How to defend your self, on a budget.

i apologise for my continent!

but seriously
i think firearm control is needed in the US
your gun murder rate is insane
having said that most handguns used for murder are illegally owned so im guessing the only real way to cut back on it is to destroy a lot of the guns existing in the US

i apologise for my continent!

but seriously
i think firearm control is needed in the US
your gun murder rate is insane
having said that most handguns used for murder are illegally owned so im guessing the only real way to cut back on it is to destroy a lot of the guns existing in the US

Originally posted by popek
i apologise for my continent!

but seriously
i think firearm control is needed in the US
your gun murder rate is insane
having said that most handguns used for murder are illegally owned so im guessing the only real way to cut back on it is to destroy a lot of the guns existing in the US

No need to apologise to me for your content. You are entitled to your opinions. Also I am a big boy and can take it. No problem.

Actually popek...what is needed is some concept to improve the character of our people. Not gun control.

However ...if you develope the character and character traits of the people ...they might figure out we dont need as much benevolent government to look out for us and take the risks for us in our daily lives. Translate that as we dont need many politicians and government employees on jobs programs. This will never be allowed. This is why I say our politicians are European trained. This is exactly the scenerio one finds in most European nations.

There is something very dubious and untrustworthy about a government who will arm you to fight and die for them but not trust you with a firearm of your own. I would even go so far as to say it is immoral or unethical of the government.

As I said to someone in another board... someone in the UK..we are not subjects here and have no desire to be subjects. Subjects are granted priveleges by a benevolent government...that is why they are subjects. They dont have Rights but priveleges. Priveleges can be revoked at the pleasure of the Soverign...not so with Rights.
In judical jurisprudence this is called Admiralty Law. The laws of the sea and maritime enroaching on land..the Law of the Soverign. Not for us here in the United States.

Thanks,
Orangetom

i agree a lot with that orangetom

however british people get very jumpy about guns
obviously being a much smaller country something that happens th other end of the country is still worryingly close to home

the dunblane massacre really paved the way for the gun ban where a nut case walked into a school and killed 15 little children and their teacher it pretty much put the whole country against guns
to the point the British Olympic pistol team have to train outide the UK!

Originally posted by popek
i agree a lot with that orangetom

however british people get very jumpy about guns
obviously being a much smaller country something that happens th other end of the country is still worryingly close to home

the dunblane massacre really paved the way for the gun ban where a nut case walked into a school and killed 15 little children and their teacher it pretty much put the whole country against guns
to the point the British Olympic pistol team have to train outide the UK!

Yeah..Ive heard that about the Australian olympic shooting team too. That is the difference in rights and priveleges. That is how it is handled in the UK and Down Under.

Once again ..something very immoral about a government acting thus..and then wanting you to send your young people to the Army etc to take risks for the government with a gun but cannot own one privately.

Here in America we also have private ownership of property...private property. This does not exist in many nations. Under such nations you must at law prove your innocence...not presumption of innocence.

In taking our guns the position of the government is.... we are gulity to begin with ..having committed no crime... and then take from us our private property. It is a presumption of guilt in order to seize private property....not an American principle..once again......our European trained politicians at work. Our schools and colleges here are attempting by the generations to teach the European model and thinking....prively to a unthinking generation.

You must be up standing the night watchs...as am I.

Thanks,
Orangetom

thats very true
i am 20 with a clean criminal record and have been looking into getting my UK rifle liscence we can only a tiny amount of rifles almost all bolt action with a max 5 round magazine but even for someone who is a full time student studying, no criminal conviction, an honest reason to own a weapon (im a certified air rifle marksman and want to move up to rifle target shooting) they are making it really difficult for me to even get on a training course

and add to that the fact im not even applying to keep a gun i am applying for a liscence to own one but it must be kept at the range


[edit on 9-10-2006 by popek]

The brittish paranoia about weapons is really amazingly stupid, the fact that some knives and too powerful airguns are banned is just sad, since they in no way affect the crime rate.

In Finland we have a system where local police gives out gun permits if the applicant has a "clean" record and a legitimate reason for the gun. Legitimate reasons are target shooting and hunting, self defence is not listed as a good reason. But considering that gun crime rate is very low it's acceptable not to give out defencive lisences (some special groups like prosecutors, judges etc. can get the guns for self defence)


I spent the sunday afternoon on range and got positively suprised about my CZ-75s accuracy on longer ranges (out to 75m) i could actually hit something from supported position. But my "groups" were a lot worse than my friends out to 100m, he used a .357 mag S&W

I allso managed to obtain some military grade 9mm Para rounds from my contacts, they seem to a be extremely high quality and powerfull made by Lapua.

My friends, I request your input on this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The success and long-lasting nature of this thread finally led me to the conclusion we need a "Survivalists" forum. At the very least, a research project, but I think there's more than enough material to fill a forum. I would like each of you to weigh in on that thread with your thoughts, if you would be so kind.

Each of you has had some very valuable input and insight regarding this thread. Together we can help the more intelligent and prepared amonst us survive in Situation X.

I was not sure exactly what a CZ 75 was so I looked it up. Ok...75 yards is a long way for a 9mm. Its a long way for a .45. I do know a handful of people who can hit the target at those distances with .45 caliber. Not many but a few.

THe .357magnum has a slightly heaver powder charge to help it along to the further distances. Good sights help alot when shooting like this. Well..no ..I would say that good sights help alot at any distance. THey made a difference in my Colt Government...significant difference.

My replacement stocks came in for the SKS rifles thatI bought awhile back. I will attempt to install them this weekend begining with the Monte Carlo stock.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

I was not sure exactly what a CZ 75 was so I looked it up. Ok...

A very nifty pistol. It's also the pistol preferred by Rally Vincent in Gunsmith Cats, in case anyone cares. If memory serves, it was a Czech pistol used in WWII, and a small number of officer models had a walnut grip, unlike the later models with a metal grip. Supposedly accurate and reliable, but I've never fired one myself.

Thelibra
a bit more recent gun than WW2
CZ-75

[edit on 13-10-2006 by northwolf]

Originally posted by northwolf
Thelibra
a bit more recent gun than WW2
CZ-75

Ah, well, that's why I shouldn't try to go by memory.
Thanks for the info. Neat little history behind this gun.
Was I at least correct about the walnut grip?

Oh and talking about sights the .357 s&w highwayman had a red dot sight fixed to a weaver rail. Not the perfect for long range shtooting, but hits at 100m mean it will do the job

Originally posted by northwolf
Oh and talking about sights the .357 s&w highwayman had a red dot sight fixed to a weaver rail. Not the perfect for long range shtooting, but hits at 100m mean it will do the job

yeah..those are some sights on a handgun. I myself like a good set of adjustable iron sights on a handgun or even a rifle. Not much into fixed sights.

I will eventually get round to trying out one of those red dot sights or holo sights out of curiosity.

I dont like this cowboy type arrangement where you have a post on the front and a ramp or groove/slot in the back. This is why I never took to a snub nosed type revolver although I recognize the slot of position which these types of weapons fill.
I prefer full adjustable sights on the tools I choose to own.

A further update...I spent about two hours last night, after getting home from work, out in my garage installing the two replacement stocks for the SKS rifles. The Monte Carlo stock looks promising but the folding stock looks to flimsy.
I have found a site under the label Choate. It seems to be much heaver duty stock. A bit more in Dollars but I think it will be worth it in the long run.

I have not tried out these stocks at the gun range. I plan to make a blank from two pieces of my 7.62mm brass and just load a primer to check the function of the rifle and firing pin. The final test of course will be at the shooting range.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Since the request for a survivalist forum thread was closed, I have started a new thread for Situation X and nesting other Survival thread links.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

We would love your company. Please feel free to contribute and link. Again, thank you for all your support in keeping our fellow ATSers alive.

First snow fell today and it will be on ground up till early april at least.

So have you prepared yourself and your kit for operating in subzero temperatures and in snow?

There are several important aspects to be considered if the situation X happens during winter. Some of you may think that winter and snow are no concerns in your living areas, but what if you have to relocate north? Can you keep your car moving if the roads are icy? Do you know how to survive a night in woods in -20C?

Just some toughts after a day drifting in snow with my BMW

Originally posted by northwolf
First snow fell today and it will be on ground up till early april at least.

So have you prepared yourself and your kit for operating in subzero temperatures and in snow?

There are several important aspects to be considered if the situation X happens during winter. Some of you may think that winter and snow are no concerns in your living areas, but what if you have to relocate north? Can you keep your car moving if the roads are icy? Do you know how to survive a night in woods in -20C?

Just some toughts after a day drifting in snow with my BMW

Northwolf,
No I am not prepared for this. I just got my Ford Ranger truck working again after about three months. I've been riding my moped back and forth to work. Saves me alot of gas. I own two of them.

However I still recall the advice you and someone else gave on the Kawasaki motorcycle which as I recall you or the other person stating they could take a beating and keep on going. This quality would be number one for me..even in a winter type bike. Ruggedness/simplicity/reliability.....Just like the SKS rifle. I am still considering it...the Motorcycle.

I do have some experience in the winters down in the bottom of drydocks and this has taught me that the clothes make a huge difference. Layering up helps me alot. I even ride my mopeds around here in the dead of winter...though it is nothing like up in Finland. Here ..for this I have resorted to a set of snowmobile gloves. What a difference they make riding two wheels. The wind can literally suck the heat from your body...quickly. I own two snowmobile suits too.
As to surviving on foot or on motorcycle...something to break the wind ...a temporary cover..windbreaker...poncho...light strong and protable would be in order.
YOu know ..Northwolf..I have spoken with guys who have been out in the scrub for awhile. They tell me something with which to sew and clean dry socks is a thing one would just about kill for. We often think of guns, bullets and shoot em ups...but often dont thing about the simple daily things like clean dry socks. Winter or summer. Amazing!!!

Can you pass on to us any concepts for such extreme winter temperatures?? It would be appreciated..Thanks,

Orangetom

Some tips for cold weather survival:
A) on foot or in general
1. Keep dry, avoid sweating and if you get snow on/in your clothes brush it off before it melts.

2.Layer your clothing, have a warm outer layer that is easy dress/undress, take it off while moving and put it on while staying still.

3.Keep your feet dry, clean and warm. wearing multiple socks helps, but good boots are essential.

4.Eat a warm meals and drink coffee or tea often to keep your body heat up

5.Don't smoke, it makes you loose body heat through your lungs

6.Learn how to ski, not only to alpine ski but how to move with nordic cross country skis, snow shoes are easy, skis are twice faster, do the math

7.No alcohol, it gives a war feeling for a second and bitter cold for an hour (it's a boost for a morale tough)

8.Snow is warm, this one may sound crazy, but snow is usually warmer than the air and it acts as good insulation. Bury yourself into snow to stay warm (just make sure you have something between you and the snow, for example some waterproof fabric)

9.Dry branches of the fir tree are good fuel, they burn hot even if they're frozen or wet. Birch tree makes an anti-freeze for it's sap making it good fuel if temperatures are really low (-20C and colder)

10.If you have a warm shelter, stay there. Italians lost majority of their troops in exercise battle griffin '05 to frostbites while maintaining their vehicles during the only -30C day, we stayed in our tents and lost none


Some vehicle tips:
1.Winter tyres help a lot

2.If you drive an 4wd or RWD car, watch some drifting clips, helps you understand how the car behaves on a slippery surface

3.Anti freeze on all liquids


And a gun tip:
NO OIL, NONE What so ever, NO NO NO, and don't come saying i didn't say NO


A motivational picture taken from my door at the time this post was written:

Very nice picture. I have tried to use the images..or insert a image function on the symbols above when I post but with no luck.

What process did you use to post that snowy picture out your back door?? Would like to know so I can try to post some pictures??

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by northwolf
Some tips for cold weather survival:

Hehe, nice list Wolf.

I am pretty sure you know Ray Mear's extreme survival on Discovery Channel. Really enjoying watching it, especially his survival journey with the Swedish army.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
What process did you use to post that snowy picture out your back door??

Upload your pictures for instance to imageshack.us and then use the following code: [img]URL[/.img] (without the point after / )



[edit on 2-11-2006 by Mdv2]