The mini giant awakens: 'Iran can also be wiped off the map' - Israel

Originally posted by Jakomo
What's good for the goose.... Israel has them, apparently as a "Defensive Weapon".

Iran could use them for the same. They wouldn't even need the 400+ that Israel has, one would do just fine as a deterrent.

Well, I guess we have quite the dilemma on our hands, don't we? Because Israel isn't Iran's only enemy, using the "good for the goose" reasoning, I guess the others will need some nukes as well, as a deterrent. And enemies of Iran's enemies will need some. See where this may head? Hyperproliferation.

Furthermore, Israels government for all intents and purposes is quite secular, and democratic I might add. Where as Irans is radical, fundamental, and apocalyptic.

If we can't tell the difference then we really do have a problem.

I doubt that. Let's take Purim, where Israelis do the following:

Jewish Purim: A Day of Drunkenness, Orgies, and Death

Purim this year falls on March 13-14. As I demonstrate in my audiotape/CD report, numerologically this date also translates to the number 666. Purim is the Jewish-ordained holy day in which the Talmud commands Jews to party and get so drunk they cannot distinguish between good and evil. Purim is also the time when the Jews are encouraged to get bloody revenge against their perceived enemies. Murder, carnage, fiery slaughter and holocaust—history records that almost anything goes on Purim. Sexual orgies are common, and Purim is a regular Bacchanalia of wickedness, cruelty, and debauchery.

Even little Jewish children are encouraged to join in the mayhem, being provided triangle-shaped cookies rep-resenting the ears of ancient enemy Haman and also of modern-day victims. Rabbi Dr. Asher Meir, in a prominent internet article addressing the "Hamantashen" (flesh of Haman) tradition, admits:

"Among the most distinctive features of the Purim festivities are the special pastries known in Hebrew as 'oznei Haman,' literally, ears of Haman..."< td>

Ghoulish isn't it? Jewish children savagely chomping off the "ears of Haman" making noise and furor as they do so. This is a repulsive celebration of fiery racial hatred and pseudo-cannibalism on the part of Jews. Judaizer Christians who continually exalt the Jews as holy examples or who falsely proclaim the Jews as "God's Chosen" people, take notice!

I have NEVER seen any Iranians ever engage in something like this. Nope, no matter how much their leaders are crazy (ie: Ahmadenijed) they don't engage in hateful acts of pseudo-cannibalism using cookies representing Jewish ears. Yet this troglodite event happens to THIS DAY in Israel. Oh, and Iraq was invaded on Purim by the way- what does that tell you?

Let's look at some quotes from supposedly Secular, moderate Israeli leaders :

David Ben Gurion:

"this hatred originates with the [Palestinian] Arab workers in Jewish settlements. Like any worker, the [Palestinian] Arab worker detests his taskmaster and exploiter. But because this class conflict overlaps a national difference between farmers and workers, this hatred takes a national form. Indeed, the national overwhelms the class aspect of the conflict in the minds of the [Palestinian] Arab working masses, and inflames an intense hatred toward the Jews." (Shabtai Teveth, p. 18-19)

They (the Palestinians) have a right only to that which they have created and to their homes." (Shabtai Teveth, p. 38)

David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.
From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978:

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson,
1978, p. 99:

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

Joseph Weitz:

"The only solution is Eretz Israel, or at least Western Eretz Israel (=all the land west of Jordan River), without Arabs. There is no room compromise on this point ... We must not leave a single village, not a single tribe."

M. Begin:

quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25,1982:

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

New Statesman, 25 June 1982:

"We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return."

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."- Speech to the Knesset

More:

"It is forbidden to sell apartments in the Land of Israel to Gentiles." Mordecai Eliayaho, the Israeli Chief Rabbi commenting on an attempt by a Palestinian to buy an apartment owned by the Jewish National Fund in East Jerusalem. Ha'aretz January 17, 1986.

"Jewish blood and a goy's (gentile's) blood are not the same." Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Inferring that killing isn't murder if the victim is Gentile. Jerusalem Post, June 19,1989.

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, head of the Kever Yossev Yeshiva (school of Talmud) in Nablus stated:

"The blood of the Jewish people is loved by the Lord; it is therefore redder and their life is preferable."

Yitzhak Ginsburg, "Five General Religious Duties Which Lie Behind the Act of the Saintly, Late Rabbi Baruch Goldstein:
"The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it."

Is this the picture of moderation, tolerance, and democracy the media gives us? Is this a joke? How can you say these people are any better than Iran's president or Saddam Hussein? There is ZERO moral superiority here.

I don't know what external source you're using, but I really don't believe that Purim is celebrated that way. It is based on the Biblical Book of Esther. To make a long story short, Haman try's to have the Jew's exterminated and through God's providence (who is never mentioned in the book) the Jewish people are saved. Reason for a celebration right?

The purpose of the cookie's is to remember their enemy who almost destroyed them (kind of a B.C. style Hitler). I just hope you never find out about Halloween, you might really get scared!

As far as your quote's from the past, every DEMOCRATIC government has left wing and right wing voice's. My point is, you don't here Olmert or Peres threatening to annihilate other countrie's just because they're Islamic. They will however respond to threat's.

First, I know Purim, and these ear cookies were never ordained by God (a feast in the fashion of passover was the sole thing established in Esther, the Talmudist hysteria is a whole other matter). Second, these are Israel's leaders. How can anybody honestly say these type of comments are any better than what Iran's prez spouts? Yes, I know about Halloween (and it makes these Purim medievel orgies look like childs play of course).

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Nakash]

Nakash, im not sure who wrote that source you pasted but it is a perfect demonstration of how anti-semites twist Jewish words and deeds to make them look sinister when in fact they are not. Of course you did not provide a link to that article, Id like to see it because then we can all see the true nature of the site it came from. I’m sure you get what I’m saying here..

First,
Purim cookies have yes been called Hamnas ears but most often they are called Hamans pockets, and they usually represent his 3 cornered hat. Even if they were meant to represent an actual ear how is that any different than "the bread of Jesus" in communion?? It is a FAR stretch to say that they are in any way condoning cannibalism.

Second,
You just come right out and say that "orgies are common" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
This is just an outright lie and actually quite laughable.


Third,
Yes it is permitted to drink to excess on Purim. The saying is as follows. "... until he dies not know the difference between 'cursed be Haman; and 'blessed be Mordechai'." There is still debate over how drunk this actually is, HOWEVER,
Violating a commandment while drunk is still forbidden and if a person knows he cannot control him or herself while intoxicated then they are not to drink to that point. The law is quite clear on this.


Your post shows nothing but blatant anti-semitism. You try to make yourself look credible by including some facts and then twist the rest to suit your agenda.


[edit on 12-5-2006 by kokoro]

Originally posted by Nakash

I have NEVER seen any Iranians ever engage in something like this. Nope, no matter how much their leaders are crazy (ie: Ahmadenijed) they don't engage in hateful acts of pseudo-cannibalism using cookies representing Jewish ears. Yet this troglodite event happens to THIS DAY in Israel.

Nakash to be fair..Iran still stones people to death for certain things so this is not a good example.


For those of you asking Nakash to post his sources, Im sure if he did you would probably deny it anyway. Rest assured, the hatred is mutual from both sides and maybe when people start realizing this is not just a one-sided hate affair things may progress rather then trying to point the finger at one side. We shouldn't need sources to state the obvious. The old saying of actions speak louder then words should always apply when it comes to politicians and their double-talk. Walking into a crowd of people with a bomb strapped to your body does not show an affection, but then again neither does rolling over the body of a 5 year old with a 20ton tank either. We shouldn't need sources to KNOW that there is hatred from both sides. I don't need quotes from famous people to tell me these things that I can see with my eyes.


Pie

I agree that there have been wrongs done by the Isreali govenment in its dealings with the Palestinians just as there have been wrongs done on the Palestinian side. I in no way have redered Israel blameless . My request for him to post his source was in relation to the article describing (most inaccurately) the purim celebration and its meanings.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by kokoro]

OK:

First, orgies are and were quite common in Purim:


"A person is obligated to become inebriated (drunk) on Purim"
-Megilla 76, Talmud

Second, I personally believe eating a cookie shaped as an Arab's ear in an act of pseudo-cannibalism going "curse you Hamom" but susbstituting an ancient tyrant's name with a person you hate is to say the least a provocation and indignity which I cannot ignore.

Third, I will not spend hours here on irrelevant "who said what, did X say that" type of discussions, there are plenty of outrageous citations out there, but it is a cheap argumentation trick which will serve nothing. I DO wish to point out that many of Israel's leaders on a daily basis spout these commentaries while in hypocrisy condemning Iran's president for equal behaviour.

Fourth: I know full well Iran is a haven of all sorts of intolerant behaviour but:

Matthew 7:1-5
“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.

I will not be a hypocrite and turn my eye to others doing the exact same mistakes.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Nakash]

Sheesh, talk about gobbldeygoop. Of course you would like to excuse yourself, since you have been shown to be inept. Still no link then?

You attack my character, yet you know I am correct on this affair. I am not a hypocrite who will sit back as a bunch of Zionists condemn Arabs for the exact same behaviour they engage in.

Here's a source on Zionist hate speech:

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

I believe you'll remain busy for quite a while.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Nakash]

The scary thing about the situation in that part of the world is not just how all these unstable countries like Iran have nuclear or near nuclear capability, but that actually is just a problem that obscures the really scary bomb of this region. The population bomb has already exploded on this planet and we are already feeling the fallout...huge chunks of the population without access to clean water and decent sewage systems, more and more of the poorest countries have become failed nation-states that depend on outside help and are run by warlords who extort the aid workers.

The nuclear equation might actually be the answer to our problems, we really need to clear out alot of dead wood on this planet and if it takes a limited or unlimited nuclear exchange between four to six of the mid-level countries we probably would be better off. Of course if South Korea and Pakistan and India and Israel and Iran disappears tommorow, we would have to find new sources for alot of our computer chips, and various other things made by this whole region. If China and India has a nuclear exchange, which at this juncture looks very unlikely but these two countries do have alot of the same escalating needs and will be butting heads on some of the issues for sure. If they have a nuclear exchange things could get prettty ugly too. China is now making just about everything that a huge part of the world is buying too. Meanwhile the average American is still driving two ton behomeths ridiculous distances everyday, guzzling gas like theres no tommorow. I just can't figure out how people can afford this kind of vehicle these days.

Nakash according to many sources the origins and the practices of Purim are contradicting to your previous posting.
Wikepedia
Everything Jewish

Meanwhile, a power-hungry courtier named Haman is appointed as the King’s new Prime Minister. Haman quickly passes an edict that all must bow before him. Mordechai incurs the wrath of Haman by refusing to bow. After complaining to his wicked wife, Zeresh, Haman decides to take revenge on Mordechai by convincing King Achashverosh to decree that all Jews be executed. Lots are cast and a day is chosen for the annihilation of the Jews. That day, of course, was the 14th of Adar, the day we celebrate Purim.

Mordechai tells Esther that it is because of Hamans evil plan that she, a Jewish woman, has become queen and that she must plead with the king to save her people. After some initial reluctance, Esther agrees, and in preparation, she and her people fast and pray for three days requesting Divine assistance.

When she is finished, she has a plan. Esther decides to visit the king uninvited, an act punishable by death, and invite the king and Haman to a special banquet. At the banquet she eludes Achashverosh’s questions and invites the king and Haman to a second banquet.

Haman is elated that he is so honored, and hurries home to tell his wife. On his way, he bumps into Mordechai. Haman can’t wait for the day of the planned massacre, and at the advice of his wife, he erects huge gallows in his yard. He rushes back to request the king’s permission to hang Mordechai the next morning.

That night, King Achashveyrosh had trouble sleeping. To pass the time, he asks that his book of chronicles be read out loud. The chapter read to him is about the time Mordechai revealed an assassination plot against him. He is told that Mordechai was never rewarded. Haman, who just happened to be in the palace, overheard the king wondering how to reward such a man.

Haman, who assumed the King wanted to honor him, advises the king that the lucky one should be adorned in the king’s robes and crown, paraded through the streets on the king’s horse, and proclaimed as the king’s honored subject.

The king likes Haman suggestion so much, he informs him that he is to lead Mordechai through the streets of Shushan, the capital. Haman, is stunned, but has no choice but to fulfill the King’s orders.

After this humiliation, Haman attends Esther’s second banquet. It is there that Esther reveals that she is Jewish and exposes Haman as the evil plotter against her people. The king is so angry that he orders Haman killed. However, the king is unable to rescind Haman’s decree against his Jewish subjects since it already bears the king’s seal. Instead, he allows the Jews to arm themselves and fight.

So, on the thirteenth of Adar, the Jews defeat their enemies in the provinces, and on the thirteenth and fourteenth of Adar, the Jews defeat their enemies in Shushan and in the cities.

The day turned from grief and mourning to one of joy for the Jewish people when Haman and his 10 sons were killed on the very gallows erected to kill Mordechai and the Jews. In fact, the joy of Purim is so great, we are told, that even in Messianic times, unlike other holidays, Purim will be celebrated.
_________________________________________________________________
The story of Purim presents the eternal story of the Jew threatened in a strange land. For this reason we are commanded to read the Book of Esther. Still in exile, Purim is a reminder that we, as Jews, must resist becoming too complacent in our lives.

There really is not much about drunken orgies and violent acts.
Here are a group of people who celebrated this year. Dont see much of what you claimed.

Here is another group here enjoying festive activities.

Personally i hope Iran does get nukes because they're retarded enough to give one to a terrorist to do his bidding for Allah and all that suicidal BS. Rocks at ground zero will show the level of plutonium used and we'll be able to tell where they were mined and what country is responsible. The response will be the complete and total annihilation of that country with nukes in turn. Iran's sand would be melted into glass from the sheer heat of such a response. Iran would become one big parking lot of #ing glass.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Point taken. But aren't we talking about apples and oranges here?

No, we are talking Apples and Apples, nations that are comparable to each other in many ways but are put under different categories. One is seen as Good, the other is seen as the stereotypical Baddie.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
I mean Israel has had their nukes for decades and not a peep out of them. Iran gets close and the threats to annihilate Israel are non stop.

Actually, Israel threatened Egypt with nukes in the '73 War, but they have been covert with their nukes aside from that it is agreed, to detract attention, ruined by the Venanu whistleblowing.

Iran's leadership have had a war with words with Israel since the Revolution of '79.

To give credence to their words gives credence to them, Iran's leadership knows that if they nuke Israel, they will get 10, 100 times worse back in return.

They may be religious, but they are still humans at the end of the day, who savour the opulence power brings, like all world leaders, and they want to live to use it. They cherish their lives, and for all the rhetoric, life and power is something they favour.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEarFurthermore, Israels government for all intents and purposes is quite secular, and democratic I might add.

Debatable. Secular? Israel's very existence is not secular, it is based on the belief of the promised land, a religious belief founded upon that intent and purpose.

The West Bank and Gaza settlements are an extension of this view.

Democratic? Will we see a Israeli Arab as PM? Or a Israeli Christian?

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Where as Irans is radical, fundamental, and apocalyptic.

Radical is a perception, differing in viewpoint is another.

Israel can be viewed as radical.

Fundamental? Yes, so are many governments. Israel, US.....

Apocalyptic?

All religions believe in Armegeddon, they have different names for it.

Does not mean they want to see it.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar If we can't tell the difference then we really do have a problem.

Wrong. If we can't see the comparisons and the double standards and seek to resolve this then we continue to have a problem.

A very big problem.

Originally posted by Nakash
OK:

First, orgies are and were quite common in Purim:

No, in fact they are not!! You have no valid proof of this and it is utterly rediculous. Orgies and the like are forbidden by Judaism.

"A person is obligated to become inebriated (drunk) on Purim"
-Megilla 76, Talmud

I already stated that was true. However I also stated that you were still not allowed to break any commandments while drunk.

Second, I personally believe eating a cookie shaped as an Arab's ear in an act of pseudo-cannibalism going "curse you Hamom" but susbstituting an ancient tyrant's name with a person you hate is to say the least a provocation and indignity which I cannot ignore.

Again you have no proof that any substitution of names occurs. In fact it does not.
You will not reveal your sources becuase they are not valid. Quoting an obviuosly anti-semetic website as to what Jews do or dont do on thier holidays is hardly "evidence". You can believe whatever you want of course, that is your choice but you have been grossly misinformed and I take offence at your attempt ot make the Jewish people look like cannibals and murderers. Have there been some murderers? yes, have there been some things done wrong by thier goverment? yes. But that does not make Jews as a group bad people, there are bad people in all religions and races. For you to sit there and say that "Jews" practice cannabalism and have orgies is utter garbage. People have made up crap like this and worse about Jews for centuries yet no one has any proof, wonder why that is??

I don't know who told you that allah and the God of Isreal are the same God. They are far from it. You only need to read the koran and the Bible/torah to see that. This is a big misconception. Jews have been worshiping the God of Abraham,Isacc and Jacob for thousands of years. Check it out Islam and allah are a relativly new religion and god. and have not owned the land of Isreal...EVER. It has always belonged to God and HE gave it to Isreal. They have a right to excist and they will never cease to be a nation, their neighbors better get used to it. However I do feel for the arabs that have been misplaced, they have lived there for many generations, but that land is still not theirs. They must learn to live in peace with Isreal, but I know this can never be, you see, Isreal will never move out. and the arabs will not live in a true peace with Isreal, if they did then the koran is wrong(which states they are to rule and all are suject to Islam) This can never be ... to them. So you see this will continue until there is, and I beleive there will absolutly be a war, most likely nucular war in the middle east. These are not scare tactics both sides are threatening this is reality, they will use nukes if nessary. only in our part of the world are we so sheltered to think these are just threats. But there may be for a short time a false peace, we shall see.....

Originally posted by Aelita
Israel was the one who started the nuclear arms race in the Middle East.
It's a fact no matter houw you slice it.

Sort of, but not really.

What threat made Israel decide it needed nuclear weapons as a deterant?
The threats got so big that Israel went nuclear in response. So you could
actually say that the threats against Israel are what started the nuclear
arms in the Middle East. If those threats didn't exist ... neither would
Israel's nuclear arms.

Then if you want, you can go back even further ... the threats that made
bigger threats that made bigger threats ... the little scrums that made
counter scrums that made counter battles that made even more bigger
counter battles ....

It cascades.

Originally posted by Jakomo
FlyersFan:

The middle east would be a mess with
or without America. America has only been around for a
few hundred years. The Middle East has been a mess
for 5,000 years.

Void of fact, any historical info, and purely 100% opinion.
The Middle East has been a mess for 5000 years so it can’t
be America’s fault. How delightfully pre-school.

Jakomo, Jakomo, Jakomo. Poor li'l guy. Re-read what I said.

I said that the middle east would be a mess WITH, or WITHOUT, America.
I didn't say that it wasn't America's fault. There are some things that
America has done to inflame the situation.

You accuse me of not providing facts. Again. Reread what I posted.
The math is very simple. The Middle East has been a mess for
5,000 years and America has only been around for 225 +/-.
THAT is a fact.

It was a mess before we came along. It is a mess now that we
are here. It'll be a mess no matter what the demographics of
the planet are hundreds of years from now. It's the nature of
the world. That's not opinion. That's fact.

As for your 'preschool' comment.

Debatable. Secular? Israel's very existence is not secular, it is based on the belief of the promised land, a religious belief founded upon that intent and purpose.

If they're operating from a religious perspective, then they're doing a pretty poor job. The Biblical land's they were promised are huge compared to that little sliver they're trying to defend now!

If they really believed what God told them, they would have seized ALL Biblical land as soon as they had the nuke's. Who would have stopped them? I don't here anything coming from them that indicate's a belief in divine protection. (unfortunately)

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by nephyx
Iran is a terrorist nation because it is a known supporter of Al quadia operations throughout the middle east.

Please provide references to solid data supporting this claim, or admit that it's either a pure specultion or a lie.

There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will wipe off this stigma (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world," Ahmadinejad told students Wednesdays during a Tehran conference called "The World without Zionism."

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury (while) any (Islamic leader) who recognizes the Zionist regime means he is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world," Ahmadinejad said.
Speech by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
AP , October 26, 2005 www.jpost.com...




“Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism”, the U.S. State Department said in its annual Country Reports on Terrorism for the year 2005.
www.iranfocus.com...


At the very least Iran is guilty of inciting violence