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President Bush to Militarize Border?

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posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
What did your ancestors do to the natives?


A sad story but we must move on.



What are the illegals now doing to us?
Taking jobs that Americans won't do, to feed their families back home.
Oh shock and horror.


Yes, shock and horror! Read the above posts. We are talking about many millions of people from the bordering nation we are somehow supposed to absorb.




Before all this media hype did you even give illegal emigration a thought?


Of course! There were plenty of those in my area even 15 years ago. You can't miss them, really.



What do you think about European illegals, or Asian? You all seem to focus on Mexicans and you wonder why ppl see the problem as a racial one?


This allegation was answered by somebody else above... You are totally wrong here. Mexicans are simply the largest group of illegals, by far. You know that. It's not a "focus", it's a statement of facts.




posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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Simple question:

When I came back from Denmark last year, I had to take my shoes and shirt off to be searched. I was born here, have a valid passport and own 3 houses here.

When Illegals come here, you want them to pass unhindered? Because that is what they are doing?

No checks and no control at all. All people do is complain about Homeland Security not doing anything, yet when the President tries to do something, well that is wrong too.

You can not have security and open borders. No matter what you may argue different, you are wrong.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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You're pissed about illegals using your hospitals to get treated for free?

Wow, do you people have hearts? Rather let them die back in their own country? Yeesh.

And yes, this a racially motivated issue. I rarely hear anyone saying anything about massive influxes of Asian or European immigrants, it's Hispanics. They're the ones who are targetted, they're the ones who are hated, they're the ones who you are desperately trying to keep out.

Poor, desperate people willing to DIE to get to the US and take advantage of some of the best things that North America has to offer. Things that we take for granted. They want to work, earn money, and raise their kids. Safely.

Me, I have no problem with paying taxes to help out the underprivileged. That's the difference, I guess.

If I know some of my tax money is going toward helping desperate people who are at the lowest rung of the social ladder, even here illegally, I will glady pay extra.

Because I have a little extra, and because maybe one day I will need help from my fellow Canadians, and fellow human beings. So someone gets medicine instead of me having an extra pint at the pub. I can live with that. I guess some can't.

And because I prefer to value the similarities I have with all my brothers and sisters, rather than focus on the differences.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:40 PM
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This may only be a stopgap measure to tweak his numbers, but he is heading in the right direction. As someone previously stated, National Guardsmen do have full-time jobs and can't possibly sustain a presence on the border. I have a funny feeling we may be seeing a new military wing, or a more militarized Border Patrol. That's just my opinion.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
You're pissed about illegals using your hospitals to get treated for free?
Wow, do you people have hearts? Rather let them die back in their own country? Yeesh.


Jacomo, we could be building giant barges and bringing people form all over the world to administer fist aid or more complex treatment. In truth we won't do it even if it's morally right.



And yes, this a racially motivated issue. I rarely hear anyone saying anything about massive influxes of Asian or European immigrants, it's Hispanics.


It's the numbers game, dude. Mexicans easily outnumber everybody else. What's hard to understand?



They're the ones who are targetted, they're the ones who are hated, they're the ones who you are desperately trying to keep out.


You see, the fabric of society can only absorb so much. I don't want to live in Mexico for reasons that would take me probably too long to explain. I just don't. If Mexico comes to my backyard, I don't like it.



Poor, desperate people willing to DIE to get to the US and take advantage of some of the best things that North America has to offer. Things that we take for granted. They want to work, earn money, and raise their kids. Safely.


If the are willing to DIE to "take advantage" of the US, maybe they should consider dying to improve conditions in their homeland.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

You're pissed about illegals using your hospitals to get treated for free?

Wow, do you people have hearts? Rather let them die back in their own country? Yeesh.


Does Mexico or Central America not have hospitals? Or maybe we should have them go to Canada, since you have an NHS.


And yes, this a racially motivated issue. I rarely hear anyone saying anything about massive influxes of Asian or European immigrants, it's Hispanics. They're the ones who are targetted, they're the ones who are hated, they're the ones who you are desperately trying to keep out.


No it is not a racial issue, despite your best efforts to make it so. That way, you don't have to focus on the real issues.

And I don't know how many times people have to say, color does not matter. Whay can you not accept that?


Poor, desperate people willing to DIE to get to the US and take advantage of some of the best things that North America has to offer. Things that we take for granted. They want to work, earn money, and raise their kids. Safely.


Well then let them go through the legal processes that we have set up.


Me, I have no problem with paying taxes to help out the underprivileged. That's the difference, I guess.


Excuse me. Are you implying that Americans are unwilling to help out the underprivileged? I take offense to that. We are the most generous people on earth.


And because I prefer to value the similarities I have with all my brothers and sisters, rather than focus on the differences.


Try all you want to make this a racial issue. Your ignorance is showing.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo



?! Some of these people are already more highly educated than a lot of Americans. They just don’t speak English quite as well.

What always astounds me is that people seem to think that these illegals are doing crime, and just generally bad people.

A lot of them could teach Americans what “family values” actually means.

As a test: come to Canada, work 14 hour days for 10$ a day, and send 8$ of that to your family back home in the USA while you have to sleep in the dirt and eat one meal a day and see how long it is before you go running back home. These people have it pretty damn hard for the most part.

They’re almost exclusively here to “follow the American dream” and they have the same hopes and dreams and aspirations as you and me. Except, unfortunately for them, they are darker skinned and more easy to pick out of a crowd, for the xenophobes.

And the American South sure is pretty xenophobic.

We are often afraid of what we don’t know, and the less we know about everything, the more we are constantly afraid of The Other.



Next step will be to tear down the Statue of Liberty?


Or just edit it? Who wants tired, hungry masses, right?

Kinda funny that America touts itself as the best country in the world, the most freedom-loving, life-affirming, Christian country on the planet, and yet YOU CAN'T COME IN!!!!!


Watch us from afar and listen to us say how incredible this country is. But get too close and we'll put a cap in your ass, non-whitey. Because it's ours.

Pfft.

You can have it.


Jakomo, you need to ease up there a bit. I love the passion but your statements so far do not endear you to anyone. I am quite sure you can make your point without ad hominem attacks and sweeping generalizations.

BTW Not saying I disagree or agree with ya.



[edit on 15-5-2006 by Imperium Americana]



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Perfect, I totally agree with putting up a Fence to keep them out. This is totally the right thing to do, morally? No, of course not.

The fact of the matter is that when you have millions of mexicans fleeing from their OWN country straight over here when other immigrants have to go through security check points just to gain legal rights to even begin to experience the American prosperity, well that's just wrong. Me, my family is from Europe, I was not born here, my family was not born here, we have no relatives here, we are the only ones of our entire family line in America. I have been completely absorbed by American Culture and am Assimiliated, maybe not my parents, but I am, I plan on gaining Citizenship and eventually serving as a pilot in the US Air Force. Lets me tell you that there is no greater feeling than that of wanting to protect your nation.

That includes keeping all the illegals out. They are a drain on society. Their numbers prove it. The fact that America has sustained a remotely even stable economy with the flood of immigrants that have been coming here in the past 30 years is amazing, just goes to show America is amazing. However there is only so much any nation, yes even the US can sustain. Something needs to be done, I wouldn't be suprised if 2/3 of the Mexican population make an attempt to cross the border; things are so bad there. The problem is that if we let them continue coming over here because it's "morally correct", we'll be killing the US and the privilages that the legal immigrants and others wanting to become legal immigrants would recieve.

The citizens and legals must put their own health and future ahead of what's morally right, in the past America has tried to do what was morally correct, maybe not domestically, but in foreign diplomacy, everyone remembers 1993 Somalia correct? I was too young to remember it, but I've read stories, seen the film, read the articles.

Maybe America should stick to looking after itself. This stance would also show that I am not for the Second Gulf War, but that's not to be discussed here, not the place. But my ultimate stance is that if the illegals want to come here badly enough, they should do the work to get here, not get here first and then do the work where in the future they can slack off and become a bigger drain. By coming over in mass and in the numbers they are coming in; it's doing no good for the anyone at all, not even themselves. The more they populate areas, the worse the areas get. It's like an infectious disease.

So I say throw a fence on that border hell, Double Layer it! Barb it, electricute it. Send troops to the border. Do anything in our power to keep them at bay. This... This is a conflict domestically, just like crime, drugs, anything else domestically, it is a problem and a conflict that needs to be resolved.

Just my two cents.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 15-5-2006 by ShatteredSkies]



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Before all this media hype did you even give illegal emigration a thought?

You are all being wound up, don't fall for the hype. Stop being so insecure, your own government is far more of a threat to you, your family, your safety and your finances than any illegal immigrant.

What do you think about European illegals, or Asian? You all seem to focus on Mexicans and you wonder why ppl see the problem as a racial one?



yes i saw the writing on the wall in my town starting about 5 years ago and knew that it was going to be a serious problem

dude, enough with the anti government rant, youre starting to scare me. perhaps you should return to the local militia compound in northern michigan if the government is so evil...

hispanic illegals outnumber all other illegals combined by 1000x minimum. like others have said, its the numbers game. the only reason you are seeing it now is because there are SOOO many of them that they are affecting everyones lives. i probably wouldnt mind all that much when (and i did say when) they legalize all of them as long as they all learn english, take down all the spanish signs, assimiliate into american culture, pay taxes, pay their shares into the system and adhere to the community rules. A new rule also needs to be instituted in that you cant send more than $100 a week to a foreign country and require a state or national id to send it. No reason for us to prop up the economy of 3rd world countries when that money should be kept here in american pockets.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 06:13 PM
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...
I'm kind of divided on this issue. I mean, we've got these mexican people who have it so terrible in their country that they have to come here and work the #tiest of jobs (Jobs that no american would take) at the #tiest pay, live in the #tiest of conditions, and then send most of the money back to their families in mexico.

Yet, if they want to come in and work so bad, why not get a green card? I mean, it's not that hard. We've got a foreign exchange student at my school, and I asked her about it one day. She said you just had to sign a few papers and take a few tests to make sure you didn't have any diseases. THAT'S ALL. Why is that so hard?



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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even the lapdog media is calling this for what it is, a suck up to his ever dwindling base. Knowing his track record he will say he's going to do this and once the media eye turns to something else, reneg.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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Ride the Storm, it's easy for people who can actually afford it. Getting a green card does require payments, and it's not like you get it as soon as your get your photo taken. There is this whole entire beaurocratic system that needs to take place before anyone can get a green card, they need to be screened, checked through security, their papers need to check out(granted they have papers, which they need). It also takes atleast 9-12 months to get the permenant card in the mail(granted if you a legit place of residence).

There is more to getting a green card than just signing on the dotted line(when that in itself might be more than what some people are capable of doing) and getting a shot or two. Believe me, I have my greencard, had one for over 14 years. My family all have their own greencards.

Shattered OUT...



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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Three cheers for President Bush for finally stepping up to the plate regarding the border issue. He's about six years too late by my reckoning, but better late than never.


The Guard has a unique dual mission, with both Federal and State responsibilities. During peacetime, the Governor through the State Adjutant General commands Guard forces. The Governor can call the Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, drought, and civil disturbances, to name a few. In addition, the President of the United States can activate the National Guard to participate in Federal missions. Examples of this are the many Guard units that have deployed to support operations in Bosnia. When federalized, Guard units are commanded by the Commander in Chief of the theatre in which they are operating.

www.globalsecurity.org...



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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Here is a quote from CNN on his speech.

Will temporarily deploy about 6000 National Guardsmen to the border to provide logistical support. Apparently they will not be doing any law enforcing just surveilance, road building and of course wall building.


Bush called for the short-term deployment of up to 6,000 National Guard troops in a supporting role along the U.S.-Mexico border.

"We are a nation of laws, and we must enforce those laws," Bush said.
The Guard force Bush proposed would remain under state control, although the federal government is expected to pick up the cost.

"The Guard will assist the Border Patrol by operating surveillance systems, analyzing intelligence, installing fences and vehicle barriers, building patrol roads and providing training," Bush said.

"Guard units will not be involved in direct law enforcement activities --- that duty will be done by the Border Patrol."

"This initial commitment of Guard members would last for a period of one year. After that, the number of Guard forces will be reduced as new Border Patrol agents and new technologies come online.


www.cnn.com...

Wonder which states these national guardspeople will come from. Border states or the northeast, bible belt? Security is needed granted. But I wonder what the cost will really end up being.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by valkeryie
Wonder which states these national guardspeople will come from. Border states or the northeast, bible belt? Security is needed granted. But I wonder what the cost will really end up being.



From what I could gather from the Lou Dobbs et el recap they will come from all states at a projected cost of 1.2 billion.

They also dismissed Vah's biggest fear which was she thought, they would be taking reservists from their full times jobs, which appears not to be the case they will only take them for their normal two week summer camp training sessions.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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What is the real question is what is the underlieing motivation of Bush. Personally I think that there is something more going on that what is apparent on the surface. The President is determined to fund and increase security on the border. The main problem is personnel. What I believe is that alot of what is going on is that Bush will use the excuse to ask for a budget increase to pay for this. However, what would be cheaper in the long run, increasing the budget, to get an increase of security along the borders, when alot of the Govenors of those states most affected, are against such actions? When you look at how thin the military is spred out, I think what you are looking at is a compromise where he looks and says, well the military is spred out and inorder to increase the security of the border we need more personnel. Since it would take a bit of time to hire more border partol and ins agents. It would be simple to increase the number of military personnel. Hence I think the president will try and get a resolution to reinstate the draft and use the Border security and the tensions with Iran, our involvement in the middle east, Iraq and Afaganistan as a means to sell it to congress. After all it would cost billions in the long run, but spend half and conscript a military to increase troops is more likely.

Well that is my thoughts.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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I have only two problems with the Presidents plan, as outline in his speech. One, he did not specify how we would ensure that the legal migrant workers return to be sent back to their nation of origin after their 5 year permits expire. My concern is that they will simply never return and blend in with the population like the “catch and release” detainees. And second, I think the number of NG troops deployed is too low, it should of at least been doubled. However overall I agreed with this plan and hope that it is implemented and that it’s not just political BS.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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He's six years too late because it was no issue up until now (the election year).

July 29, 2005:

Congress rejects the recommendation of Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner that the ideo of volunteer citizen Border Patrols was worth exploring. The Senate had just...


reneged on its promise to hire 2,000 more Border Patrol agents, instead voting to hire only half of that requested figure. Senators also failed to fulfill its commitment to provide 8,000 new detention beds, adding just more than 2,000 new detention beds.

"The Border Patrol now releases 90 percent of the people they catch through voluntary repatriation," said Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona. "Ninety percent, my friends. We don't have enough detention facilities. We don't have enough beds."

And since October, more than 70,000 illegal aliens from countries other than Mexico have been stopped and later released into our country. Talk about a homeland security problem.


www.cnn.com...

Funny how now that we're in an election year Bush has declared...

'Catch and release' of illegal immigrants will end

www.cnn.com...

Seems the recent poll may have been paid off or jacked with or maybe polls are worthless in the first place (like we found out in the 2000 election), because contrary to what we're being spoonfed today, about 2 weeks ago:


More than three-quarters of Americans favor allowing illegal immigrants who have spent many years in the United States to apply for citizenship, according to a poll conducted for CNN by Opinion Research Corp.


www.cnn.com...

hmmm...that's a swift and odd turn-around, isn't it?

July 5, 2005 - Bush doesn't give a flying tamale about the problem on the southern border:


The Department of Homeland Security has said it will send more than 500 additional Border Patrol agents to Arizona this year to help stop the flow of illegal aliens into the United States.

However, most of these additional agents are being transferred from other border states at a time when the federal government should be hiring as many new agents as possible. Not so coincidentally, the move came two days before a concerned group of private citizens was to start patrolling the most porous stretch of the southern border with Mexico.

The Bush administration's failure to enforce immigration laws that would slow the invasion of illegal aliens has led this group to take action. Starting Friday, leaders of the Minuteman Project, a self-proclaimed neighborhood watch group, will spread more than 1,000 volunteers along the Arizona border in an effort to report suspected illegal aliens to the Border Patrol.

In response to the Minuteman Project, President Bush said last week, "I am against vigilantes in the United States of America. I am for enforcing law in a rational way."

But there's a reason these so-called vigilantes exist: The federal government refuses to address seriously the increasingly important issues of border security and illegal immigration.

There's tremendous irony in the president's declaration that it's the Border Patrol's job to enforce laws in a rational way. In his budget, the president provided for 210 additional Border Patrol agents this year, when it's been mandated that 2,000 were needed.


www.cnn.com...

February 3, 2005 - Bush gets the what-for from Republicans for...


"Until President Bush tells us he is willing to do everything possible to stop illegal immigrants from crossing our borders -- including the commitment of military assets to the task," Tancredo told the AP, "I can only assume the worst with regard to his motives.

"When the president tries to make us believe that open borders equals national security he loses all credibility."


www.cnn.com...


December 8, 2004 - Congress prepares to battles George Bush in their attempts to get tighter border controls. The president opposes it.


Despite pressure from President Bush, the bill's other main opponent, Wisconsin Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner voted against the measure. While the bill does contain some provisions to tighten the borders, such as increasing the number of border patrol and immigration enforcement agents, Sensenbrenner wanted to add still tougher language -- prohibiting illegal immigrants from obtaining drivers' licenses.

"The president is wrong about this, as he's been wrong for a long time about the need to do something about our borders," Tancredo said. "He considers them two separate topics. And this is incredible that anybody who stands in front of the American public as often as he has, and says, 'I'm doing everything possible to protect you,' does not consider the borders and border security as important in that task."

Yet, it does appear that border control will come before Congress. CNN Congressional producer Ted Barrett reported on Tuesday that Rep. David Dreier, R-California, a member of the 9-11 conference committee, said House Republican leaders and President Bush have committed to adding key immigration provisions that didn't make it into the intelligence reform bill to the first "must-pass" bill next year.

Those provisions include completion of a fence on the Mexico/California border.

Tancredo also said that more of his colleagues argued against the intelligence reform bill because of the immigration provisions than other issues. "This is a deep division that is growing deeper every minute," Tancredo said. "And the president is going to pay a price for this later with legislation."

So while President Bush may have avoided a political embarrassment this time with the passage of the intelligence reform bill, significant challenges await him.



www.cnn.com...

January 16, 2004 - nothing had been accomplished to improve patrolling the border in efforts to prevent terrorists entering:


Extensive portions of the country's 5,525-mile border with Canada and 1,989-mile border with Mexico have no physical security and are not regularly patrolled.


www.cnn.com...

January 8, 2004 - Bush states:


Saying the United States needs an immigration system "that serves the American economy and reflects the American dream," President Bush Wednesday outlined an plan to revamp the nation's immigration laws and allow some eight million illegal immigrants to obtain legal status as temporary workers.

"Over the generations, we have received energetic, ambitious optimistic people from every part of the world. By tradition and conviction, our country is a welcoming society," he said. "Every generation of immigrants has reaffirmed the wisdom of remaining open to the talents and dreams of the world."

"As a nation that values immigration and depends on immigration, we should have immigration laws that work and make us proud," he said. "Yet, today, we do not."

Bush said the reform confronts "a basic fact of life and economics -- some of the jobs being generated in America's growing economy are jobs American citizens are not filling."

"These jobs represent a tremendous opportunity for workers from abroad who want to work and to fulfill their duties as a husband or a wife, a son or a daughter," he said.


www.cnn.com...

January 6, 2004 - Bush outlines his plan to allow illegal immigrants to keep their jobs and get to apply for permanent residency. Claiming the goal was:


to match "willing workers with willing employers," as administration officials put it.

Among Bush's allies in the debate is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Randel Johnson, a chamber vice president who deals with immigration issues, said including workers who illegally entered the United States is perhaps controversial but in his view, necessary.

"The reality of it is we are not going to deport all these people," Johnson said. "So we have to come up with something to deal with the situation. Or we can continue to put our head in the sand."


www.cnn.com...

On August 11, 2003 - one of the reasons Bush didn't all-out endorce Shwarzenegger in the California gubernatorial bru-ha-ha is because:


For another, Mr. Schwarzenegger's senior campaign advisers include many backers of the campaign that led to Californians approving a referendum in 1994 that barred illegal immigrants and their children from receiving public money. (A federal court later ruled the proposition unconstitutional.) The initiative was fiercely opposed by many of the Hispanic political leaders Mr. Bush is trying to recruit for his re-election effort, and the president himself, while campaigning here in 1999, signaled that he did not support it.


www.cnn.com...

Long story short - What the heck changed in the past three months?

Answer: Election year! YAY!



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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I truly ask those who defend this IDIOT to speak on this one in particular:

On August 11, 2003 - one of the reasons Bush didn't all-out endorce Shwarzenegger in the California gubernatorial bru-ha-ha is because:





For another, Mr. Schwarzenegger's senior campaign advisers include many backers of the campaign that led to Californians approving a referendum in 1994 that barred illegal immigrants and their children from receiving public money. (A federal court later ruled the proposition unconstitutional.) The initiative was fiercely opposed by many of the Hispanic political leaders Mr. Bush is trying to recruit for his re-election effort, and the president himself, while campaigning here in 1999, signaled that he did not support it.



www.cnn.com...

Please explain this severe discrepancy to me.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 09:38 PM
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This speech by the President would have never been made if his poll numbers weren't slipping and the GOP wasn't splitting into factions. The factions being, the businessmen that use cheap labor of illegals and the ultra conservatives with another agenda. This was Public Relations at its finest. Too bad it didn't work except with those that would agree with Mr. Bush even if he told them to eat their young then stand on their head and # nickles. This was a hail Mary pass that fell in the end zone.



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