meanings in different cultures. Its in all cultures, because its a basic symbol.

As far as the flood story, there are flood stories in every culture because there are floods everywhere. That doesn't mean that there was only One flood at one time and it was everywhere.

[edit on 8-1-2007 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I certainly don't agree with Hancocks timeframe of 10000 years but he is right about the 600 flood myths. Is this just by accident?

well, the 600 flood myths part isn't HIS claim
it's just a statistic on how many different cultures have a myth about some sort of big flood

HIS claims are speculative

I don't think that the argument being made is just that there are 600+/- flood stories.

I think the underlying argument is that they are all basically the same, just different names and the such. There is a flood, someone builds an ark or ship or something big that floats, the supreme being of that religion told the builder of the ark or ship about the flood beforehand to save them, they float for awhile, then the rain stops and they land somewhere.

Thats kinda the argument i guess. I don't agree with alot of what Hancock says, but i do like the fact that he at least tries to answer some of these questions that noone will make a serious attempt at. He points out many things and many trivialities and some basically good ideas. Thats what writers like him are good for, they make people think and seek answers.

I don't think he's right on a lot of stuff, but he is definitely hitting on something.

Originally posted by soshootme
I don't think he's right on a lot of stuff, but he is definitely hitting on something.

i understand what he's "hitting on"
but it's not really a logical thing to hit on

the best explaination is that the various flood myths just shar coincidental differences or are the same through plagerism (ie we know that the judaeo-christian flood myth borrows heavily from the epic of gilgamesh)

most ancient cultures lived near water
when you live near water, you get floods
eventually you have 1 really big flood, much bigger than the rest
the story gets passed down
over the next few generations, it becomes the story of a global flood

my explaination is quite a bit less intricate than a global flood
therefore, under the rules of ockham's razor, it's more likely to be true

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

(ie we know that the judaeo-christian flood myth borrows heavily from the epic of gilgamesh)

(ie we know that Gilgamesh is Nimrod of Babylon)