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How to defend your self, on a budget.

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posted on May, 26 2006 @ 01:06 AM
I believe that kind of three barreled tool is called a drilling and yes they are expensive. Ive only seen one in someones private collection. As I recall it was some unusual calibers ..or so I thought at the time. Like one barrel in 8x57mm and 16 gauge shotgun in the other and the third I dont recall now.. but it was very unusual to see this kind of set up. Very intresting ...but expensive. The closest thing to this I have is a .22 caliber rifle over a 20 gauge shotgun. Space for stored shotgun shells and .22s in the stock.
The drilling I saw...was not particularly fancy...but the workmanship as to the fit ..the operation and fit of the parts was very good. It was only later when I learned more about guns ..different types that I fully appreciated what I had seen in this tool. Very unusual..even to see one here stateside.

Oh..and yes I have purchased a box of those stripper clips already..about 20 of them but plan to go back and pick up some more with my next purchase of 7.62x39 ammo.


posted on May, 26 2006 @ 09:35 AM
"I just want to say I had no idea you couldn’t even own air guns in Britain.
Good luck preparing for any survival situation over there chaps."

Not a problem. A gun would be very low down on my list of things needed to survive any emergency in the UK. Top of the list would be some Blitz spirit, ie working together with everyone else, share and share alike without complaint.

posted on May, 26 2006 @ 10:30 AM
.22 doesn't have to be a long gun, NW. And that's part of the reason I suggested the caching. You hit a rabbit with a .308, there's not goign to be much left for you to eat. Also, quite hard to take down waterfowl with your nine. Those would be the most abundant non-fish source of food, and you're really limiting yourself if you can't eat them.


posted on May, 26 2006 @ 03:39 PM
i was going to start a new thread but given the amount of good discussion in this one i figured i would ask here instead.

as far as handguns in a survival situation (I already own a rifle and shotgun)
which would be more usefull a semi auto or a revolver? i am presuming less could go wrong with a revolver because of simplicity. what do you all think? also maybe which caliber.

posted on May, 26 2006 @ 03:57 PM
Always, always .357 Mag revolver. Simple, powerful, accurate. Trust me- if you need more than six (or eight, depending) rounds to reach your long gun again, ain't nothing that another ten rounds are going to do for you.

I've been contemplating additional handguns, but they're sort of looking like dead weight after a point. Then again, where I intend to go is bear country. A shotgun would only make a bear very, very angry.


posted on May, 29 2006 @ 02:46 AM
As i said the weapon choises i've made are not made solely by survival needs, 9mm CZ is also a sporting gun for me (IPSC production) and the Mosin is also for Sniping training. And i cannot afford too many weapons so i've picked the most useful for me at the moment.

.22 is still not a good choise for only long arm since it's self defence value is next to nil. 12 Cal shotgun is probably the most versatile weapon in hunting, just as long as you have Buckshots, birdshots and slugs you can take out just about anything.

Btw, check out Sauvestre sabot slugs, i think they might be enough to take down a grizzly, plus you can use them in any type of shotgun barrel.

posted on May, 29 2006 @ 05:19 AM
First off, I know nothing about guns. I don't like guns. I'm afraid of guns.

That said, I just had a very vivid dream in which I found myself to be the happy, even proud, owner of a hand-gun, which I have not clue how to identify. I am hoping that the experts here can somehow help me. Or at least tell me that the "gun of my dreams" is just a figment of my imagination.

The gun was, as I said, a handgun, semi-automatic. The barrel was long, maybe 5-6 inches. The top portion of the barrel was smooth and rounded-over, the bottom was smooth and relatively flat, maybe with a slight curve. In profile, the barrel was thin, rather elegant-looking, actually.

The body of the gun was metal, not plastic, and had an almost coppery finish. The hand-grip was checkered (?) wood, walnut, I think. That would be typical, right?

The ammo was held in a clip. I don't know how many rounds per clip. The bullets were small, maybe 1/4" to 5/16" inch in diameter at the base and aproximately 3/4" to 7/8" long from tip to base. I don't know calibers, and I couldn't read anything off either the gun or the ammo.

The inability to read in dreams is, IMO, the primary reason why more folks don't win lotteries!

The setting of the dream was urban, peaceful; quite normal in every way, except that I was contentedly "getting acquainted" with what seemed to be my new gun. In the dream I was learning how to dis-assemble the piece; removing the clip, clearing the chamber and removing the barrel. The overall feeling I got was one of calm no stress information/instruction. No "war/glory" fantasies for me!

As I said, this is an area completely alien to me. If this dream is a portent of what I am to encounter (as I feel it may well be) I'd like to know what I'm getting into. I'd like to know if my "dream gun" has a basis in fact. Does what I have described ressemble anything that exists?

Thank you again for ANY help you can offer.

Now let's play : "Name That Gun"

posted on May, 29 2006 @ 01:33 PM
Well it sounds most like a 1911 or an early Beretta, a coppery finish, that would be interesting.

To be honest, I used to fear guns but I am too facinated with them, in particular the mechanical aspect of them and how they operate.

Just to tell you guys, I had a dream of owning a revolver, we had a break in in our largish house (essentially our apartment was bigger in our dream) so I loaded my revolver (which I particulary liked for some reason) with .357 magnum ammunition, I also owned some other firearms but I can't remember anymore.

I never liked revolvers until that dream, perhaps you just might like guns after your dream?

if you ever have questions feel free to ask us.

posted on May, 29 2006 @ 03:41 PM
Yeah, that does sound like a 1911 that you described...

Wanna know something wierd? It's the only gun that's ever in my dreams.

But if you're a novice gun owner without much experience, a 1911 might be a poor choice. If you're mechanically inclined, or have someone to go to for help, it's not so bad - but simplicity rules in survival situations.

If you can't operate a particular tool while shivering and wet, injured and in the dark, it may not be a good survival tool. There are guys who can clean their automatic in the dark, wet and shivering and injured, no doubt - but let's not delude ourselves, most of us aren't that cool.

posted on May, 29 2006 @ 03:58 PM

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Well it sounds most like a 1911 or an early Beretta, a coppery finish, that would be interesting.

To be honest, I used to fear guns but I am too facinated with them, in particular the mechanical aspect of them and how they operate.

Just to tell you guys, I had a dream of owning a revolver, we had a break in in our largish house (essentially our apartment was bigger in our dream) so I loaded my revolver (which I particulary liked for some reason) with .357 magnum ammunition, I also owned some other firearms but I can't remember anymore.

I never liked revolvers until that dream, perhaps you just might like guns after your dream?

if you ever have questions feel free to ask us.

Thanks for the help, GZ! You gave me a place to start looking.

And even though it took me all morning on the web, Google Images led me to what I think I saw...Of course the pic was on the very last page! provided.

It appears that the "Gun of my Dream(s)" is a Ruger KMK 678G, "bull" barrel, perhaps "tricked" out with a copper-plate finish and walnut grips.

Odd. The Ruger appears to be primarily a target pistol, and with my eyesight I have trouble sometimes walking through a doorway without running into the walls! I had assumed that such an off-the-wall relationship (between me and a gun) would have indicated something more in "self-defense" vein. Ah well such are dreams!

Still it seems a bit pricey to buy such a thing on a whim, with no hope of ever being able to use it properly...guess we'll just have to see if it is "Meant To Be"!

Again, Thanks for all your help. One mystery solved, another yet to unfold.

posted on May, 29 2006 @ 09:50 PM
I own a Ruger pistol similar to the one spoken of in your post. Mine is a .22 Caliber Ruger Government target pistol with a heavy or what is sometimes refered to as a bull barrel. Mine is about 15 years olde. I like it very much and it is very accurate ..even with plain olde store bought ammunition. This has been one of the few .22 caliber pistols in which I have found great pleasure in shooting. This is the tool which taught me the value of good iron sights on a rifle or pistol verses what usually passes for iron sights on most firearms.
Since the purchase of mine Ruger has come out with multitudes of variations on this basic design ..heavy barrels..slab sided barrels..tapered barrels..long or short lengths but all on the same action. This pistol seems to have become a very popular seller for Ruger and also like their 10/22 Rifle..priced very well for market conditions. Ruger has a steady winner..year after year.. with both the 10/22 rifle and this pistol in all their variations. This is quite a testament to the foresight of Bill Ruger and the company which bears his name.

I do not ,however ,recommend this pistol as a survival pistol or for home defense. If you have nothing else it will have to make do..but not if you have any other alternatives.
This pistol is tricky to dissassemble and reassemble if you have no prior experience with it. I know a gunsmith who has had this and other Ruger pistols brought to them for reassembly after the owners have been unable to do so on their own. They usually keep the pistol for about a week then call them to come back and get it. They know how to reassemble them ..providing they have all the parts about 3 to 5 minutes. They just keep them a week so as to charge them extra..and call it a..Stupid the trade. The customers never know how long it takes them to put it back together. I laughed so hard when this gunsmith told me this particular story!! I would not want to have to disassemble/reassemble this firearm out in the field or under field conditions.

Dont misunderstand This pistol offers alot of value for the money...much value. It is a very good target pistol right out of the box. I like mine very much. Serious target shooters buy these pistols and have special target class work done to them to improve them even more.... custom work. But target shooting is usually done in controlled situations. This is not the case in a survival or home defense situation.
This is, however, a very good pistol to teach you shooting basics...and at low cost in ammunition. It is also a pistol which will last a long long time...and probably be passed on to your children. Once excellent testament to Bill Ruger and the company bearing his name.

Just some information for you to consider.


posted on May, 30 2006 @ 04:19 PM
I love stuff like this, it's just interesting to see what everyone thinks they'll need, made a good read.

posted on May, 31 2006 @ 07:30 PM
My new more practical bag

I used a typical backpack that a teenager would bring to school with 3 compartments :

1) In the first compartment, i put a small plastic container about 4" x 12". In here i put a maglite with 6 extra batteries, 10 books of matches, a small amount of dried out cotton, a little stick of magnesium, a pen, a small compass, and approximately 20-30 water purification tablets (the plastic container has 6 locks on it and a rubber water proofer seal so that water can not get in at all). Also, i included 1 tarp approcimately 10' x 10' rolled up as tightly as possible, and a space blanket.

2) Also, i included in the second pocket 1 pair of jeans, a long sleeve shirt, and a rain slicker. In a small pan about 8 inches in diameter, i stuffed two pairs of boxers, 3 pairs of socks, 4 butane lighters, and 2 bandanas.

3) In the last compartment i put in 10 energy bars, a small medical kit (little bottle of hydrogen peroxide, 2 needles, 2' of thread, 10 bandaids, and a small ace bandage). Also included a 30' fishing line, 5 hooks, and 2 bobbers in a small plastic container for fishing. I also put in 20 .22 bullets in a waterproof container. Also, i included a knife, a multi-tool, and a small hatchet. Lastly, i put in a few maps of local areas and a few how-to books (i rolled these up and put them in old newspaper bags and used rubber bands to seal them off at the top, the contraption is fairly waterproof, espoecially while in the backpack).

4) On the outside of the backpack i put 1 1 liter bottle of water on each side of the backpack in the water bottle holders. I also attached a small blanket approximately 6' x 4' to the top of the backpack rolled up as tight as possible and secured it with a small amount of cord. I also attached approximately 20' of some thin nylon rope to the handle at the top of the backpack.

(i did not include the .22 itself in my pack description as i am sure a person would either hold it or use a shoulder strap)

overall i am guestimating that my pack weigh about 20 pounds give or take a few pounds, which i consider a pretty easy load to carry around. Also, a benefit to the pack i listed would be that you would not overly stick out, meaning that you would draw much less attention to yourself.

As previously stated by other posters, i would recommend having a stash already ready, but if that is not possible, my pack would be able to get me through a week or two until i could find a stream / river / pond where i could get water / fish.

P.S. - Anyone have any suggestions on what to add or take out of my pack?

posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 11:07 AM
As many of you know fire arms in the UK are difficult to own legally.

For home defense I have the following:

Cricket Bat maybe not as east to swing sa a baseball bat but I'm English for Christs sake!

In the car i carry a 2 piece pool cue if i ever get stopped by the police its something I can justify carrying, is small and unobtrusive and can pack a wallop.

I also have a paintball gun in my home.

I know what your thinking but for £300 Ive got a fully automatic (20+ shots per second) with a legal fps of 330 firing reusable (hard) ammunition. However with a twist of a trusty allen key this can be boosted to 400 fps+.

Non lethal but very painful and debilitating.

Finally comes the chemical part of my arsenal.

A small pump spray filled with ammonia or other caustic chemical of choice (meths is also effective but needs to hit the eyes).



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 01:00 PM
doing some re reading of Deus Ex's post I have to agree with his supposition on the .357 magnum revolver.

While I am not particularly a handgun fan for survival purposes I do know that handgun manufacturing has come along way in the last 60 years or so. So has ammunition.

For survival I prefer a rifle or rifle shotgun combination. I prefer to avoid contact as much as possible.

The advantage of the .357magnum revolver is that it is fairly simple and dependable. It has a additional design appeal in that it will shoot .38 specials. This is a big plus as in this country you can find .38 caliber specials at almost any store which carrys ammunition. THe role of .357 magnums is pretty much self explanitory. Many stores carry both types of ammunition .357s or .38s

I prefer my revolvers with a 4 inch barrel minimum. I like a handgun or a rifle with some sight length or sight radius to increase accuracy at distances. I never did take to snub nose type weapons though I understand the practicality of these designs.

Another appeal of this caliber is that it is available in rifles too. The rifles will also shoot .38 specials and .357s. A sport here in this country called Cowboy Action Shooting has greatly promoted the manufacturing of this type of rifle in .37/357 as well as other calibers.

This caliber ...38/357 is also available in a break open rifle by New England arms company ..single shot. It breaks open like a single shot shotgun but shoots the .38/357s. Simple ..reliable..almost nothing to go wrong with it. Not as expensive as lever action tools.

.38 caliber ammunition in the right revolver is a good round to train ones self in when stepping up from .22 caliber tools. Purchasing a revolver in .357 caliber just gives you the option of both calibers. A good choice if one decides to go this route.


posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 01:28 PM
I'm thinking about the lever action rifles- they are fairly rugged, but then tend to be expensive. I also have to check up on local law regarding them.

Orange, you made a great post regarding the .357s. The round has also been the golden standard for manstopping for years. Also, it isn't bad for medium game.

Another point- your handgun should be more of a last resort. It's something you use to get BACK to your long gun. If your long gun happens to be a shotgun, then you use the handgun instead of reloading sometimes eg. to continue engaging targets instead of reloading.

I've decided that caching is going to be the only way to go. If Situation X happens to the states (nuclear war, disease, massive coordinated animal attack, etc) then the americans are going to run screaming up here. So, I'm going to try to plan for contigencies wherein there is a high level of threat from human agents. Also, just as a note, biological agents don't come from the air or the water when you're in your rustic setting. they come from people.


posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 02:09 PM
smurf: You should get a lot more .22 rounds, they are cheap and don't weight that much

I agree with DE and Orange about the .357 being the best survival handgun. My personal choise was constricted to 9mm due to IPSC needs, but i will get a .357 eventually.

Lever action .45 or .357 is a good self defence tool and cabable gun in hunting too. My own preference is in Bolt action guns, but that's just because i like the accuracy of a good rifle.

If you cache guns id suggest:
-.308 or heavier bolt rifle (keeps the neighbourhood clean as well)
-.357mag revolver
-.22 rifle (lever, bolt or semiauto will do)
-16 or 12 cal shotgun (stock slugs, birdshots and buckshots)
-semiauto rifle (preferably anything but .223) for self defence if you think you need it

500 rounds of ammo for each...

My "cache" is considerably smaller, but i do have access to that kind of an arsenal incase of emergency. (My relatives have a farm outside the city, so i just "fight" my way there)

Btw if you have an AR type weapon in .223 you might try to get a .22LR conversion kit for it, they don't cost much and all you need to change is bolt and carrier and magwell and i think it can be done with no tools and change between calibers is 5mins tops

posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 04:44 PM
I was able to stuff in 30 more .22 bullets but it was a semi-tight fit. However, it didn't add much weight to the pack. The only down side is that it is harder to pull out the maps/knife/multi-tool/hatchet if needed in an emergency. I would probably suggest getting a small flexible waterproof bag about 1 ' - 1' and attatch it to the main bag. This will be able to hold A LOT of ammo while not increasing the weight to where the pack is unmanigable. Also, a person will most likely have a stash where they can put more bullets so they don't have to worry about lugging around as many bullets.

posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 06:54 PM
Taking a break from my labors. I am reloading some 300 plus rounds of .38 special and about 20 rounds of 357 magnum.

I will reload most of the .38 specials with a lignt powder load for practice and lead bullets. This makes for a cheap practice load. Some I will load with light loads and a 158 grain jacketed hollow point by the Serria bullet company.

The 357 magnums I will load with a just above medium charge of IMR 4227 powder and the same 158grain jacketed hollow point. I dont really care for hot loads. I think it is a ineffecient way to go and prematurely wears out your gun.

Hoping to fit in some time tomorrow to go to the range and check out my second SKS rifle ...putting her through the paces and compare her to the firs SKS.

Hope all are having a good weekend,

posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 07:54 PM
If you're looking for a good, cheap, reliable gun to cache, check out the Springfield Survival rifle. Combo .22/.410 gauge, over/under rifle/shotgun. Selectable with a little screw pin, quite simple.

Also, it stores ammo in the stock, weighs barely anything, has a very reliable bar-style trigger which makes it a lot easier to operate off-handed, injured, or in freezing temperatures.

I can't think of a better investment for 200 bucks. (I don't work for the company, or have any investments tied to them - I know I sound like a shill tho.)

Creating a cache is a great idea, but let's face it, most people just don't have the resources to justify burying thousands of dollars worth of bang-bang on the off-chance they may one day need it.

And, it's been said, but it won't hurt to repeat it: if you're going to cache firearms, MAKE SURE it's safe, secure, weather-tight, and recoverable. The last thing you want is some kids finding your cache. Not quite as disastrous, but still a serious kick in the pants, would be if the rain got in and ruined all your fancy toys. Take care to do it right, the consequences of failing to do so are huge.

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