North Wales paedophilia ring exposed: Masonic involvement., page 4

Originally posted by Roark
Dude, here is something I wrote earlier in the thread:
Originally posted by Roark
There is no magical transformation in a man's heart when he becomes a Freemason. The change occurs (as it does with non-Masons) with dedication, hard work and a commitment to principles.

Missed that Roark,i do like your terminology or understanding of it,though i still have a problem with the motto.

Obviously these guys didn't take the positive teachings of Masonry very seriously, did they...

Far from your understanding of a good man i`m sure.

One purpose of Freemasonry is to make good men better. That is what we hope for anyway, just like any organisation which seeks to uphold higher principles.

Ok fine,but i still have a problem with it for reasons i stated.

Is it the fault of the teachings ("brotherly love, relief and truth"), or the organisation itself that this horrible act was perpetrated by Masons? The teachings are there to be learnt, but if people choose to ignore them, and wallow in their own degradation, that's their own sick business.

I thought i made myself clear i musn`t have,no i do not and have not accused all Masons of being guilty by association.

Would hold your own church and its teachings to be responsible if two perverts were discovered in the pews? No, you wouldn't.

Of coarse not which is why this example is a bit offensive.I`ve never needed such examples to come to clarity.

So... "Good men made better". A lie? No. It's a challenge, and it is the responsibility of each man to better himself. You can't effectively teach someone who doesn't want to be taught.

I disagree Roak,it is a lie and those two men proved it to be,no man is good to begin with.if the motto was "to make common men better" it would sit better even though these men failed to be better.The wording says you were already good and you can be better than good through Freemasonry.

We don't actually plot in the background and decide how we're going to work the PR angle.

I believe you personally don`t Roark and i have read a long time ago in a thread you and i were involved in enough to know your a respectable type of bloke,and your actions from your words went a long way in me trusting you as a person.

Freemasonry in Australia (where I live) doesn't even HAVE public relations, let alone scheming to infiltrate website forums that have no significant impact on the outside world. Our charity work is all done largely without accolade or acknowledgement. Anyway, enough trumpet-blowing. My intention was not really to talk about the charity work.

I have also done a lot of charity work though i did`nt need to belong to a SS org to do it.But by the way great to hear from a fellow Aussie.

I will say, though, that it's VERY hard to resist getting sucked into rebutting outrageous lies,when the subject matter is something you actually know about.

Tell me about it

fear not Roark i can sympathize pal,as a Christian by experience and little study draws a lot of heat,and Christianity draws plenty just being Christian.

I guess that's why it sometimes appears as though there's a "co-ordinated Masonic front" here at ATS.

I got ya,though i don`t trust all Mason`s as i would you,and respectfully as i can be hold no faith in freemasonry to begin with as from what i stated earlier and for other reasons.There are conflicts that stop me.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by gps777]