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OP/ED: Cracks in the Facade

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posted on May, 21 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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Mua, you mean you really missed this? This was one of the most damaging pieces of legislation to the American worker since Reagan busted the ATC. Link here:
www.onlisareinsradar.com...
You can find it in PLENTY of other places as well. Although you may think otherwise, I was early on "fairly" neutral about Bush (Thinking he would be a moderate like his father.) I am now part of the "sour" America Herr Karl speaks of.


Really?....

External Source

Strengtherning Overtime Protection

DOL finalized reforms to overtime regulations that will provide more overtime to more work-ers, reduce litigation, and free up resources for job creation. Workers receiving overtime through a collective bargaining agreement will continue to get overtime under the new rule.

■ More Overtime for More Workers: The Department nearly tripled the salary level under which workers are guaranteed overtime, from $8,060 to $23,660, guaranteeing overtime protection to an additional 1.3 million workers. The rule also strengthens overtime protection for 5.4 million workers whose right to overtime protection was ambiguous.

■ Overtime Guaranteed: For the first time ever, the regulations explicitly guarantee overtime protection to blue collar workers, police, firefighters, EMTs, factory workers, construction workers,and licensed practical nurses, among others.

■ Reforms Long Overdue: Sections of the overtime regulations had not been updated since 1949, and these reforms had been on the DOL’s regulatory agenda since the Carter Administration.

■ Reduced Litigation: Overtime lawsuits are among the fastest growing areas of employment litigation today. The current regulations have invited wasteful class action lawsuits that cost the economy millions of dollars and require workers to wait years to be paid the overtime they deserve. The new overtime rules will reduce this needless burden on workers and the economy by clarifying the tests under which workers qualify for overtime.




posted on May, 21 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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Poor Muaddib. You can't refute the posts with facts. So you resort to complaining about how they belittle and degrade your political party. Come up with something that is positive about the Republican party--if you can. Write it here. Tell us that they are not sheep who are following a false leader.

But...no...that's like asking for an op/ed piece. Something you refuse to do.

And you won't do it, anyway.

You'd think of this request as another "evil liberal attempt at twisting words".



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Possibly stole an election, or at the very least was appointed by the supreme court (a precedent that exists neither in the constitution or in our 230 yr history.


Again, why are you saying this? because the election did not go as you planned?...

[edit on 21-5-2006 by Rwearjr]Mua, I don't mean to sound condescending, but are you implying that the 2000 election wasn't contentious or controversial?



Handed out tax cuts (most of which benefited the top 10% of American income earners) at a time when the American budget was "in the black" for the first time in nearly twenty years.


To be clear here Mua, i am referring to the FIRST round of tax cuts, are you disputing the fact that we had a balanced budget when Bush was appointed?


Removed the law guaranteeing millions of workers overtime after 40 hours.

See Above: But, I want to stress my question: Are you sure you didn't hear about this when it was happening? It created quite a stir. But you know ol' stick to his guns......he happily signed it anyway. BTW the llink i provided is not really the best article covering this subject, I usually don't put links in my posts A because I'm lazy, and B because you shouldn't be, and go google it for yourself.


quote: Originally posted by Rwearjr
Divided our nation more deeply than I have ever seen in my 36 short years


You mean more than during the Vietnam war?...

Yes, Mua I do. Although I didn't live through the Vietnam war as an adult, I don't thinks it's a big leap to imagine that the primary reason for all the protest, and political action during 'nam was the draft, the war too, but mostly the draft. If the draft were to be instituted again during this war......oh well thats all speculative.

Used the fear, and anxiety created by these attacks to institute some of the most frightening intrusions on our freedoms in our history.


You mean like the same "intrusions" which Theodore Rooselvelt and other presidents instituted in the past.....and we are still with no dictatorship...


In all honesty Mua, as a lover of history I see NO American parallel to the tactics this gang has used to usurp our freedoms. I do see a direct parallel to Germany ala 1929. i don't say this to deride you, or your position, I humbly ask you to read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" for yourself. I will leave you with just a few quotes from top Nazi officials to ponder, again you can look these up for yourself they are readily available.....truly chilling.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war.... But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along.... That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall and Luftwaffe-Chief at the Nuremberg trials, 4/18/1946 (snopes)

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”-Josef Goebbels “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”-Goebbels (ala terror,terrorists,fear,fear)

Darn out of letters :-(



[edit on 21-5-2006 by Rwearjr]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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Let's continue the history lesson shall we!


“The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear.”-Himmler

“There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man.”-Hitler (I'm the decider)

“There is a road to freedom. Its milestones are Obedience, Endeavor, Honesty, Order, Cleanliness, Sobriety, Truthfulness, Sacrifice, and love of the Fatherland.”-Hitler

“The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.”-Hitler

“Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice”-Hitler (Hurricane Katrina)

“As soon as by one's own propaganda even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid”-Hitler (Never admitting wrong)

“The broad mass of a nation . . . will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.”-Hitler

“The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures...The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one,”-Hitler (justifying removal of liberties)

There's plenty more, but I'm tired of copying them...........just some things to ponder.



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Poor Muaddib. You can't refute the posts with facts. So you resort to complaining about how they belittle and degrade your political party. Come up with something that is positive about the Republican party--if you can. Write it here. Tell us that they are not sheep who are following a false leader.

But...no...that's like asking for an op/ed piece. Something you refuse to do.

And you won't do it, anyway.

You'd think of this request as another "evil liberal attempt at twisting words".


You know Ceci, I'm beginning to wonder if ANYTHING will make some of those with their "mind made up" take a closer look at their allegiances?


[edit on 21-5-2006 by Rwearjr]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Rwearjr

[edit on 21-5-2006 by Rwearjr]Mua, I don't mean to sound condescending, but are you implying that the 2000 election wasn't contentious or controversial?


Controversial doens't equal to stolen election...

BTW, it is kind of hard to see the difference between what you are writting and what I wrote. Please try to copy and paste the "

Originally posted by Rwearjr "excerpted comment"
That the person you are quoting said, it is easier for everyone to know who said what, and it is easier to see what you are trying to say.



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Poor Muaddib. You can't refute the posts with facts.
.................



You are the last person who should be saying anything "about posting facts" when you only resort to post excerpts and rhetorical nonsense trying to call all Republicans "religious fanatic" "who have some kind of mental problem" and all the other BS you like to excerpt...


[edit on 21-5-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:05 PM
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Probably I am. But you still haven't refuted it with anything positive, have you?



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally quoted by Rwearjr

You know Ceci, I'm beginning to wonder if ANYTHING will make some of those with their "mind made up" take a closer look at their allegiances?


Rwearjr,

Be content in knowing that this "affliction" is only present in 29 per-cent of the American population. More people see what's going down in America than you think. We are dealing with some of the last guard who still see virtue in what is otherwise a flawed and deeply destructive administration.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Rwearjr
“There is a road to freedom. Its milestones are Obedience, Endeavor, Honesty, Order, Cleanliness, Sobriety, Truthfulness, Sacrifice, and love of the Fatherland.”-Hitler
...................


Oh I see....so i guess because some dictators made some quotes, which some of them happen to be similar to what for example the forefathers of the United States believed, it must mean we are in a dictatorship?

humm.... Let me post some patriotic quotes.....


A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle. ~George William Curtis
..........
I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him. ~Abraham Lincoln
..........
There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream. ~Archibald MacLeish
..........
America is much more than a geographical fact. It is a political and moral fact - the first community in which men set out in principle to institutionalize freedom, responsible government, and human equality. ~Adlai Stevenson
..........
America is a passionate idea or it is nothing. America is a human brotherhood or it is chaos. ~Max Lerner, Actions and Passions, 1949
..........
If you take advantage of everything America has to offer, there’s nothing you can’t accomplish. ~Geraldine Ferraro
..........
It is the flag just as much of the man who was naturalized yesterday as of the men whose people have been here many generations. ~Henry Cabot Lodge
..........
The winds that blow through the wide sky in these mounts, the winds that sweep from Canada to Mexico, from the Pacific to the Atlantic - have always blown on free men. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
..........
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
............
I wish that every human life might be pure transparent freedom. ~Simone de Beauvoir
...........
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong. ~James Bryce
...........
Men love their country, not because it is great, but because it is their own. ~Seneca
...........


The following one is hilarious, but true.


A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works. ~Bill Vaughan




I think there is one higher office than president and I would call that patriot. ~Gary Hart
...........
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain
...........
Patriotism is easy to understand in America - it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country. ~Calvin Coolidge
...........
Intellectually I know that America is no better than any other country; emotionally I know she is better than every other country. ~Sinclair Lewis


So I guess according to you all those people must be evil dictators too?...



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006

Originally quoted by Rwearjr

You know Ceci, I'm beginning to wonder if ANYTHING will make some of those with their "mind made up" take a closer look at their allegiances?


Rwearjr,

Be content in knowing that this "affliction" is only present in 29 per-cent of the American population. More people see what's going down in America than you think. We are dealing with some of the last guard who still see virtue in what is otherwise a flawed and deeply destructive administration.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by ceci2006]


I believe you Ceci, in the beginning the "tactics" worked (fear, blame the media,agree or your not patriotic, hush the dissenters,blame the media again) but, it appears that MAYBE the American people have begun to see through this naked emperor, and the whole act has really grown tired.



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006

Be content in knowing that this "affliction" is only present in 29 per-cent of the American population. More people see what's going down in America than you think. We are dealing with some of the last guard who still see virtue in what is otherwise a flawed and deeply destructive administration.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by ceci2006]


Oooh that's right...according to the left, polls made to 1,000-3,000 people represents 71% of Americans....




posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Rwearjr
“There is a road to freedom. Its milestones are Obedience, Endeavor, Honesty, Order, Cleanliness, Sobriety, Truthfulness, Sacrifice, and love of the Fatherland.”-Hitler
...................


Oh I see....so i guess because some dictators made some quotes, which some of them happen to be similar to what for example the forefathers of the United States believed, it must mean we are in a dictatorship?

humm.... Let me post some patriotic quotes.....


A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle. ~George William Curtis
..........
I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him. ~Abraham Lincoln
..........
There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream. ~Archibald MacLeish
..........
America is much more than a geographical fact. It is a political and moral fact - the first community in which men set out in principle to institutionalize freedom, responsible government, and human equality. ~Adlai Stevenson
..........
America is a passionate idea or it is nothing. America is a human brotherhood or it is chaos. ~Max Lerner, Actions and Passions, 1949
..........
If you take advantage of everything America has to offer, there’s nothing you can’t accomplish. ~Geraldine Ferraro
..........
It is the flag just as much of the man who was naturalized yesterday as of the men whose people have been here many generations. ~Henry Cabot Lodge
..........
The winds that blow through the wide sky in these mounts, the winds that sweep from Canada to Mexico, from the Pacific to the Atlantic - have always blown on free men. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
..........
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
............
I wish that every human life might be pure transparent freedom. ~Simone de Beauvoir
...........
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong. ~James Bryce
...........
Men love their country, not because it is great, but because it is their own. ~Seneca
...........


The following one is hilarious, but true.


A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works. ~Bill Vaughan




I think there is one higher office than president and I would call that patriot. ~Gary Hart
...........
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain
...........
Patriotism is easy to understand in America - it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country. ~Calvin Coolidge
...........
Intellectually I know that America is no better than any other country; emotionally I know she is better than every other country. ~Sinclair Lewis


So I guess according to you all those people must be evil dictators too?...


What? Do you see any relation between the spirit, and content of these quotes, and the quotes I gave you? Are you trying to tell me that the quotes I gave you are similar in ANY way to the spirit of the founding fathers?
Remember Mua, marching in lockstep is NOT patriotism. I can't remember right off hand but I think Thomas Paine said: "Dissent is the HIGHEST form of patriotism."



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Rwearjr

What? Do you see any relation between the spirit, and content of these quotes, and the quotes I gave you? Are you trying to tell me that the quotes I gave you are similar in ANY way to the spirit of the founding fathers?
Remember Mua, marching in lockstep is NOT patriotism. I can't remember right off hand but I think Thomas Paine said: "Dissent is the HIGHEST form of patriotism."


Just because you quote some dictators who used patriotism, and moral values for their ends, doesn't mean that all who make such quotes are dictators...

There was also another one of our forefathers who said something like "those who cause unwarranted dissent, and want to spread violence in our counrty, are not patriots at all"... I can't remember eactly who said it but I have excerpted this quote in these forums before.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by ceci2006

Be content in knowing that this "affliction" is only present in 29 per-cent of the American population. More people see what's going down in America than you think. We are dealing with some of the last guard who still see virtue in what is otherwise a flawed and deeply destructive administration.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by ceci2006]


Oooh that's right...according to the left, polls made to 1,000-3,000 people represents 71% of Americans....



I could see the logic of your argument Mua if we were talking about one, maybe two polls..............but how many are we at now? Why do you try so hard to create your own version of reality? Is it blind loyalty?



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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Mua, not only has Bush divided our country, he has succeeded at dividing his own party. Here's an article from the Washington Post, if you try to tell me that the W.P. is "liberal media" then I simply can't discuss this any further with you. W.P. is well known to be one of the most CONSERVATIVE papers in America.
www.washingtonpost.com...



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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It certainly is blind loyalty. The poll came out of the Wall Street Journal. Not a liberal rag by any means. But Muaddib probably doesn't even trust even that periodical either.

[edit on 21-5-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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Mua, I doubt you will actually read the article judging from the content of some of your posts....If this judgement is incorrect my apologies. The article is written by a Republican (like most of W.P.) and here is just a sample:

"For all of conservatives' patience, we've been rewarded with the botched Hurricane Katrina response, headed by an unqualified director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which proved that the government isn't ready for the next disaster. We've been rewarded with an amnesty plan for illegal immigrants. We've been rewarded with a war in Iraq that drags on because of the failure to provide adequate resources at the beginning, and with exactly the sort of "nation-building" that Candidate Bush said he opposed."

I just don't know what else to say Mua.....



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:53 PM
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One more quote from the same article:

"As long as Democrats controlled Congress or the White House, Republicans could tell conservatives they deserved support because of what they would do, someday. Now we know what they do when they have control. Their agenda comes from Big Business, not from grass-roots conservatives."

WOW, I usually vote independent, and avoid extremism in either end of the spectrum, but I haven't seen a better summary of this congress in any publication yet.

Is this guy running for office?

[edit on 21-5-2006 by Rwearjr]



posted on May, 21 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Just a handful of polls Mua?

"I've never seen conservatives so downright fed up as they are today. The current relationship between Washington Republicans and the nation's conservatives makes me think of a cheating husband whose wife catches him, and forgives him, time and time again. Then one day he comes home to discover that she has packed her bags and called a cab -- and a divorce lawyer."

As the philanderer learns: Hell hath no fury. . . .

If the conservatives are this pissed, can you imagine liberals? "Sour" indeed.



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