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Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
I think if you systematically ignore every Mason, OTOer, and Witch, then this site starts to make a bit more sense..
Good work those of you who have rallied to the call of an end to the satanic manipulation of our world.
Oh and here's a thought, there are some people posting on this site who are LYING to protect their brotherhood. With a death threat oath hanging over your head you would do just about anything... no, in fact, you would do anything.
Thing is I won't ignore these guys, I'm keeping my eyes on the poop level, to make sure it doesn't overflow .
Funny how they attack my credibility even when I post a real live proper news story.
But then that's all I've ever done.
My only agenda is the future of the human race.
With the mason, there is no future, only hell.
[edit on 9-5-2006 by Edelweiss Pirate]
Originally posted by smallpeeps
What's funny is these people who defend Masons. Can someone please explain to me why the world's most powerful fraternity needs to be defended
What conclusion? [...] Do you think this is an isolated event? Your answer will tell me all I need to know about you.
Originally posted by smallpeeps
Even when it is clearly shown that two Masons conspired to molest, this does not cause the Masonic defenders to pause. No, they just wail, "Shameful! This is not Masonry at all, but just a couple of rogues!"
Originally posted by smallpeeps
As I have said, Masonry (or any fraternity) is always able to reward its members. Would George Washington be such a great man if he were not a Mason? As I recall, the indians said Washington had guardian angels protecting him and he couldn't be shot on the battlefield. Seems to me that Masons benefited from having him as a member, not vice versa. I have asked Masons, for example, if Albert Pike would have been a less-great man if he'd not known Masonry. I wonder if people are able to find supreme enlightenment without Masonry? No answer yet from Masons.
... it seems to me that Masonry exists for those whose own lives and their place in the world are not sufficient, and who want to believe in a larger structure that will surpass them when they die. They want so badly to believe that their mundane existance has a greater meaning. ...I am speaking of course of those Masons who DO NOT join just for graft and reward.
The Masons I know, do not have some superior attitude. They tell me the lodges are filled with old men and they are simply part of it because their status in life afforded them an invitation to join (dad was a member, etc).
On the contrary, I find much pleasure in being apart from that fraternity, and all fraternities. I do not pledge myself to anyone or any group.
Originally posted by smallpeeps
And yes, I know Masons and yes, I have read the books by Masons...
...and yes, I was in a religion founded by a Mason (Charles Taze Russell) and I am sure you know the blood/name Russell and how powerful it has been through history. Also you may know that this man was ALSO accused of sex with children. Also that his church has a massive molestation scandal which they are trying to hide.
from: www.religioustolerance.org...
Placing abuse in perspective:
Since the year 2000, evidence has emerged of widespread child sexual abuse within the Roman Catholic Church, and of subsequent payoffs and cover-ups by the church. Some evidence of sexual abuse within the Watchtower Society (WTS) has also appeared in the media in recent years. What is missing is a measure of balance.
Sexual abuse is found throughout society. Approximately 1% of girls are so abused by their fathers before puberty, and about 1% by their step-fathers. Abuse of boys is at a lower level. There is really no reliable data which demonstrates whether religion plays a role in this phenomenon. We have never located any trustworthy evidence that sexual abuse of children is higher or lower in the WTS and Roman Catholic Church than in other faith groups or in society as a whole.
from: en.wikipedia.org...
In recent times, Russell has been accused of having had close ties with Freemasonry. Critics have not only attempted to connect him with any of several different rites of the Free Masons, but have also attempted to show that such associations are connected with occult practices. It has been pointed out that in later editions of his Studies in the Scriptures series a winged solar disk appears on the front cover, which some have claimed is an exclusively Masonic symbol. In his writings, Russell stated that membership in Freemasonry, Knights of Pythias, Theosophy, and other similar groups are unscriptural. He also denied having direct knowledge of Masonic practices. His use of the winged solar-disk originated from his understanding that Malachi 4:2, (which denotes a sun with wings), is a symbol that Christ's millennial Kingdom had begun.
Originally posted by Nygdan
I would like to note that I still haven't received even a preliminary response from any of the organizations that I emailed.
We very often hear that the organization is not secret, but I can't get an answer on even what lodge this guy was in.
Originally posted by Nygdan
I would like to note that I still haven't received even a preliminary response from any of the organizations that I emailed.
We very often hear that the organization is not secret, but I can't get an answer on even what lodge this guy was in.
Originally posted by I_AM_that_I_AM
Why would they even bother to reply to you, though?
They don't know you and may not want the bad publicity of that guy reflecting on the lodge he was in.
Originally posted by Nygdan
I would like to note that I still haven't received even a preliminary response from any of the organizations that I emailed.
We very often hear that the organization is not secret, but I can't get an answer on even what lodge this guy was in.
Originally posted by Roark
Would you like to U2U me the lodge email addresses? I'm happy to ask my lodge Master to try...
Originally posted by Naphtalite
Well you have to consider that, first of all, those emails might be checked less often than every day, or even every week.
Maybe they don't know who the guy is who is supposedly still on the loose,
If no one knows which of the members it is, then by some people's logic, they are all guilty (or at least suspect) until the offender is dealt with.
trinityman
they have no obligation to respond at all and may not if they think you are a journo or someone with an agenda.
Originally posted by Nygdan
For my own part, I am just hoping that, if there isn't an internal investigation, that perhaps one can be spurred into action, even if it is private. And, also, we do tend to hear that masonry isn't really a 'secret society', in that the membership is rather open, so a real test of this is, can we find out to which lodge anyone in particular belongs to.
I can fully understand a lodge not wanting that attention though, but, such is life.
Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Originally posted by Shane
It does not matter that they where police, because police do not have an agenda, (unless in a military state of course). No, it would make little difference if they where Cops, Preists or Bakers. The problem is that they are Masons. It's the appearance that matters.
I'd respectfully suggest that you're deluding yourself in suggesting that police don't have an agenda. As I said earlier, that they're Masons isn't germaine to the story. Had they been cricketeers, footballers, bakers or priests, a blanket assumption about all cricketeers, footballers, bakers or priests would have been just as incorrect.
Originally posted by billybob
masons swear to be loyal TO THE DEATH to EACH OTHER.
the mason's whole purpose is hidden from the public.
indeed there is a high masonic headcount in ANY police force
...but are sworn to protect the law of the land(as long as it doesn't conflict with protecting the lodge, a higher order of oath...
mind you, i'm not convinced masons in general are bad. i think MOST are REALLY GOOD. i think, like the us government, there is a bad CORE in the otherwise delicious apple.
Originally posted by tempest_101
as not every Iraqi is a terrorist, or not every priest is child abuser.
Is all this proves is that even in the most elite organizations sometimes scum can slip through, but not that every mason, or for that matter every man is an abuser of any kind.
billybob
masons swear to be loyal TO THE DEATH to EACH OTHER.
but are sworn to protect the law of the land(as long as it doesn't conflict with protecting the lodge, a higher order of oath).
i think, like the us government, there is a bad CORE in the otherwise delicious apple.
[on loyalty unto death]
trinityman
This is entirely untrue
Originally posted by Nygdan
Similarly, the masonic institution does have a responsibility to tend to its members, not to protect them, or even to sit by and say 'its a police matter'.
i think, like the us government, there is a bad CORE in the otherwise delicious apple.
In that, you may be right, as UGLE doesn't seem to be interested at all in what is going on in the north wales jurisdictions. Though, at the same time, UGLE isn't the crown of all masonry.
[on loyalty unto death]
trinityman
This is entirely untrue
?
I thought that the members were expected to maintain their fraternal bonds throughout their lives?
Originally posted by Trinityman
What do you suggest that masonic institutions should do?
Masonry does not put itself above the law of the land and there doesn't seem to be any point in running a parallel judicial system.
I think you've got a bee in your bonnet over this North Wales business.
I'm keeping an eye on it, and I'm sure the local media are keeping an eye on it, but at this stage its all allegation and innuendo.
death' so by singling out LOYALTY in this way implies that it somehow supercedes the other obligations/tenets.
DEATH in capitals also has a rather creepy connotation. In case it had escaped anyone's attention...
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE...
icNorthWales - Evil sex beast may never be let out on the streets again
(Apr 7 2006) (snips)
EVIL child abuser Fred Lawlor was locked up last night for at least 15 years.
Lawlor's married neighbour, Gary Owen, 55, was the only one to pay for sex with the girl. He had a previous conviction for sex offences against a girl of 12, for which he was jailed for six years.
Former Birmingham police officer Raymond Ketland, 66, of Nant y Coed, Glan Conwy, became involved with the girl after noticing sexual activity on Llanddulas beach.He admitted two charges of sexual activity with a minor, taking indecent photographs of a child and facilitating a child sex offence, and was jailed for two and a half years. Ketland had become involved partly through a fellow Mason.
Gary McIlroy, 50, of Weatherby Way, Little Sutton, Ellesmere Port, became involved with the group while travelling North Wales as a pub and club entertainer.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Pressure their members to turn this guy over, re-emphasize that he's a heinous criminal who has no place in masonry, issue a statement from UGLE, etc.
Seems like the benefits of having some sort of internal investigation far outweight the costs.
It bothers me that I've allways heard that its relatively easy to confirm of deny if such and such an individual is a mason, that it'd be difficult for hte fraternity and institution to be involved in a conspiracy or a cover up, and that the organization instills and supports ethical behaviour, but then to have this happen. Its to be expected that there are bad people in everygroup, but I'd also expect an ethical organization like masonry to be doing something about it.
A ring of child-rapists has been broken up, and one of them, a mason, says he engaged in this activities alongside a fellow lodge member. This other guy is out there in the lodges, somewhere. Who cares, at this point, if they have all been sentenced, the allegation is horrid enough to warrant internal action, especially given that its enough to warrant police action..