How to defend your self, on a budget.

Unless you're used to it, yeah, ditch the body armor. While looking like you mean bidness might scare some scavvies off, having all the toys just means they'll be more willing to try and take them from you. Also, if you make it out to your remote site, why would you need it?

DE

AntiHero

For a breakdown situation, whether epidemic, riot, or other, the city is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

On the bright side, there are tons of raw materials to work with. You're unlikely to be hard up for cloth, combustibles, water containers, or shelter.

Very true also, it's crowded and it's dangerous, but there are lots of resources. There are all manner of supermarkets, private homes, retail stores, warehouses, and so on. If one can find a way to move about largely undetected and unmolested, one would have no problem at all staying fed and supplied with whatever manner of tool one could ever want.

I can propose a couple of ideas for those who may need to leave the city, or move around within it.

How about sticking to the rooftops at night? One could use a hand-crank pully and lines to go up, and a flying squirrel suit to go down - like a regular superhero. This is only an option if you're fit and strong, and fast. The less attention one draws, the better. If you can, create an electronic or paper database of good spots in the city, and find a way to preserve the information for future use. Laptop and a generator in a Faraday Cage, or scrapbook in trunk, as your means permit.

Another possibility (if you have to move around on the street) is to make yourself untouchable, literally. If you appear virulently ill, most people will not want to come into contact with you. This tactic is NOT advised in the case of a pandemic situation where the trucks are roaming around picking up the infected. That would be counter-productive I think.

However, in a collapse/war type situation, looking like you've got leprosy or ebola or some horrible pox is a great way to move unmolested on the ground. Bone up on your acting skills, and take some studio makeup classes, I guess. Could prove much more valuable than a handgun or a sword, or something like that.

If you don't mind rats (seeing them, smelling them, touching them, eating them, using them as pillows), it might make sense to go underground. Nightvision would help in some cases and not in others (if there's no light at all for your goggles to amplify, they're useless), but batteries would be hard to locate. IR would be a better bet, but the cost is pretty high for a set-up.

If you decide to live underground, you could use a sewer tunnel junction as your living space, a hammock to sleep in, and an early warning system down each branch to let you know of unwanted visitors, if you could get used to the smell it might not be so bad.

Everything in an urban area is inter-connected by utility access tunnels. If one had intimate knowledge of these, it would definitely be the way to go. For someone with no idea where they're going, it would probably not be such a hot idea.

I think it is certainly worth exfil, even if the place is a war zone.

That would be entirely situational. In the case of a city like Manhattan, in the event of a quarantine, I'd stay for sure. The perimeter could be too easily controlled, all the exits buttoned up, and the water patrolled. I'd rather take my chances against the other city-dwellers, in that scenario.

It really depends on the exact nature of the event. It's all good speculation though, one can never have too many contingency plans.

I would probably be looking for a boat, and an ocean, in case of something serious. Fewer problems out at sea. Better to be crushed by a rogue wave than eaten by cannibal crackheads...

Don't forget the good ol' .30-.30! Can be fired pretty quick. Handles quick and light. Women can easily fire it. Ammo's not bad either in cost or performance. Can find ammo for it in any Walmart you care to loot when the Big One happens. They are accurate and the lever action cocking makes a great sound! I do agree though that for pitched gun-battles-SKS! That ammo is so cheap and small. You can carry lots and send lots down the barrel.

[edit on 5/22/2006 by JungleMike]

A 9mm carbine might also be an excellent tool, powerful enough to incapacitate a human being while light and cheap enough to hunt small game with.

a friend of mine who is particulary worried about an alien invasion by space lizards is preparing him self by making hydrophonic farms and such he is also considdering utilizing caves as a good hide-out, I somewhat agree that a cave would be a reasonable place to go albeit cold and damp, a cave might have alot of natural water however.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
I somewhat agree that a cave would be a reasonable place to go albeit cold and damp, a cave might have alot of natural water however.

Its a good place until someone finds out you are there. Then all they have to do is come in and look for you and you have aboslutely no where to go. Or worse, they pump some kind of gas into the cave system and you are done for ...

P.S. - Still trying to find time to work on a new list

to all the ak bashers-- i just want to say that i was at the range today with my wasr century arms romanian ak47 and it was awesome.

i was using a target that has one of those men in the upper right corner real small to simulate 300 yards at 25. you may know what im talking about.
anyways its hard to hit a man sized target with iron sights at 300 yards but i got 3 of 5 rounds in. so yes while the ak 47 is not exactly a sniper rifle, its good enough at least the century arms wasrs are. some people dont have 2000 to drop on a bushmaster. in a bad situation i think 4 ak's trump one bushmaster. or one ak and 1500 worth of ak ammo. anyway you cut it, the ak is the best value and bang for the buck out there. everyone has preferances but if your prefrence is most for your money go with an ak.

the gun was caked in cosmoline which was also awesome. after 60 rounds white smoke was pouring out of it. i love the look on other peoples faces when i walk on the range with that thing.

good thread though, and it is best to be prepared, we may find out sooner rather then later...

I have little use for a AK type rifle. I have chosen the SKS series. Nothing against those who want them. I just prefer the SKS series.
At 300 yards that is pretty good shooting for a AK...iron sights. I am not sure I could do it with my SKS.

I also dont have any use for a Bushmaster. Most of these tools are way over priced. Most of the AR series too. I see where they are finally coming out with versions of the AR series in .308 caliber or what the military calls 7.62x 51 mm. Its about time they did. The AR's shortcomings are becoming apparent in Iraq and especially in Afganistan. Especially in 5.56mm.

Thanks for your post and views,
Orangetom

AR-15 type rifles are going down on price now, i've seen them as low as 600 dollars now so that's not too bad for an AR, I do prefer AK's better though, just personal preference...

In a breakdown of society situation AK would be better than AR in 5.56, since AKs 7.62x39 is a better caliber for medium game (boar, deer) and .223 is mainly good for lot smaller game...

My choise of long arm is 7.62x54R Mosin nagant m1944, (i'm going to buy one soon, and rebuild it into a light sniper/marksman rifle) Caliber choise is obviously influenced that i live 20km from the Russian border and ammunition is "available" from both Finnish and Russian Armies and it's common hunting round here too (alltough numbers are falling in favor of th .308 and other newer and more powerful calibers.
Main reason for the gun choise is price, 100€-200€ for a good conditioned military stock model, then 50€ for a new stock and 150€ for scope and mount and maybe 30€ for a bipod and you have a good allaround rifle for 350-450€

Nothing wrong with your choice of the Mosin Nagant rifle. Were I in your shoes I would choose the same. I was very surprised to see a olde timer shooting one at the local range...with Iron Sights...100 yards. Looking through my spotting scope..this olde guy was shooting very respectable groups. It caused me to look closer at his rifle and ammo. I gained a new respect for this rifle on that day.

My experience to date with this Russian Ammo..is that it is very cost effective. Both in 7.62x54 and 7.62x39. I cannot reload it t that cheaply here in the states.

While I am stocking up on 7.62x39 I do intend to get some new boxer primed brass and bullets ..and put them away along with the reloading dies. The Russian style ammo is berdan primed..and not suitable for reloading with my tools. Most of the Russian Ammo is also steel cased.

I myself own two of a WW1/WW2 type bolt action rifle called a Springfield 1903 in 30.06 caliber. One is standard issue...and like the Mosin Nagant shoots very well with iron sights. The other is a modified heavy barreled target rifle ..with optics. It is a nail driver if you can hold her steady. She is a heavy rifle but shooting her is exceptional. I reload alot for both rifles...target type loads and soft point hunting ammo.

I do not know what the restrictions by law are in your country but if you want better accuracy than standard factory ammo...I would suggest you learn to reload with match grade components. Even the military for thier target/competition and sniper teams uses specially prepared ammunition.

Good choice of rifle you have made Northwolf.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Reloading is perfectly legal here, but i don't have the space to do that now, but i do have access to military sniper loads of 7.62x54R loaded for Tak-85 (Pimped out Mosin )
Tak-85


The kind of gun i'm building (not 1to1 this, but similar)


but I will use a friends help to develope few good loads just for my rifle, most likely one for soft hunting load (which i don't have use for right now) and 2 loads for Match ammo, one subsonic and one for long range sniping.



Btw, i suggest you to get some stripper clips for your SKS, they might save the day in a tight spot and cost a 4$ a box

Goundzero:
Thanks for the post. I have no experience whatsoever with guns but I have been giving this subject a lot of thought recently and would like to go ahead and buy a gun. I would also like to use it for target practice and clay pigeon shooting (there are a few gun clubs in the area and it looks like fun). Any ideas as to what I should get, how much it will cost me, where to go to get one, and any other advice?

Also, regarding protecting our communities against the NWO... It's my feeling that the NWO is coming if not here already in some form. However, I need to keep this stuff to myself otherwise I'll get laughed out of the room from family and friends. Any ideas on bringing up the subject without looking like an escaped mental patient?

Clay pigeon shooting (flying clay discs, right?) requires a shotgun and most use two barreled guns for that, but if you plan to do it just for the fun of it, pump action is OK. Plus a 12cal Pump is THE thing for home defence.

Originally posted by mecheng
Any ideas as to what I should get, how much it will cost me, where to go to get one, and any other advice?

The Winchester 1300, if you can find it. It'll be ballparking around 500$. Pump action shotgun, quite nice. Local hunting and gunshops will carry it, hopefully. take an NRA safety course first.

Failing that, the law enforcement benchmark is still the remington 870.

DE

orangetom

yeah i had an sks before i had the ak. it was one of the yugo models with the grenade launcher on the end of the barrel. I ended up returning the sks because it was under warrenty and was having extractor problems (every 2 or 3 shots would jam). I figured in a survival situation a gun that jams every round is a bad idea. I got the Ak to replace it.

I have freinds that have sks's that are great and your right they are good rifles and slightly cheaper then the ak. the only downside is slightly less capcity for the most part with the 5 round stripper clips but in a survival situation i suppose this would be optimum helping you to conserve ammo, as opposed to my 75 round drum.

i would however recomend against the yugoslavian versions out now with the grenade launchers, but this is personal exsperiance. sks's are still good rifles and i can see myself maybe getting one in the future since it fires the 7.62x39mm round the ak does.

good cash to firepower ratio withboth the ak and sks versions.

if noise is a problem why dont you get a silencer or something like that

OK, I’ve decided to put together my list for survival gear for cold weather survival. Basic assumption to this kit is that you relocate/hide for 2 weeks after the X and then start to settle somewhere safe.

Survival gear:
- Good rucksack (65L+), my choice would be Savotta LJK (my current one is 65L Everest)
- Day pack (preferably one that is integral to your main pack
- Sleeping bag, tested for at least -30C( -22F)
- Mattress, and a “Space Blanket”
- Light tent or a 2x2 waterproof canvas (depending on your preference)
- Small Axe, Try some of the smaller Fiskars ones
- Knife, my choice is JP Peltonen, Ranger knife
- Cooking device (Liquid fuel Trangia is excellent)
- 2-3 1,5L Solid plastic bottles + 0.5-1L Bottle of water
- Spoon
- 2L of fuel (preferably alcohol)
- 1L Gasoline/lighter fuel, for igniting camp fires.
- Compass and a Map (preferably 1:500000 maps of your immediate surroundings, and a larger map of about 200-300km around you)
- Notebook and a pencil
- Thin rope/strong line (Climbing rope is mainly dead weight 99% of the time, you mostly just use it build shelter anyway)
- Thin steel wire

hahah

(Special note Brits, even if your Law forbids you to own powerful airguns, no law prohibits you to get a new spring from abroad and get it back to “normal” power levels)

I just want to say I had no idea you couldn’t even own air guns in Britain.
Good luck preparing for any survival situation over there chaps. Might I suggest a few modern language association handbooks on grammar to read at your enemies in an attempt to bore them to death...

Northwolf, I'll tell you what Herr Doctor told me:

Where's the .22? The shotty for birds? Maybe even fishing gear? As much food as a moose provides, there is the issue that they aren't all that common...eg, you won't bag one a day. Me, I'd set a cache of ammunition, a case of seeds, and my fishing/tenting gear as well as anything really heavy in a spot up north, maybe in a trail heading north. That would leave the more important task of arriving alive with my full attention, instead of being a human pack mule

DE, My gear is meant for someone on the move, .22, 12cal shotty are nice to have, but have you ever tried to move with 3 long arms? (.22 is a good addition, but i've not concidered it to be helpful for me personally)
Out here line and a hook kit is all you need for fishing, making a rod takes 1/2 min so you don't carry extra weight... Bass and Pike are easy to catch by using earthworms as baits... (i don't know how to use any of the fancier fishing gear, exept explosives and they are a bit hard to get and i wouldn't advice on using them unless you're trained)

One good choice is a 3 barrel folding rifle (one for .308, one .22 one for 12cal or 16cal) Those are quite popular at Central Europe (but expencive as Hell)