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Water as fuel, proof and patents!

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posted on May, 25 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
I see you didn't even make any reference to my 23 years experience in the field we are talking about on this thread..good to see you ignore some comments and bring up other with a totally twisted slant to the original comment. I'd suggest seeing a doctor as your mind seems to have a problem understanding common logic. People with your traits usually suffer from ADHD.


I see! I'm officially declared a lunatic for demanding to see how "Jumpspace" is pushing the boundaries of conservation of energy.

You know, obscure references that it somehow has to do with the immense mass of the ocean, or how "resonance" taps into nuclear energy won't do. If you have concrete physics to show how it works, I'm all ears.


Also, don't bother replying - you are now the second person to be on my filter list in 2 years due to your total ignorance and due to the fact that you haven't the intelligence to respond with any base logic.


But I will reply anyway. If you claim such superior intelligence, I'm sure you are extracting tons of energy from a pint of sewage every day. After all, there is "resonance", "ocean" and by the way, Maxwells' equations were doctored by the oil companies, right?

What a pile of rubbish.


Have a good life.


Thanks. I already am having a good life.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]




posted on May, 25 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
Why is it that a lot of people on this site are actually very ignorant sometimes?

"Can't get out more than you put in". OK, answer this one:

2) Using resonance to break the bond (very efficient)...think "resonance tanks" here too.

It's all about resonance and looking at the boundaries of "the conservation of energy"!


And just exactly how does resonance "break" a molecular bond without adding energy to it?

You still have to generate the EM wavelengths that you are using to "resonate" the bond to break it.

(for the O-H bond, that is in the IR region of the spectrum).



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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Howard, there have been some references to nuclear energy being involved in this "resonance" and the extra energy being tapped directly from the ocean, from which the molecules in your bottle came. You see, molecules talk to each other and borrow energy when needed.


I'm just trying to warn you that you are about to get a portion of knowledege way above your head, something that only a genius of the "Jumpspace" caliber was able to produce in 23 year research "in the field".



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita
Howard, there have been some references to nuclear energy being involved in this "resonance" and the extra energy being tapped directly from the ocean, from which the molecules in your bottle came. You see, molecules talk to each other and borrow energy when needed.


AHHHH, My bad, I though we were talking about the vibrational resonance of the O-H bond.







[edit on 25-5-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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AHHHH, My bad, I though we were talking about the vibrational resonance of the O-H bond.


we are talking about the electodes placed in the form of U that vibrate and splits oxigen and oxigen from the water on electical pulse. the conversation degenerated, and they swiched to something else.
Aelite dont seem to understand how the device works, he thinks for it to work you have to pump enectricity in the car engine
, how about you howard do you think the same.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
Aelite dont seem to understand how the device works, he thinks for it to work you have to pump enectricity in the car engine


That's how you intepreted it.

I understand that this is an attempt at glorified electrolysis that by magic means produces more energy, in the form of separated H2 and O2, than was put in. This is claimed to be done through resonance. And I claim this is BS.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78
Aelite dont seem to understand how the device works, he thinks for it to work you have to pump enectricity in the car engine


That's how you intepreted it.

I understand that this is an attempt at glorified electrolysis that by magic means produces more energy, in the form of separated H2 and O2, than was put in. This is claimed to be done through resonance. And I claim this is BS.

Okay I was a bit sarcastic there, but you dont really get it, your example that you gave would relate if the car was in fact running on electicity if the mottor was ran on electicity.
The car runs on fuel, and fuel is produced easy with minimal amount of power , that is what I was trying to tell you.
Yes if you put those 20 amps to the car and put it all in the engine of course, it wont even start.
Those 20 amps are used to make fuel not to move the car it's self.
It takes very little power to make fuel with this tecnology.
All of this can be sustained by the alternator, you would think the car it's self, I told you it can sustain the device it's self to porduce 20 amps on constant level not to sustain the engine but the device that is making the fuel.




[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
The car runs on fuel, and fuel is produced easy with minimal amount of power , that is what I was trying to tell you.


You keep ignoring the fact that I'm repeating over and over -- the fuel you generate out of water cannot contain more energy than was used in it's production. Let me know if you understand that point.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78
The car runs on fuel, and fuel is produced easy with minimal amount of power , that is what I was trying to tell you.


You keep ignoring the fact that I'm repeating over and over -- the fuel you generate out of water cannot contain more energy than was used in it's production. Let me know if you understand that point.

Yes you can because you dont turn electicity in to fuel , that is what you dont get, you use electicity to run the electodes, that is it, why is it so hard for you to understand? you think some how that you convert the electicity in to fuel.
All the electrode needs to constantly turn water in to hidrogen and oxigen is a 12 volt batery with 20 ampers on it.
Electricity is not converted in to fuel , water is converted in to fuel, the magic potion is water not eletricity.
The more water you have the more fuel it makes.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78
The car runs on fuel, and fuel is produced easy with minimal amount of power , that is what I was trying to tell you.


You keep ignoring the fact that I'm repeating over and over -- the fuel you generate out of water cannot contain more energy than was used in it's production. Let me know if you understand that point.

Yes you can because you dont turn electicity in to fuel , that is what you dont get, you use electicity to run the electodes, that is it, why is it so hard for you to understand? you think some how that you convert the electicity in to fuel.


Ok, the mix of hydrogen and oxygen that it used to feed the engine -- I call it fuel. Let's call it something else if you wish, like a gas mix. OK?



All the electrode needs to constantly turn water in to hidrogen and oxigen is a 12 volt batery with 20 ampers on it.


And where do these 20 amps come from? From the engine? Which runs on the gas mix? Right. So where does the energy come from?

Again, if you supply 20 amps over 120 volts, you are producing gas mix that is enough to generate 2400 watts of energy (in best case scenario). When you burn that mix in the engine, that's the output you get (in reality you get much less due to inherenet inefficiencies). But let's say you managed to burn the mix with 100% efficiency. That's enough to keep that 20 Amps going. But there is no extra to move you car


[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78
The car runs on fuel, and fuel is produced easy with minimal amount of power , that is what I was trying to tell you.


You keep ignoring the fact that I'm repeating over and over -- the fuel you generate out of water cannot contain more energy than was used in it's production. Let me know if you understand that point.

Yes you can because you dont turn electicity in to fuel , that is what you dont get, you use electicity to run the electodes, that is it, why is it so hard for you to understand? you think some how that you convert the electicity in to fuel.


Ok, the mix of hydrogen and oxygen that it used to feed the engine -- I call it fuel. Let's call it something else if you wish, like a gas mix. OK?



All the electrode needs to constantly turn water in to hidrogen and oxigen is a 12 volt batery with 20 ampers on it.


And where do these 20 amps come from? From the engine? Which runs on the gas mix? Right. So where does the energy come from?

Again, if you supply 20 amps over 120 volts, you are producing gas mix that is enough to generate 2400 watts of energy (in best case scenario). When you burn that mix in the engine, that's the output you get (in reality you get much less due to inherenet inefficiencies). But let's say you managed to burn the mix with 100% efficiency. That's enough to keep that 20 Amps going. But there is no extra to move you car


[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]

That is because you convert the electicity in fuel.
Okay try a different aproch, think of the electicity that you use for the device like something static, electicity for example is used on the TV, it's not like the more electicity you have the more chanels you have? does your tv work better with more electicity? no it has a fixed voltage and it will operate at that level, those 20 amps are not turned in to fuel, think of those 20 amps in terms of a digital photo device, you need more memory rather than more electicity to take more pictures, the 20 amps do not convert in any way in to fuel, it just runs the electrodes that reqire minimal power to use, they dont in any way translate electricity to the engine , all the electrodes do is turn the water in to oxigen and hidrogen wich takes extrem low power for large amount of fuel, the fuel is already there in the water, all the electordes do is spleet it, you can think of it as a separetor, so water is fuel, it just needs to be separated, so you dont convert electicity in to fuelor add electicity to water so it will turn in to fuel, all you do is prepare the existing fuel which is water, that is all that is done, a separation, electicity is used for the electrodes and not for the water, you dont use electricity as an ingrediant, you use it as the arm that makes the fuel.

With the use of only 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas
dont belive me search the web.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
the 20 amps do not convert in any way in to fuel, it just runs the electrodes that reqire minimal power to use, they dont in any way translate electricity to the engine



I request you be more precise here. If you run 20 amp current through the 120V line, your expenditure is 2400 Watts, about same a whimpy lawn mower or moped. It's real nevertheless. Let me know if you understand this.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 02:26 PM
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I just told you
4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts 55 standard cubic feet of HHO gas
I dont know how to explain it more to you.
The thing is that you will have to find it by u'r self, I gave you the manual.
The thing is to convert a big amount of fuel you need little power.
You keep converting enecticity in to fuel, you think electicity is used as the ingerdiant that makes the fuel, I told you it's not, you would be thinking hey the more electicity I add to water the more fuel I will get, In fact low quantities of power is needed to separate the molecules, the fuel is already there, you dont make it and you dont add electicity to it.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
I just told you 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts 55 standard cubic feet of HHO gas
I dont know how to explain it more to you.


No, you didn't answer the question. I asked if you understood that when you operate a 120V electrode at 20 amps you spend 2400W of energy.



The thing is to convert a big amount of fuel you need little power.


Sorry but this does not make any sense at all. You start with water. When it burns in the engine, you end up with same amount of water (admittedly in the form of vapor, but it'll condense when cooled). Since you end up with same water, the energy you used to drive you car must have come from somewhere, and you are not telling me from where.

Again: you had a bucket of water before the exercise. You have it after allegely driven over a distance. Same water. Where did the energy come from?

Please think extra hard before answering this one.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

we are talking about the electodes placed in the form of U that vibrate and splits oxigen and oxigen from the water on electical pulse.



What like a tuning fork?



That is ridiculous.

the O-H bond in a water molecule represents a certain value of energy. It takes X amount of energy to break that bond, and youget the same X amount of energy back when you reform that bond.

Didn't you guys take any chemistry classes?



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Ya' know ... if this could happen it would be even more freeing to the world
then when Gahndi did his walk to the ocean for free salt.



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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forget it, who understood me I'm happy, dude it's like you work for a oil company

I told you the fuel is already there, you dont add energy , it's like gas even better than regular gass, but to work it has to be splitted in 2 forms and that does not take alot of power to do, it's just a freaking electrode that has electicity in it, the electrode does not spin it does not do flips, it has a low curent that runs within it, it is not made to make fuel or anything, al it does it splits it.
If you understand that okay if you dont it's okay also.
Think what you are saying, for the curent fuel that you use on the car do you add energy in it?
Water is fuel because of oxigen and hidrogen combined.
Do you use electicity in your car to make gasoline?

[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
but to work it has to be splitted in 2 forms and that does not take alot of power to do


The amount of energy required to split a molecule of water into oxygen and hydrogen has been measured many times, do yourself a favor and look it up. And no, it's not "small".



it's just a freaking electrode that has electicity in it, the electrode does not spin it does not do flips, it has a low curent that runs within it


You said it was 20 amps and that's not a small current ! What's more important, it will take lot more energy than afforded by 120V at 20 amps to produce quantities of gas mix sufficient to drive you car. I did this calculation above.



Think what you are saying, for the curent fuel that you use on the car do you add energy in it?


The fuel I burn in my car is combined with atmospheric oxygen and becomes CO2 and H20 plus energy. I myself don't add anything to it.



Water is fuel because of oxigen and hidrogen combined.


Fuel is something that can enter a chemical reaction (such as between gasoline and oxygen) which would result in energy release. Since water does not enter reaction with oxygen, in this particular case it's not fuel. By the way, you can talk to your local fireman about this.



Do you use electicity in your car to make gasoline?


Oil, of which gasoline is a component, was produced a long time ago (we think) via photosynthesis and massive decay of organic matter (originally generated using solar energy, via photosynthesis). So it has energy effectively stored in it. Water doesn't. It can be converted into something that does, which is H2 and O2, but the resulting mix will only possess as much energy as you put in while splitting the water.


Allow me to ask the same question again (which you didn't answer):


Again: you had a bucket of water before the exercise. You have it after allegely driven over a distance. Same water. Where did the energy come from?



[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by pepsi78
but to work it has to be splitted in 2 forms and that does not take alot of power to do


The amount of energy required to split a molecule of water into oxygen and hydrogen has been measured many times, do yourself a favor and look it up. And no, it's not "small".



it's just a freaking electrode that has electicity in it, the electrode does not spin it does not do flips, it has a low curent that runs within it


You said it was 20 amps and that's not a small current ! What's more important, it will take lot more energy than afforded by 120V at 20 amps to produce quantities of gas mix sufficient to drive you car. I did this calculation above.



Think what you are saying, for the curent fuel that you use on the car do you add energy in it?


The fuel I burn in my car is combined with atmospheric oxygen and becomes CO2 and H20 plus energy. I myself don't add anything to it.



Water is fuel because of oxigen and hidrogen combined.


Fuel is something that can enter a chemical reaction (such as between gasoline and oxygen) which would result in energy release. Since water does not enter reaction with oxygen, in this particular case it's not fuel. By the way, you can talk to your local fireman about this.



Do you use electicity in your car to make gasoline?


Oil, of which gasoline is a component, was produced a long time ago (we think) via photosynthesis and massive decay of organic matter (originally generated using solar energy, via photosynthesis). So it has energy effectively stored in it. Water doesn't. It can be converted into something that does, which is H2 and O2, but the resulting mix will only possess as much energy as you put in while splitting the water.


Allow me to ask the same question again (which you didn't answer):


Again: you had a bucket of water before the exercise. You have it after allegely driven over a distance. Same water. Where did the energy come from?




1 take an alternator and see that it will produce on a constant level way above 20 amps, dotn belive me do a test.

2 you talk about how much it takes to split a molecule but you dont give out examples , you dont give out any numbers

3 I unlike you have done that and provided you with some figures
1 kwv = aproximated 12 square feet of HHO fuel

I think you are hierd by some one or favor the oil companys
but dont worry, this will get out any way, too many people know of it, and when does go out say bye bye to the oil industy, it's just a matter of time.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on May, 25 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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enslaved83 what you are trying to get attention for here does not deserve it. In effect, you are pushing a modern iteration of a perpetual motion machine. It does not work, it cannot work and there is no way you can tweak the design to ever make it work. You do not get more out of a reaction (combustion) process than you put into it--in actual fact, you get even less than half back. You need to either learn enough physics & chemistry to realize this for yourself, or you need to accept the true facts being presented by those that do.



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