Originally posted by smallpeeps
Israel's neighbors have started wars against them? When did that happen?

As soon as Israel declared independence, smallpeeps.

I think the "start" of the mideast problem was when the Balfour declaration gave the mid east to Hertzl and the Zionists.

Then, apparently, your problem is with the British and the United Nations and not Israel.

Let's also talk about Eichmann's comments regarding the Zionists who collaborated with the Nazis to keep the death camps orderly. and to save their chosen friends Also, weren't Zionists the only group allowed to co-exist with the National Socialists during the war? I believe they were. Why's that?

Ad hoc argument along the same lines as one showing you evidence that the Nazis and so-called Palestinians were in consort to eliminate the Jews, even before the mass return of Jews to reform the nation of Israel. Plug in "Grand Mufti + WWII" in your favorite search engine anytime, k?

And if that state is foisted upon the world and intitates a nuclear exchange in the mid east, Israel will not be seen as the victim in all eyes of the world.

Key word there, smallpeeps, "if".

The world will not need to "do" anything about it. If a nuke goes off in the mid east, the results will speak for themselves. I am saying that world sympathy will not be entirely with Israel.

Thats dependent upon who fired them first, eh?

The UK used the Palestine natives in WW1 then settled Jews there with powerful entrenchment.

Hitler and Germany sure got their use out of those alleged "Palestinians, huh?

Those Jews treated the natives like lesser beings, as their law allows them to do. They wouldn't trade with them, wouldn't allow the natives to work, etc.

As Muslims treated the existing Jews there, as well?

I am saying that these things are also known to "the world", and when history is written, and the powder keg of the mid east goes off, it will be Israel who is seen as having tried to take advantage of collaboration with the victors (and losers) of both world wars.

That, of course, is according to your own world history.






seekerof

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Besides, Israel had nukes PRIOR to the six day war. Read on adventurer...

Link your qualified source there, dear adventurer.

I don't deny the holocaust, but I find the use of it to justify a nuke-armed state to be reprehensible. Don't you?

Umm, let me weigh this a moment.......no?

Frankly, the idea that H-bombs can prevent a repeat of the holocaust is ludicrous.

Has, thus far, huh?

So this is the global sort of behavior that you support, Nygdan? Please enlighten me as to how this advances the idea of world peace.

Apparently, you have issue with Israel having nukes? Tissue?
Is Israel part of the NPT?
Either advocate a nuke free world or get off Israel having nukes. Israel is not signatory of the NPT, Iran is.

World opinion does matter because more often than not, humans want peace and not war. History will always look at warmongers as evil, even if it takes a hundred years for that warmongering to be revealed. Some nations are better at being sneaky than others, but the less sneaky nations, who are up front and peace loving, are generally respected MORE than the sneaky nations.

And your point is what?
Here's a factoid for you: since the time that history has been written/recorded, there have been only 29 years in which conflict or war did not occur. So your "warmonger" diatribe is simply that. Must have been an over abundance of "warmongers" in this world's history, eh?

Only those wars which are propogated by their occupation. Occupation of a territory is not legal, in spite of how powerful your allies are, or how non-powerful the natives are.

What territory is illegially occupied, smallpeeps? That which the UN sanctioned or that which was won over from the Arab and Israeli wars?

It was wrong for Americans to dehumanize and kill natives in their occupied territory also.

You certainly have no issue with the Europeans 'rape' of the Americas' prior America being formed, huh, smallpeeps, since of course, you failed to mention that and the millions they killed?

Can Americans leave? No, but they can placate the natives. Can Israel move? Not really, but they can placate the natives.

Just as the natives can placate?

Is that the sort of history book you read?

The same question can be asked of you, smallpeeps. Apparently, your history book attempts to hold the moral highground?




seekerof

Isreal has had nuclear capability for nearly as long as the US has.

MI6 over the weekend reported that "pakistaini" nuclear scientist from the AQ Khan group were actively supporting Irans drive for NUKES.

One does not see street protests in Israel chanting "death to iran".

Nor does the Israeli PM state openly the desire to wipe out Islam.

I view Iran as the "Planet ender". The center of terrorisim worldwide.

I can only Pray Israel and/or the US has the "will" to act..............

Originally posted by Sep
Thanks. After the "famous phrase", he says, "We should be aware of those who wish to initiate conflicts. For more than 50 years, the heads of the powerful governments, who force their will on others [this part is only one word, like trouble seekers, but refers to people who have the power as well as the will to start a conflict] and who wish to initiate conflicts, have done everything in their power to legitimise and confirm to power this false and illegitimate regime [uses the exact word regime, which is the same in Persian]". I think this makes it clear that he is referring to the government of Israel and not the entire nation.

Yeah, of course, SEP, hard for me to imagine that you would say anything different.
Btw, I will ask you the same thing that I asked Malichai: When are you and/or him going to get around to emailing that/those excusing articles to all the world leaders that took what the Iranian president said at face value and condemned it, so that they can send their apologies in misinterpreting what he literally said?

Here's a thought, instead of you all making excuses for him by attempting to believe that he meant one thing when he meant another, how about simply get President Ahmanutjob to make it clear what he meant, publically? Certainly, that would clear up the mass confusion in what he was implying, eh?




seekerof

thermopolis

hhahahahahaha
If iran was to take on the role of sending out terrorists to laucnch attacks against western targets u wouldnt be able to sleep at night.

secondly if Isreal has nukes why shouldnt iran have them?
Isreals not exactly premoting peace by constantly attacking da palestinians. Its sort of makes u wonder what theyll do if they controlled Iran

people underestimate iran IF the US/Isreal could have done anyfin to Iran theyd have done it in 1979.

Originally posted by rizla
Madeline Albright was on John Stewart and described a meeting she had with Bush. She said she thought they were going to try it again.

G.W. isn't going to tell Albright anything. She's a hasbeen from the
Clinton years. Stewarts COMEDY show is funny, but he gets it screwed up
from time to time. He reported, as fact, that AirForce One got
spray painted and he also reported, as fact, that faked note from
the president asking Dr. Rice for permission to go to the bathroom
during a meeting.

Israel simply got tired of hearing all the anti-Israel crap coming out
of Iran and everywhere else. As the earlier poster said - you've got
3rd graders yelling at each other in the school yard. The bullies
all pick on one kid and the kid, who is usually silent, got tired of it
and yelled back.

Only thing ... in this case 'the kid' getting picked on has nuclear weapons.

Frankly - bullies need to get bloody noses once in a while. Talking and
reasoning with school yard bullies never works. Perhaps it's time for
all the kids to finally get it out of their system ... beat the heck out of
each other and see who's left standing.

My money is on 'the kid' with the nukes.
Whatever. I don't think peace is possible over there.



[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
My money is on 'the kid' with the nukes.
Whatever. I don't think peace is possible over there.

If you are right, we are in for a major and possibly nuclear conflict in the Middle East in the next few years. You see, Iran will certainly bolster its nucleare program, quietly accumulate the technology and then will just make a concentrated effort to get the nuclear capability. Since it's the Israeli's worst nightmare, they'll do something about it before it's too late.

I read an article about Iran (or its leadership) willing to take hude losses if it advances their cause. Watch out.

These morons just see a threat to their schoolyard, a little upstart looking to start his own game of dodgeball, and so they're thinking about going to beat the # out of him and his little girlfriend too. I think it's all unbelievably childish, and I seriously doubt that Iran would preemptively strike anyone, they are thinking human beings you know, and committing such irresponsible suicide such as that is such an unrealistic and insane notion that I'll no longer even pause to stop and consider it.

If anyones going to be lobbing nukes, it would be the boys on our side in a rash act. And if not that, then it'll be some bombs and gunnings for sure. Bush is already trying to start rationalizing large scale combat and losses.

Ridiculous and dangerous, but such is life when there hasn't been any real hardship and when men think they're invincible...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Anyway, IMO WW3 is planned to be between Jew and Muslim so that the Abrahamists can have the globe.

Mmm agreed, and I believe Nostradamus did predict that Israel would be defeated by the arabs and lose her airforce. That's good enough for me ... if we're playing this game that is *sigh*

Oh and let me be the first to welcome you all to the United Sates Of Israel


[edit on 9-5-2006 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by truthseeka
The Israel lovers run the mouths constantly about the holocaust this and holocaust that. .... All they want to do is run their mouths about how "every one hates the joooos. Those poor joooos. The dirty A-rabs want to kill all the joooos." Pretending like the Zionists represent all Jews and like all Jews support Israel. EVERY ONE OF YOU who do this is FULL OF CRAP! Yeah, I said it.

I remember the Israel lovers foaming at the mouth ...

More than a bit antisemetic

You have a fixation with mouths, don't you. Seems your favorite thing
is telling people who have different opinions than yours that they are
'running their mouths'.

You deserve a hit with a warning for this junk.
But hey .. at least you are showing your true spirit for all to see.


[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

What happened here, is that Israel and the USA don't REALLY want peace, because then they would make no money.

EDIT:

Yes, they think they are invincible. But that is just an illusion. I deal with people who behave in this way where they think they own the world and can do everything they want, very often, and I can usually talk them into giving up before anything violent occurs. It takes most men about 2 tries to change their mind, women turn much easier. Every once in a while, who you know and who you give money to, who is corrupt and how many lawyers or police you have on your side, matters none, because they aren't there, or you will never reach them untill you have been disposed of. That's the way Israel and the USA have to think about this. They are outnumbered, outgunned and outsmarted now. All they have left is their foolish pride. And pride gets people killed.
Iran has shown greatness in this matter, by offering peaceful exits, and has not lost face even once. But Israel and the USA have lost all credibility. Soon they will loose all support, and then everything alse.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Christian IX]

Seekerof, your bias is showing. No, it's not showing, it's glaring. You've been shown the accurate translation of Ahmadinejad's words from Farsi to English and yet insist on accepting a version of his words that is not an accurate translation.

Who was it that said, "If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." That applies here and to your plethora of sources who've said the same thing.

You might gain some ground by showing, if it's possible, that the popular and highly inflammatory translation of Ahmadinejad's words is accurate. Instead, you seem to blindly accept a popular but discredited version which supports Israel, the West's agenda, and further escalation of the conflict of words toward a lethal exchange of WMDs.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by truthseeka
The Israel lovers run the mouths constantly about the holocaust this and holocaust that. .... All they want to do is run their mouths about how "every one hates the joooos. Those poor joooos. The dirty A-rabs want to kill all the joooos." Pretending like the Zionists represent all Jews and like all Jews support Israel. EVERY ONE OF YOU who do this is FULL OF CRAP! Yeah, I said it.

I remember the Israel lovers foaming at the mouth ...

More than a bit antisemetic

You have a fixation with mouths, don't you. Seems your favorite thing
is telling people who have different opinions than yours that they are
'running their mouths'.

You deserve a hit with a warning for this junk.
But hey .. at least you are showing your true spirit for all to see.


[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

The Zionist catchphrase strikes again!

I LOVE it! ANYTIME you criticize Israel, you are an anti-Semite. But, if you criticize any of the various Arabic countries, you are NOT an anti-Semite. Rofl!

Just shows me that too many people are uneducated when it comes to what a Semite actually is. I KNOW I've said this numerous times here, but I'll say it again: ARABS ARE SEMITIC PEOPLE TOO! So, each and every one of you who criticize Arabic countries are anti-Semites! There! How do you like that, you anti-Semites! You people who don't like or criticize Arabs are anti-Semites!



Well, I guess I can't blame you. The Zionists have hijacked this term, just like they use the Holocaust to their advantage. For shame. Why people defend these openly racist pieces of human detritus is beyond me.

Ok, FlyersFan...

Since you are ignorant on what a Semite is and you actually meant that I am anti-Israeli/Jew, I'll answer as if you had said it proper.

I guess it is anti-Jewish to point out that the Zionists allowed the Nazis to kill Jews. It's anti-Jewish to point out that the Zionist group in charge of rescuing Jews from Europe and bringing them to Israel wouldn't do it if they had to pay for it. It's anti-Jewish to point out that the Labor Zionists funded Hitler.

Well, you got me there. All that stuff is actually anti-Jewish. It's anti-Jew to criticize the killing of Jews, I know. I need to work on my double-think.

Originally posted by truthseeka
The Zionists have hijacked this term, just like they use the Holocaust to their advantage. For shame. Why people defend these openly racist pieces of human detritus is beyond me.

If it smells, tastes, looks, talks, and denys like an anti-Semite, it probably is a anti-Semite.





seekerof

Originally posted by truthseeka
Since you are ignorant ......

You want me to change the phrase .. gladly ...
You are anti-Jew ... and as far as I'm concerned
you still deserve a warning.

[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by truthseeka
The Zionists have hijacked this term, just like they use the Holocaust to their advantage. For shame. Why people defend these openly racist pieces of human detritus is beyond me.

If it smells, tastes, looks, talks, and denys like an anti-Semite, it probably is a anti-Semite.





seekerof

Hey.

Wish I could say I expected more from you, Seekerof, but I didn't. Thanks for not letting me down.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Hey.

Wish I could say I expected more from you, Seekerof, but I didn't. Thanks for not letting me down.

Hey, given the look, taste, feel, and deny comments that you have made already within this thread, you should be the one worried about letting someone down and you can best bet that many here expected more from you. Thanks for letting those of us down, but hey, I guess it was "expected"?





seekerof

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by truthseeka
Since you are ignorant ......

You want me to change the phrase .. gladly ...
You are anti-Jew ... and as far as I'm concerned
you still deserve a warning.

[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

See above reply.

Care to explain why I am anti-Jew? Is it because Israel represents the Jewish population of the earth? Wait, Christians AND Muslims live in Israel, too. Is it because all Jews support Israel? Wait, not all do.

Oh, I get it. It's because I have the nuts to point out that Labor Zionists funded Hitler. Or that Zionists didn't give a damn about saving Jews unless somebody else footed the bill. Well, I'm gonna keep going, because I ain't scared to point this stuff out.

There were a substantial number of JEWISH NAZIS! HITLER was likely part Jewish! The Rothschilds, a JEWISH FAMILY, funded Hitler! Yeah, that's all stuff you people with the Zionist catchphrase don't dare discuss, but you're MORE than happy to debate how the Holocaust was all about the Jews.

I guess in a way, it kinda was...

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by truthseeka
Hey.

Wish I could say I expected more from you, Seekerof, but I didn't. Thanks for not letting me down.

Hey, given the look, taste, feel, and deny comments that you have made already within this thread, you should be the one worried about letting someone down and you can best bet that many here expected more from you. Thanks for letting those of us down, but hey, I guess it was "expected"?






seekerof

Wtf are you talking about? Oh, right, you don't believe that Arabs are Semitic people . Well, if you're not willing to research what Semite actually means, there's nothing I can do.

So, what is it? Feel free to quote posts of mine that fit what you are saying.