Secrets of the Freemasons on NGeo (5-15-2006)

Originally posted by Cug
Oh and a pentagram with 3 out of 5 lines incomplete is not complete. If you got shorted 3 hours out of every 5 on your paycheck, I don't think you would call it complete.

Take it from an occultist... we are very anal about our symbols, if there was some sort of occult reason to put a pentagram in the Washington streets it would be damn near perfect.

I'm only proposing that the pentagram is there on purpose. I'm not saying it's complete. My question is why is it incomplete? Your paycheck analogy is a bit of a stretch, but let's continue it shall we? If I was shorted on 3 out of 5 hours, I'd ask "why am I not getting all of my money?" The response would be, because of taxes, that's why. I'm asking why is there 1 line segment missing.

Your being an occultist honestly doesn't persuade me to your side in the least. You may be an occultist, but you're not Illuminati, so your interpretation of the pentagram's meaning, and position in this instance doesn't enter into it. The same way waving an American Flag right side up, and upside down have very different meanings. If you weren't familiar with the upside down flags specific use, it would be meaningless to you, and you'd probably pass on by.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'm only proposing that the pentagram is there on purpose. I'm not saying it's complete. My question is why is it incomplete?

Well considering the fact that it isn't a geometrically correct pentagram in the first place, it very well could have been coincidental, or at least if it was on purpose there is a more reasonable explanation for it. Consider military defensability, for example. Geometry is an important thing in Masonry, and I think if it was intentional it would be geometrically correct.

Your being an occultist honestly doesn't persuade me to your side in the least.

If someone makes the argument that occultists somehow worked this into the plans, then it stands to reason that their input might be of some value.

You may be an occultist, but you're not Illuminati, so your interpretation of the pentagram's meaning, and position in this instance doesn't enter into it.

And how do you know what he is or isn't? Hell, he could be a baby-eating-shape-shifting reptilian and you would be none the wiser. Peace Cug.

Besides, if we are talking Masonry, the pentagram (or 5-pointed star; doesn't necessarily have to be a pentagram) is emblematical of the Blazing Star. It refers to the 5 points of fellowship. That's all I'll say about it, so please don't ask me to elaborate. The only other thing I've heard (and this is not spelled out in ritual or lectures) is that it represented the North Star that led the Magi to where Baby Jesus was born.

It's anybody's guess, really.

Originally posted by Naphtalite
Well considering the fact that it isn't a geometrically correct pentagram in the first place, it very well could have been coincidental, or at least if it was on purpose there is a more reasonable explanation for it. Consider military defensability, for example. Geometry is an important thing in Masonry, and I think if it was intentional it would be geometrically correct.

The angles may not ALL be equal, but they are most definately symetrical, save for that one segment. This doesn't seem like a coincidence, especially since it's line of symetry is perfectly aligned with the Washington monument and the white house.

If someone makes the argument that occultists somehow worked this into the plans, then it stands to reason that their input might be of some value.

All I meant was that the term "occultist" is a very broad term, and many different belief systems can fit into this term. It would be like someone saying that they are Christian, and not mentioning a denomination. A snake handler's symbolism would be very different than a Catholics wouldn't you agree?

Besides, if we are talking Masonry, the pentagram (or 5-pointed star; doesn't necessarily have to be a pentagram) is emblematical of the Blazing Star. It refers to the 5 points of fellowship.

We are talking about Masonry, and possibly Illuminati ties. I've come to realize that what they say on national TV isn't always the truth. That's why I'm hard pressed to believe that a symetrical pentagram with it's line of symetry perfectly aligned with the Whitehouse and Washington Monument isn't just a happy coincidence.

You are right though, it's anyones guess, except for the few out there who are drinking the baby blood.

Edit: Out of curiosity, what possible military purpose could it serve?

[edit on 18-5-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Out of curiosity, what possible military purpose could it serve?

Nowadays? Not much. What with all the explosives and people hijacking airplanes and nuclear devices, the right people with the right equipment can hit just about anything they want, if someone doesn't get them first.

But, at the time this particular design was produced, the angles and fields of fire could prove advantageous to defending forces. It was all cavalry, artillery and infantry. No planes, etc. Just an idea, but still that seems more reasonable to me than some evil intent. That or the simple fact that masonic symbolism (nothing eeeeeevil, I assure you) could have been a consideration, given the history, and the fact that alot of the people that were involved were Freemasons. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me for L'Enfant to have given it a Masonic flavor.

Plus, one must consider that the layout of buildings was much different then than it is today.

Hey I'm no expert, and I could be wrong... it's happened once before; I'd just rather consider the rational explanations before the radical.

If that were the case, then cavalry at the corner of 18th and M st. would have a tough time getting to the rotary at 22nd and Pennsylvania Ave. Why wouldn't they continue the pentagram in full in that case.

to be perfectly honest, I don't see what is so irrational about thinking that the pentagram is there on purpose, and that we aren't being told the true purpose. How often have we been told things by our leaders that turn out to be so far from th truth it's laughable. If the arguement for the pentagram being there is "it's just a coincidence" or "it's unfinished by one segment, so it means absolutely nothing" I'm not going to buy it for a second.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
to be perfectly honest, I don't see what is so irrational about thinking that the pentagram is there on purpose, and that we aren't being told the true purpose. How often have we been told things by our leaders that turn out to be so far from th truth it's laughable. If the arguement for the pentagram being there is "it's just a coincidence" or "it's unfinished by one segment, so it means absolutely nothing" I'm not going to buy it for a second.

And I’m not selling. Like I said before, I wasn’t there, I don’t know for sure. It’s really anyone’s guess as to the true purpose, or lack thereof, of the designers. I’m not looking for an argument; merely to attempt to investigate the more reasonable explanations.

What do you speculate the purpose to be? Besides the obvious thought that the Illuminati or the Masons (or the Illuminati via the Masons ) put it there. I mean if they did put it there, why? What purpose would it serve? In some forms of Magick, the pentagram is a protective symbol. The Satanist angle doesn’t really apply, because the pentagram did not have that connotation until Anton LaVey started his Satanic Church in the 1960’s (I think it was the 60’s... going from memory and I don’t remember the exact date).

So what practical purpose can you see for it? Surely you have some ideas? Even far-fetched ones... lay it on me. I’m interested in what you think.

Apparently, some traditions of Wicca, primarily those of old European origin, use the inverted pentagram to represent a second degree initiate. The inverted pentagram became used by American Satanists only very recently, like you said. If that is true, then it may be possible that it represents a similar meaning in Freemasonry. This may not be made publicly known because of the extreme secracy of some Masonic groups traditions. If it does represent some level of initiation, then it being unfinished may be another symbolic gesture. Maybe representing someone who hasn't fully reached a certain level.

I also find it interesting that each point on the pentagram represents a key element. Those being Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. The unfinished side may be a point that is left unfinished to remove one element from the pentagram's meaning. nfortunately, without understanding which point means which, I couldn't tell you what element is being omited.

I'm just throwing this one out there. It makes more sense to me than it being an unseen coincidence.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If that is true, then it may be possible that it represents a similar meaning in Freemasonry. This may not be made publicly known because of the extreme secracy of some Masonic groups traditions. If it does represent some level of initiation, then it being unfinished may be another symbolic gesture. Maybe representing someone who hasn't fully reached a certain level.

The pentagram makes an appearance in the Third Degree of the York Rite and the 28° of the Scottish Rite.

In the Third Degree it is said to represent the five points of fellowship. In the 28°, it is used as it was by the Pythagoreans, i.e., as a symbol of the elements.

I knew it wasn't just a co-inkydink. Whether it was Illuminati or not, the pentagram is there, and was intentional. (or so I believe)

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If it does represent some level of initiation, then it being unfinished may be another symbolic gesture. Maybe representing someone who hasn't fully reached a certain level.

But why? I can see the 5 points of fellowship reference as being relevant to the ideals of the time and the people who were involved. I'm curious as to what makes you think it must be more than that.

The unfinished side may be a point that is left unfinished to remove one element from the pentagram's meaning. Unfortunately, without understanding which point means which, I couldn't tell you what element is being omited.

But why? Again, what practical purpose could it serve, other than to be a symbol of Masonic ideas, which isn't a bad thing? Why elements? Why there? Who does it benefit and how?

[edit on 19-5-2006 by Naphtalite]

Who knows, maybe it's there as a means of protection. Maybe it's there to effect certain energies in the city, or maybe it's just a big tag saying "28th degree mason in the house". I was just hoping for a better explaination by the experts than coincidence or unintentional because it's not finished.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Who knows, maybe it's there as a means of protection. Maybe it's there to effect certain energies in the city, or maybe it's just a big tag saying "28th degree mason in the house".

But the ritual for the 28° ML mentioned was written by Bro. Albert Pike, loooong after the streets of DC were designed and built. Probably the only Masonic reference it could have been at that time is that to the 5 points of fellowship, which I assure you is nothing nefarious. I say probably because I'm not sure if there were rites at that time in history and in this country that employed the pentagram as a symbol. Could be that there was, I don't know.

I was just hoping for a better explaination by the experts than coincidence or unintentional because it's not finished.

Well, really that depends on who you consider an expert. My opinion is that the pentagram is not geometrically true (which is important, in that context) nor completed (which is equally important), so the means of protection or generating energy theories lose some potency for me.

I just can't find any explanation that holds water. After a closer look, even my military defense idea is weak at best. I just really don't know. Perhaps it will always be a mystery. People will, however, continue to make speculations and theories that, when scrutinized, fall apart under the weight of sheer incompatibility of timelines, etc.

I agree with you that it must have been intentional, but as to what purpose I have no idea.

[edit on 19-5-2006 by Naphtalite]

I found this interesting,

Seal and amulet of Emperor Constantine I

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
The pentacle's use in the City Seal of Jerusalem has led to its confusion with the variously titled Seal, Shield, or Star of Solomon. Early Christians attributed the pentagram to the Five Stigmata of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity plus that of the two natures of Christ. According to Biedermann, from then until mediaeval times, it was a lesser-used Christian symbol. Its form implied truth, religious mysticism and the work of Creator. Roman Emperor Constantine I, after his defeat of Maxentius and the issuance of the Edict of Milan in 312CE, ascribed his success to his conversion to Christianity and incorporated the pentagram, one point down, into his seal and amulet.

Notice the pentagram is uneven with the point down. It's possible that the symbolism in the DC pentagram is in some way similar to the seal of Constantine. It could be representative truth, religious mysticism , and the work of the creator.

AS for the Missing line, it points southwest. Would it's direction be an indication of it's meaning?

I watched the program last night. I found it to be made up mostly of half truths,
partial quotes, and a lot of unsubstantiated rumor and speculation. I think NG
like the Hysterical channel has outsourced their research and editorial work to
The Star and National Enquirer.

Well at least they didnt use David Icke and Jack Chick as experts.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
AS for the Missing line, it points southwest. Would it's direction be an indication of it's meaning?

I dunno; if it were pointing to the Northeast, then maybe...

I see they cut the bit where a non mason talked about his experiences of victimisation. The power...hee...hee..

We should have more party political broadcasts, it's time the public knew how nice freemasons are, as they get so much bad press on here.

Does anyone know if Freemasons are going to set up a political party, cause i'd join. Or is that we have so much power without running for government?
I'm confused.