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posted on May, 8 2006 @ 05:15 PM
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Hi guys

Recently I was reading this book




The author is David Allen Rivera who after 25 years of researche wrote this amazing book with over 900 pages about Illuminati, New World Order and Secret Societies.
My question regardes one paragraph of the book in page 91 where the author writes:

On July 4, 1812, Rev. Joseph Willard, the president of Harvard University, said in a speech in Lancaster, New Hampshire: “There is sufficient evidence that a number of societies, of the Illuminati, have been established in this land of Gospel light and civil liberty, which were first organized from the grand society, in France. They are doubtless secretly striving to undermine all our ancient institutions, civil and sacred. These societies are closely leagued with those of the same Order, in Europe; they have all the same object in view. The enemies of all order are seeking our ruin. Should infidelity generally prevail, our independence would fall of course. Our republican government would be annihilated...”

Some how I've read before about Joseph Willard and this paragraph triggered something in my mind so I did a quick search in google. In Wikpedia I found this:

Joseph Willard (December 29, 1738 – September 25, 1804) was a U.S. Congregational clergyman and academic. He was educated at Harvard College (B.A., 1765; M.A., 1768) and served as pastor in Beverly, Massachusetts. In 1780 he was appointed first corresponding secretary of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the following year he became president of Harvard in the midst of the American Revolution.

How can somebody lecture about something in 1812 when he was dead in 1804?

Now I've tried to contact the author of the book and ask him about this confusion but no luck. On the other hand I can't dissmis every thing he wrote in his book only because I've found something that "is not correct". Besides I don't think there are people who can spend 25 years of their lives just for the purpose of misinformation and lies. Does any one of you have more information about the accuracy of this book. I will really appreciate your help.
Thank you





[edit on 8-5-2006 by Telos]




posted on May, 8 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Sounds like a really interesting book, I'd love to read it. I've never heard of either of the men you mentioned above but I did a google search anyway.

en.wikipedia.org...
This link says he was born in 1738 and died in 1804.

www.answers.com...
This link says the same thing.

This probably doesn't really help much but it seems this guy did die in 1804. I'm not sure why the author of the book would've said he gave a speech in 1812.



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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The book is just amazing. If you want to read it, let me know and I will upload somewhere, or I'll try to find the link where I got from. You can try also a emule search or a torrent search.



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by ProudCanadian
This probably doesn't really help much but it seems this guy did die in 1804. I'm not sure why the author of the book would've said he gave a speech in 1812.


Probably just an oversight on his part - or maybe.....shoddy research?



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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Telos, Id be interested in reading this book, any link or upload you can do will be greatly appreciated.



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by tracer
Telos, Id be interested in reading this book, any link or upload you can do will be greatly appreciated.


Ok tracer. I have two versions of this book. The first one is relatively small with about 500 pages and is 1.8 mgb. The second one is the one I've posted here and is a revised edition. 938 pages, 57 mgb, full of pictures and alot of added datas and information.

Here is the link for the first version: Final Warning. New World Order (First Edition)
(look at the very top of the page, the first bar under the tittle of the site).

The second edition I couldn't find a direct link and I had to upload in a server.

Here is the link for the revised edition: Final Warning. New World Order (Revised Edition)


P.S. The second file is through RapidShare. If you didn't use that before just let me know


[edit on 10-5-2006 by Telos]



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 01:09 AM
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I don't know much about uploading but maybe I'll go do a search on google or go to my library and see if they have it (I doubt it).



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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ProudCanadian I'll show you how to donwload the revised edition.

One you click in the second link it will bring you in a webpage and at the middle of this page you have a box with two option, premium and free.




Once you click in the free option is gonna open another window and check carefully in the middle is a countdown time in seconds



When the countdown is finished the page refreshes and at the center you will see the dowloading buton (including a security code). Click there and is done





posted on May, 10 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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Looking for info on this Rev, I found this passage in the New Hampshire Genealogy
1828 Farmer's New-Hamshire
Annual Register

Inducted died or resigned

1781 Rev. Joseph WILLARD, D. D., LL. D. ............1804

But at the top of the page it does not distinguish between resigned or died.

www.usroots.com...



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Thanks for the copy of the book Telos, havent got to reading it yet, but I will soon get into reading it.



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Np tracer


All seeing eye I thought so but is also a line that I haven't written that says: "Willard stayed as Harvard's President till the day he died. Besides is this info here:



Joseph Willard (December 29, 1738 – September 25, 1804)


I don't know what to think. Is there any possibility that wikpedia can be wrong or inacurate?

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Telos]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 06:48 AM
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I appreciate that this has been brought to my attention. Let me first say that the primary research for my book "Final Warning" was done between 1978-84- at which point I attempted to get it published, but couldn't. I then updated and self-published it in 1994. An expanded edition was published in 2004. In preparing the manuscript to submit it to the publisher, I did go over some stuff and corrected it, and removed a couple things that I could not authenticate.

Back in 1994, I had in my possession, many of the sources I used- but now I no longer do, because I sold them to a publisher to get more reference material. Let me also say, that one of the biggest mistakes I made in the preparation of this book, was not properly annotating. I have done that with subsequent works. But at the time I began the research I was in college, and hated to footnote, because it is so time consuming. I used so many references with this book, I felt that all I had to do was to list those references in the Bibliography. I later realized that it was neglegent to do so.

I guess, as a college student, if someone would have explained to me how important it was because of responsibility and credibility- I might have taken the time. But as it was, I spent hundreds of hours in piecing this book together into a cohesive presentation that represents a thorough overview of the Master Conspiracy.

The investment it took to prepare it for publication in 2004 was enough to jeapardize my marriage and alienate my children. Even today, my relationship with my family has never recovered fully from what I've put into this book and my research over nearly 30 years. So, yes, I take my work and my research very seriously.

One of the corrections I made in 2004, was to a date for a speech made by John Swinton in the late 1800's. I actually had a couple references to the date. But researcher Cathy Burns sent me a copy of the actual newspaper clipping that someone had sent her. Though I couldn't ascertain the actual date from the article, it gave me a time frame that differed from the source material I had. In regard to the question at hand about the date of the speech by Rev. Joseph Willard- I am fairly certain where I got that information.

It was a very old source, and I am now in the process of trying to retrieve it through interlibrary loan, and I may try to get a hold of the original handwritten copy from 1984 that a formerly colleague has been holding for me (hopefully), to see if this is a typographical error. Obviously I can't fix the book- but I can correct the online version. My publisher has gone out of business, and soon my book will no longer be available. I have declined to seek another publisher, as the book is on my website to be read free, as well as a couple other places on the Web. My website is www.comingjudgement.250x.com and there you will find the book in its entirety, as well as other research.

As far as getting in touch me- in the past I had my e-mail address on my website, but I had many, many e-mails from people asking my questions about things that were answered in the book, but people didn't want to read to find. People would question my point of view, and my Biblical interpretation. I got threats from witches.

The bottom line, I couldn't keep up with all the e-mails. So, now, I have a page on MySpace that you can reach from a link on my webspace, and many people have gotten in touch with me from there. The source that I believe the quote came from is a very reputable source, and I hopely will soon be able to address this matter. I think that people who study this genre will agree that, for the size of this work, there have been few inaccuracies- because I do take my research seriously. So, I am working on this, and I thank you for bringing this to my attention -- David Allen Rivera[/font]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Gazrok]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 01:46 PM
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Well, my friends, I have been diligently working to answer this question, as it concerns me greatly. My initial thought was that it came from "New England and the Bavarian Illuminati," by Vernon Stauffer, Columbia University Studies in Political Science, Columbia University Press, New York, NY, 1919, vol. 82, no. 1. The state library in Pennsylvania had a copy of it, but no longer do. Luckily I found a copy online, but that is not where the quote came from.

When you Google this quote, every listing uses the July 4, 1812 date. Now, I know a lot of people have read my book- but I don't think that many have or it would be more well-known. I don't know if you've heard of Doc Marquis. He is alleged to have been involved in the Illuminati. A former occultist, he toured as a speaker with the Prophecy Club some years ago, and is touted as an authority on the Illuminati. He also uses the Willard quote, and uses the July 4, 1812 date.

I don't know where I got the quote, but I believe the following source, which I found online, may be the originating source for all the references of this quote: Joseph Willard, President of Harvard University, 4 July 1812, A Sermon Preached in Lancaster...on the Anniversary of Our National Independence...Before the Washington Benevolent Societies of Lancaster and Guildhall (Windsor, Vermont, Thomas M. Pomroy, 1812), pp. 14-15. So, there you have it. The publication of this sermon is the originating source used by the reference I utilized. Others quoting it have used this, or the reference I used.

If Willard did indeed die in 1804, then the original source was wrong. I guess the only way to know for sure is to get a copy of the full text of the original sermon- which because of its age, may be difficult. Harvard University may possibly have this, and possibly even a digital version. After all this, I feel a little better. Not vindicated, but at least this isn't the result of "shoddy" research, or a typographical error on my part. I would like to get to the bottom of it once all. I have tried very hard to protect my credibility, and I will continue to do so.

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 28/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Gazrok]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Gazrok]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 02:00 PM
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Please see the 2 posts I made in response to your inquiry about the quote by Joseph Willard in my book- hopefully this answers your question.

reply to post by Telos
 


Mod Edit: BB Eode.


[edit on 28/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 02:21 PM
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i think there might be two joseph willard's, i found him on the harvard site listed as the orator of the speech involved. i hope this clears up the confusion.

this guy is listed as willard, joesph 1761-1827.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by pieman]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 06:10 AM
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Thank you....yes, this does explain it. I didn't think to check muliple Willards in the same time frame. I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to search out the quote origin, so I'm glad my research continues to stand up to scrutiny. I appreciate your diligence to help clear this up- it means a lot. reply to post by pieman
 




[edit on 8/29/2007 by DavidAllenRivera]

[edit on 8/29/2007 by DavidAllenRivera]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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For the sake of completion, I checked my library, and my source for this quote came from Ralph Epperson's legendary book "The Unseen Hand," page 133, and he doesn't give a source. I'm glad I was able to quickly find this, because it would have bugged me. reply to post by DavidAllenRivera
 



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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Hi David Allen Rivera

I'm glad you read about my concern and I'm even more glad you're a member of ATS. Thnx for answering to my post and explaining the datas regarding Joseph Willard.

p.s. Congratulation for the great book you've wrote. And thank you for sharing that information with us.




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