Topic seems to have drifted a bit. Fact is, unless zero point energy is proven in the macro, not just the nano, you can't get something for nothing.
I don't think pure electrolysis is the answer. I still haven't seen a car that can run off a tank of water, no matter how many batteries and alternators are attached to the engine for electrolysis.
Didn't Gandhi do something with salt? After being told he couldn't mine it, he went to the sea and evaporated it. There in lies the thinking.
Water is hydrogen oxide. Hydrogen peroxide is rocket fuel. Sprayed on nickel it turns to steam violently. How about another way of splitting the water molecule? Several things have come up recently.
Molecular scientists have had decades to figure out ways to split hydrocarbons into thousands of different chemical combinations. Even though the hydrogen bond is unusually strong with oxygen, well outside the predicted norms for some reason, it can be easily broken with electricity. Notice---- not currently economical, but easy.
In my opinion, the water revolution is just waiting for someone who doesn't believe "it can't be done".

I just LOVE it when sceptics are proven wrong. Especially some of the hard core one's that doubt everything on ATS.

Reminds me of how the sceptics use to say that a horseless carriage (a car) was impossible in the 1700's and how even just before NASA, people thought u were nuts if you said we're going to the moon.

Sorry guys, you are out-numbered and proven wrong. Regardless of how much energy it takes to produce anything, the key is to get off fossil fuels and water is "The" way. BMW is comming with a nice model in 2008.

Originally posted by dominicus
I just LOVE it when sceptics are proven wrong. Especially some of the hard core one's that doubt everything on ATS....
...Sorry guys, you are out-numbered and proven wrong. Regardless of how much energy it takes to produce anything, the key is to get off fossil fuels and water is "The" way.

The problem is this:

If everyone started using this fuel, there would be a huge amount of electricity that would need to be produced (to perform the electrolysis to make that fuel from water).

...and I wouldn't be surpirsed if the oil companies start selling all of there oil to the electricity producers, thus MORE fossil fuels would end up getting used.

There may someday be a way to get more energy from water than what is put into breaking it down into hydrogen, but right now there isn't, and the guy in the OP still uses MORE energy than he produces.

back in the day of the steam engine what was the source of ignition? if the earth is 3/4 water i say bring back the steam powered cars. i would rather go 20 miles per hour than pay 4 dollars for a gallon of gas.

does anyone here know exactly, or roughyl even how much energy is requird to drill, pump, store, refine, then transport 1 gallon or litre of gasoline/pretrol to a a gas/petrol station?
im kind of curious to find out
would make an intersting comparison if nothing else

I think we know what happens here.. we run out of water.

Take a clue from bio fuels.

The Illuminati will not let us use atomic energy.

i've always thought off being able to us this for a car.. you could use the energy from the car a battery to make the gas and since the battery is always being recharged is almost free energy

Wow, am I reading an awful lot of misconceptions here.

Seems at least once every two months, someone starts a thread on HHO electrolysis, and people start posting as if they're experts, misleading everyone.

So... time for some education... again...

1 : Conservation of energy.
Yes, HHO cannot break the conservation of energy... it cannot achieve over-unity. NOTHING CAN.
Does this mean we shouldn't use it? NO.
Solar isn't over-unity... you still use that.
Wind isn't over-unity...
Nuclear isn't over-unity...
Gasoline isn't over-unity...
Nothing is over-unity... but you still use them as fuel sources.
All fuel in existence is merely the art of storing, converting/refining, and moving energy from one area to another for use. HHO is no different.

You're using electricity to acquire HHO. Trading one fuel for another. Yes, you end up with less usable energy in the end... but the point is, you can't exactly BURN electricity.

So no, you don't get free energy.
And no, it isn't worthless because of that.
Nothing gives you free energy, unless your talking financially.

The feasible use for HHO is in torches. Why? Because it's safe, it's clean, and your fuel can be made on demand!


2 : Limited supply of water

People who say this shouldn't be listened to.

When you electrolyze water into HHO, you have NOT lost matter.
When you burn it, and it recombines back into water... guess what...
YOU HAVEN'T LOST ANY WATER.
You still have the same amount of water you started off with... in fact, the re-combined water is typically CLEANER than when it was electrolyzed.

Essentially, anyone who claims we'll "Run out of water" doesn't understand what the process of electrolyzing water is, nor what happens when you burn it again.



Now, it's not just the propaganda induced nay-Sayers who need to be dealt with here. So...


3 : Running your car on water

This isn't an obvious one, so I can understand why people get misled like this. Hydrogen isn't your best option for automotive use.
Because your using electricity to obtain HHO, and at a loss... considering the weight, power storage, and power output of both electrical and hydrogen vehicles... your best option is to stick with electric vehicles.

Don't bother with the electrolysis, pressurization of fuel storage, and flow regulation, when you can simply store the energy directly in a battery, or sequential capacitor grid.


4 : Can't be real, that guy was touching a torch!

That's one of the neat little tricks you can perform with burning HHO.
You see, the reaction of the Hydrogen and Oxygen re-combining produces water. Water, coming from a pressurized source, is cold.
The torch head itself is getting cooled by the same reaction that is producing the flame a little further out from the torch head.

So yes, the torch head itself is cool to the touch. While the reaction of oxidization packs enough energy to melt and cut steel.

Remember, the flame isn't burning IN the torch head, the flame is burning AFTER the torch head.


5 : Normal people don't have enough money to do this.

WRONG.
Got a battery? Or even a power outlet you don't mind resetting the breakers on?
Got wire?
Got a bucket/bowl/anything that can hold water?
Got salt or baking soda?

Then you have what you need to produce it.

My first time making HHO was with a glass bowl, salt water, a 12V battery, and a couple of jumper cables. That's it.
The configuration is obvious too...

Pour the salt water in the bowl... clip the wires onto the battery... and toss the other ends straight into the water.
It really is that simple.

After that, over the years when I felt like it, I made more controlled versions. The last one I did back in Ottawa stored the HHO gas for future use by means of natural water pressure... same water that gets used in the electrolysis.
Used stainless steel for the electrolysis plates, as other metals corrode quickly.
Pulsed power supply.
etc.


But hey, stop making claims that it doesn't work, AND GO DO IT! I've been doing it for years just for the heck of it.
So don't try to tell me it doesn't work, lol.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by johnsky]