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Former NSA Director Nominated to Head CIA

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posted on May, 10 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
marg, you say some things that are very true but then you turn around and say things like this:



Thanks jsobecky, for the first part of the sentence is actually my most honest feelings about what I feel as an American and proud of it.

Now I was a military wife for 22 years.

In the military once you reach the General rank you are not longer a military person you are considered a politician and a career General.

Career generals become most of the time politicians and they will start paving their way into politics with alliances to the party that they chose as the one to follow.

The republican party has always been the one to support the military and military political careers within their General Ranking.

That is why I stand by my original post and the following ones as to call the new CIA candidate a yes man.

He will support anything that the president do and tell him to do if he is to have a future in politics.

Actually a very dangerous thing to do depending the agendas of the president specially in the field in which is to be appoited.




posted on May, 10 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
Warrantless wiretapping of terrorsits is a good policy. I'm unsure why you think it somehow wrong.


True to form, you are putting words in my mouth and arguing with them. If you'd be so kind as to show me where I said that warrentless wiretapping of terrorists is wrong, I would appreciate it. You can't because I didn't say that.

What I DO think is wrong is breaking FISA law, ignoring the 4th amendment and lying to Congress.


Originally posted by jsobecky
The core of the military is that it is built upon discipline and following orders.


Exactly...



For you to say that he would "soil the constitution and the constitutional rights of American citizens " ... You have absolutely no proof that he would act in such a manner.


There most certainly is proof. See link above.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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Benevolent Heretic

No matter how many links you post or how much true you bring to the issues at hand, many people are affected by Political blindness.

They will die first than to agree that they are wrong due to the political ideologies that they hold.

I have no political ideologies but the ones that have to do with the uphold and defense of our constitutional rights.

Any politician or political leader that step over them I don't care what political party they are religion they follow or what believes they hold they are in my eyes nothing more than traitors to our nation and traitors to us the people that voted for them and trusted them.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by marg6043]



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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The proof of bad intentions is very much present. Today's leders view the Constitution as a roadblcok. Something to be gotten around, if at all possible. Withthe FISA court broken, it's only a matter of time 'til the intelligence community has been neutered and brought to heel. That is, after all, what they want.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


For you to say that he would "soil the constitution and the constitutional rights of American citizens " ... You have absolutely no proof that he would act in such a manner.


There most certainly is proof. See link above.


A disagreement, during an interview, over a definition, which, btw is not defined by federal statuory provision or the Constitution, but in reality is entirely a judicial construct, is most certainly not "proof".

It is, at best, a baseless assumption.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Now I was a military wife for 22 years.

In the military once you reach the General rank you are not longer a military person you are considered a politician and a career General.

Career generals become most of the time politicians and they will start paving their way into politics with alliances to the party that they chose as the one to follow.

The republican party has always been the one to support the military and military political careers within their General Ranking.

That is why I stand by my original post and the following ones as to call the new CIA candidate a yes man.

He will support anything that the president do and tell him to do if he is to have a future in politics.


We know and appreciate the years that your husband (and you too.. being a military wife cannot be the easiest job in the world) have dedicated to the country.

And you are correct that at some point, military careers become politically-based. And conservatives are more "hawkish" than liberal "doves", and military leaders share the same conservative philosophy, as a rule.

But you cannot logically jump from those facts to the assumption that General Hayden would "soil our constitution", as you have alleged. It does not follow; it is a non-sequitor.

Men have consciences and characters. And you cannot possibly know how anybody else would act or re-act to a certain situation. That is where I have to disagree with you.

And before I am accused of being "naive", I'll just say, don't bother trying that ruse.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
The proof of bad intentions is very much present.


Once again, I ask you, where is this "proof" of bad intentions?

TLATATO-LP. (This Line Added To Avoid The One-Liner Penalty).



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Men have consciences and characters. And you cannot possibly know how anybody else would act or re-act to a certain situation. That is where I have to disagree with you.

And before I am accused of being "naive", I'll just say, don't bother trying that ruse.


I have never called you naive Js. For our own sake I hope you are right, but so far it has been prof to be the opposite.

We have been questioning the reasons for Goss to resign, perhaps he didn't agree with what has been going on with the administration's doings.

Who knows.

But politicians do what politicians do and most of them sell their souls to the powers than be.

We have seen it over and over again.

JS our political leaders are corrupted and they are no longer for us the people but rather for higher interest and private agendas to benefit the powers they serve.

You can agree or disagree but that is what is going on with our political system, be democrat or republican.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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Goss is caught up in some shady dealing, that's why he resigned. Remember, he was a congressman before he took the cia gig last year. Abramoff is singing like a canary and hookergate is going to hang a bunch of them. If Cunningham was selling defense contracts, you better believe the rest of them were selling whatever influence they had too. And Goss was in the intelligence community, with the influence there.

Putting Hayden in this position means they know there's a fight a.. They think he can protect them in their coverup. Also, a controversial nomination will destract from the woes that got Goss out of there in the first place. All hell's fixing to break loose and just in time for the mid-term elections.

So they're going to push the issues they feel strongest on. But this is the Senate's chance to get to the bottom of domestic spying by the NSA. And which contracts went where.

Even Sen. Spectre (R-PA) said so, a subtle warning from the committee?



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 08:58 PM
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Its funny, everybody is willing to give up whatever freedom necessary to preserve their safety rather then their freedom. I find that extremely interesting for those that feel a terror act can justify anything against the constitution, or even the declaration of independence.

Hope you have taken a good look around and ask yourself "are there worse things then death?" because the way some people in here are talking, your going to find out. I wonder if we have truely forgotten everything this country was founded on, or we just want to destroy it purposely.

We have changed the system that governed us so well, that system was Freedom. Capitalism has replaced it, which a great sector for capitalism is the military sector. Ever watch the movie "Schindlers List"?(sp? for name) He was a business man that was in Nazi germany right before/during WW2. He was talking to his wife toward the begining of the war and was saying to her. "I have had businesses before, but never have they done this good. There was always something missing that no matter what I did it wouldn't have changed the fact this was missing." She asked "is it hard workers?" and he went "no....war, war is what was missing"
basically war is the best way to have businesses rolling and really make money.

So am I worried about about the military running the government, in a capitalistic society...hell yes. But that won't matter to you will it? Nothings wrong till wrong is at your doorstep knocking, thats when reality finally sets in.

Kevin Costner said it best in open range "There are things worse to a man then death"



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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I'm not so sure it's the military that will soon be in charge of our government. The current trend seems to be to neuter the armed services, making them more political and less professional. The last thing our ruling elites want is to see a professional soldiery with a challenging mindselt.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 11:46 PM
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I suppose we have nothing to worry about until generals will be nominated for any new positions in the FBI, DEA, CDC, DHS, ATF, Supreme Court, Trasury department, and so on. Even though it should not be a problem their military experience will be a great value to all of us.



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Benevolent Heretic

No matter how many links you post or how much true you bring to the issues at hand, many people are affected by Political blindness.


It's true you are affected by political blindness!

There is strong evidence that Gen. Hayden is a great choice. But you just cry, "bloody murder" with no evidence to back up your claims.

In the past men in the military have held his position, and the world didn't end, so what's your point?

-- Boat



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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The point is the fact that Hayden represents conflicts of interest if appointed to the CIA. That's how I see it. He was . of the NSA. He authored the "wiretapping program". That means, "domestic wiretapping" that happened on American citizens. He is rendering the FISA court toothless. So, while you think that they are tapping on "foreign" soil, they're going to do what they want when they want within America. And there will be no recourse.

Hayden has too many special interest ties to be able to adequately do his job in an unbiased light.

How I see it is that he was nominated to legitimize the "wiretapping" program before the November elections. And if the Democrats take the House or the Senate back, without a lackey to sweep up the foul residue leaking from that program then, that would make impeachment look more legitimate.

Yes...the extended reach of Karl Rove is quietly doing its handiwork. It's no secret that he "stepped down" at the right time.

I'm just going to watch how Congress is going to vote the man in. And then witness the sweeping of our civil liberties under the rug. Now remember. It is unlawful now for a CIA employee to leak "classified" documents. And, I'm sure there will be other methods in place to penalize "whistleblowers". Just imagine what we wouldn't know now, if there weren't people who had a conscience to bring these abuses to light. I even wonder how those prisoners in Gitmo or Abu Grahib will be treated now.

I truly appreciate Marg's wonderful posts in this thread. And I believe Marg is right in the long run. He is a "yes man" in the worst way possible.



[edit on 11-5-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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What is even more, I just found this article after hearing it on the news:


S ecurity Issue Kills Domestic Spying Probe

WASHINGTON - The government has abruptly ended an inquiry into the warrantless eavesdropping program because the National Security Agency refused to grant Justice Department lawyers the necessary security clearance to probe the matter.

The Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, sent a fax to Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-N.Y., on Wednesday saying they were closing their inquiry because without clearance their lawyers cannot examine Justice lawyers' role in the program.

"We have been unable to make any meaningful progress in our investigation because OPR has been denied security clearances for access to information about the NSA program," OPR counsel H. Marshall Jarrett wrote to Hinchey. Hinchey's office shared the letter with The Associated Press.


Now, are people starting to get a little disturbed with the nomination of Mr. Hayden?



[edit on 11-5-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 01:50 AM
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As you've already seen in this thread, we've got a lot of reason to be disturbed by the nomination of Gen. Hayden.



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 08:27 AM
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psyopswatcher

We all know what is going on with Mr. Goss and his dealings . . . remember been a politician they succumb to the corruption that runs rampant in Washington.

Power corrupt and money will rule the soul of a politician these days.

grimreaper797

thanks for you post it does bring very good inside and honest views.

Our country has been taken over and our constitution completely put aside.

After all the present administration and the president can interpret the constitution any way they want and to assign constitutional rights to the citizens any way they feel they are deserved.

Boatphone

I do not answer to personal geared attacks from members so don’t waste your time.

ceci2006

I am glad that you bring the Illegal wiretapping issue.

Did you heard in the news that the NSA has been literally listening to Americans calls, not only calls over sea but keeping tracks of private phone numbers to look for possible terrorist in the making and publicly have become known and with no shame.

These are phone calls that any American will make including family members in other state.

So the Illegal surveillance was never limited to Suspected terrorist but to any American citizen, millions of American citizens.

Now is open and with no shame, and the sinister thing about it is . . . that the people that are doing this no necessarily Have any clearances to do it.

A president resign for this same doings but now is ok and with no shame.

We have been monitored and can be tag a terrorist under the interpretation given by the people in charge.

This America we live in today.

No wonder the Inquiry on the Illegal wiretapping was put to a stop.

It seems that now the government has been spying on his own legal citizens be terrorist, suspected terrorist or want a be terrorist or grandma and grandpa in Kansas, because we may be calling to much to their telephone numbers.

I am outraged as an American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




[edit on 11-5-2006 by marg6043]



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 09:07 AM
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Hayden the yes man for the Bush administration and its Illegal wiretapping of American citizens.

He has been appointed because he have no integrity when it comes to support and respect the constitution of the US and the rights of Americans to privacy.



Hayden already faced criticism because of the NSA's secret domestic eavesdropping program. As . of the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005, Hayden also would have overseen the call-tracking program.


Yes sir, he will be taking care or all of us and will spy on all of us with our war president's blessing.

www.cnn.com...



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Before you go any further learn what the program was all about. They did not listen to your phone calls nor did they record anyone’s personal information such as names, addresses, and any other identifying sources. Once again, the sky is not falling, so Marge relax.



The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans - most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

Link



Questions and answers about the NSA phone record collection program

Q: Does that mean people listened to my conversations?

A: Eavesdropping is not part of this program.

Q: What was the NSA doing?

A: The NSA collected "call-detail" records. That's telephone industry lingo for the numbers being dialed. Phone customers' names, addresses and other personal information are not being collected as part of this program. The agency, however, has the means to assemble that sort of information, if it so chooses.

Link


[edit on 11-5-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 10:55 AM
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What can i say? West Point,
i admire you.

This gets better and better every day.

:shk:



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