Former NSA Director Nominated to Head CIA

Some of these posts are really cracking me up.

We have run the full gamut of sentimentality, sensationalism and slander here, all in just the last page of this thread.....including the invasion your personal privacy, an alleged dictatorship, an attack on our constitution, gagging of freedom of speech, comparisons to Adolf Hitler, a government that lies to the public as a matter of policy....and lets not forget the children. Oh, my God...think of the children!

Some of you people need to seriously wake the hell up and get a grip on reality.

Do you honestly think that these propgrams and types of activities are new, or exclusive to the current administration? Do you honestly believe that previous democratic administration had nothing to do with this stuff? Do you really believe that this hasn't been going on, quietly and effectively, since the time of black & white TV? These programs have been going on for many, many years and it hasn't caused a single American to lost a single iota of "freedom" since they started. These programs have been classified for many different reasons, but one of the reasons I'm sure was to prevent the kind of knee-jerk reaction that the politically motivated people in this country would feed on. Just tell me, would you really feel the same way about these programs, if instead they were revealed in the wake of the original WTC bombings? When Clinton was in charge?

You know absolutely nothing about these programs. Nothing. Other than what you see on TV, read in the newspapers, and read on the net. Do you really believe that these sources are giving you unbiased, and more importantly, accurate and relevant information? You are consuming half-truths and hyperbole that is being generated by politically-motivated sources that understand the power of the medium they are employing. ATS is supposed to deny ignorance - not create and amplify it. Simply regurgitating half-baked news wire stories and then ranting and raving about loss of freedoms (you haven't lost any, by the way) and a morally bankrupt administration (maybe true - doesn't matter - they are gone in 2 years) is not in the spirit of ATS and Deny Ignorance.

There is a lot of shrill ranting going on in the media, in congress, and on the street. I really wish we could limit here at ATS. And I really wish people would stop making claims and accusations about losing their freedoms and so forth...without providing any concrete proof, or at least anecdotal evidence, to support their claims. It all just sounds like a lot of "the sky is falling!" talk to me.......

Pyros

You said it best.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Just curious Boat, are you a Republican or Democrat because I really can't tell who is what anymore, all these parties seem the same now.

Hey, trust me I hate government spending, but in a time of war you need to spend money. Also, with Katrina hitting and all the Federal money that was needed, its not such a suprise to see that the Federal government had to increase spending.

Just for the record I don't post anything on this board to "get a rise" out of anyone, these are my true feelings. You may not agree, but i've got to say how I feel just like everyone else.

Also, I don't think anyone is "evil" just for not agreeing with me, but many times I am slammed as some kinds of bad guy just becuase I support President Bush.

-- Boat

You have voted Pyros for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Thank you!!!

Well said...I wish more people would realize this!

-- Boat

[edit on 11-5-2006 by Boatphone]

You have voted Pyros for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

And more importantly, you made excellent points without resorting to partisan bickering.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by Pyros
...a morally bankrupt administration (maybe true - doesn't matter - they are gone in 2 years)...

The only problem is that some of the faces and names change, but the problems still remain.

One thing that someone (sorry whoever it was, after reading through 5 pages of various rants, I can't remember who said what on many details) pointed out is that the political parties don't make any real difference. I agree with this perspective whole-heartedly and as such tend to discount statements made implying that changing the party affiliation of anyone will make any lasting difference.

Drop the implication that things will improve in 2 years and you get a major thumbs up from me as well!

Jaryn

Also, we can debate about the perceived versus actual loss of freedoms at some other time...I think your point has a lot of merit there, just not sure that I agree with it

Some good stuff here.

Do you think we've lost more freedoms NOW than we lost during the worst of World War 2 orthe decade that followed?

There was a point in time when the FBI, through J. Edgar Hoover, had a lot of power to watch and wiretap just about anyone.

As a historian, I don't think we're quite there yet...but...it's very close.

I’ll chalk another one, good post Pyros, well said.

You have voted Pyros for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Pyros

Sensationalism or not we have now something that we didn't have before, is called the new constitution and is named The patriot act this document made under the Bush administration have only one purpose.

That purpose is to be use to justified anything that is now hitting us in our faces.

The Patriot act is an illegal document if we compare it with what the constitution said and was the only way that the government could do what is doing right now and claim legality.

No, matter what color you paint it or what flavors your spice it, the privacy rights and constitutional rights of every American in this country has been replaced by that infamous and immoral document.

Telling that every government has done spying is just another excused in the repertory of giving this present government a slack.

That slack is going to be the one that our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying painfully in their life time.

This government is corrupt, have not regard for the constitution and doesn't care any bit about the people and the people's rights in this country.

Its running on a lose leash and is making it's own laws thanks to the patriot act and the self proclaim Powers of a war president.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by marg6043]

Marg,

What are you talking about? Can you give some examples of how the Patriot Act is so evil, and "illegal".

You realize that Congress approved the Patriot Act, and its good for our nation, but please, I'd love to hear why you don't like it.

Do tell.

-- Boat

Hey, thanks for including me in your conservation, but I've really got to be going now.

Here's just a few of many anecdotes to describe the danger of recording logs of all telephone calls.

You track the calls of contractors to determine which one has the right political affiliations to get a contract from government.

You track the calls of politicans to determine political and personal affiliations to gain an edge on them as a competitor as well as for blackmail.

You track the calls of businessman to determine their business dealings and affiliations to gain an edge on them as a competitor as well as for blackmail.

You track the calls of activists to determine their affiliations and next staging of protests to harass their members and shut down their right to assembly and speech.

Not to mention that such a program just opens up the avenue to more intensive spying avenues, such as tracking purchases (identity theft task force), tracking movements (travel tickets, gas purchases), as well as tracking thoughts and beliefs (internet).

Seriously, do you guys just consider the Fourth Amendment only fit to wipe your butts with? No one cares when the writ of habeus corpus is denied, no right to a trial by jury, no protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. When is this excuse of terrorism going to be enough? Terrorism has been used as an excuse to take away guaranteed rights that this country's founders have fought and died for and our servicemen have protected for centuries. Yet, all of a sudden 2,000 people die and that is sufficient to take away the security of our most prized rights.

Apparently the leading causes of death in this country stemming from medical conditions are not enough to provide universal health care nor create a "war on heart disease" or any other such condition that probably kills more than 2,000 people a week. Yet, it is terrorism that churns the wheels of the military-industrial machine and it is that which will be an excuse not only to centralize the power of the government and increase it, but to favor those who help that endeavor. So much for integrity....

[edit on 11-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

I still haven't read any explanation for why Hayden was picked, if the goal was to increase the CIA's presence on the ground. He's NSA, it makes no sense. He has nothing to offer in that regard, just based on his CV.

He knows less about humint that 90% of the guys already on the CIA payroll. So why didn't they promote from within?

Nobody has been able to answer that question to my satisfaction.

Until that question gets answered, the guy will look like a stooge to me, a shill who got rewarded for his unfailing support of foolish men in high office. :shk:

WyrdeOne.

He was picked because he already is familiar with the illegal wiretapping of American citizens and has experience with keeping secrets.

He also is part of the phone number gathering list that has come to light.

He is the man needed by the Bush administration to keep his mouth shut and kept the illegal spying going.

Ahh well if they were honestly listening in to my phone conversation, I would have been in prison long ago. I will continue to live my life without fear. I guess I will just have to talk to my frineds with radios n #.

Here's just a few of many anecdotes to describe the danger of recording logs of all telephone calls.
:

Here's just a few of many anecdotes to describe the danger of allowing someone to cut your hair:

They can use your hair to create a mitochondrial mtDNA footprint of you.

They can use your hair to roughly gauge how many minorities live in an area.

They can sell that data to all types of malcontent groups.

etc., etc.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Here's just a few of many anecdotes to describe the danger of allowing someone to cut your hair:

Js, hair can not talk. . . but a conversation of you with somebody else in the phone talking about how much you may disagree with your government and want them out of power in some countries can be the death of you and your family.

In our country under the patriot act can be interpreted as a the possibility of a terrorist act against the government.

Yes now it sounds sensational and incredible.

But so was knowing that our government is keeping track of our phone numbers and who we call the most. and we do not need to be linked to al-qaida either.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by dgtempe]

oops

[edit on 11-5-2006 by dgtempe]

[edit on 11-5-2006 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by jsobecky

:

They can use your hair to create a mitochondrial mtDNA footprint of you.

They can use your hair to roughly gauge how many minorities live in an area.

They can sell that data to all types of malcontent groups.

etc., etc.
Dont forget, they can also put a hex on you with a strand of your hair. So where are you going with this?

[edit on 11-5-2006 by dgtempe]