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Reefer Madness 2006?

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posted on May, 30 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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original quote by:Nygdan
Pot is clearly a gateway drug, and most people that are doing meth, coke, and heroin started off smoking pot.



Wtih almost everything else you said, I wont argue. But the above answer is nothing more than propoganda. Fact is if someone wants to get messed up on drugs they are going to do it. Sure for some it is a "launching pad" for harder drugs. But that is the fault of the person not pot. People will do what they want regardless. I have freinds that have smoked pot for 25 years and never touched anything else.

And, when you learn the REAL TRUTH about pot and know about the govts involvement in it, you soon realize that almost everything that they have said over the last 70 has been nothing but propoganda and lies.

furthuremore, what right does a gov have to legislate what I CHOOSE to put into my body...NOONE EVER ANSWERS THIS QUESTION!

Let me tell you what right they have... NONE what-so-ever. I cannot even begin to fathom the level of hypocrisy inherent in the criminalization of a plant..a WEED! unlike cocain and heroin, POT does NOT have to go thrue any chemical alteration. Heck it doesnt even have to be smoked.. you can pick it and eat it if you wish.

Not to mention the fact that if you look at the other thread that I posted in I have the FACTS as to how many people died from pot... 0 absolutely none throughout all of history. Hell more people die in one day from drinking and driving then have died from pot in ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY!
Right to grow cannabis?
As far as making people paranoid goes...The only thing people that smoke pot are paranoid about is being ARRESTED! If pot were legal(as it should be) then there wouldnt be any frickin paranoia.

I cannot believe that in this the supposed "Land of the Free" that we are constantly being told what we can and cannot do with our own body. What most people will never understand(that dont smoke pot) is that there are many other reasons besides the just getting "high". For Rastas it is part of the sacriment. For many in america it is
also a political statement.


For those bible beaters out there that are against pot I say take a good look at the very first page of your precious book... God made all the plants and herbs bearing SEED and made them bountiful among the earth.

Lastly since it is controlled by the govt and they make SOOOOOO much money this way(illegalization) they have every reason to lie to you.. as I am just trying to help bring enlightenment and MUCH need freedom to what is probably one of the longest running scams this govt has ever pulled!

Marinate on it.. and also check out the other thread I have more facts then you can shake a stick at... thank you for your time.

Time to wake up and smell the Buds





posted on May, 30 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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"Pot is clearly a gateway drug, and most people that are doing meth, coke, and heroin started off smoking pot."

Pot is a gateway drug,... my face! Most people that are doing meth, coke, and heroin also started off by drinking Coke as a kid and everyone knows that caffeine is a drug.

Don't give us that lame crap. Pot is less of a gateway drug than caffeine is. Most people who drink alcohol started by drinking caffeinated beverages we can all make the same connection there too.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 12:25 PM
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Also, is alcohol(a legal substance) not psychotropic? That would also disprove your argument. Dan I usually see eye to eye with you on issues, on this one I think you might need to come over to the dark side with Tone and I.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Low Orbit
Also, is alcohol(a legal substance) not psychotropic? That would also disprove your argument. Dan I usually see eye to eye with you on issues, on this one I think you might need to come over to the dark side with Tone and I.


Use the force luke...lmao... the darkside.. that made my day orbit.


Also please understand, Nygdan, that I am only for the legalization with strict guidelines.

But this war against our own citizenry for LIES has got to stop!

Just think how many less drug dealers there would be...how much less crime(much to the chagrin of the private prison owners).. take a good long look at who wins and who really loses here. After all the research I have illustrated on this thread and also in another threadright to grow cannabis there is nothing left for the opposition to stand on.

great debate BTW thanks for starting the thread orbit



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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Like anything else, Marijuana too can be regulated if legalized. Amsterdam has it regulated. The state of California grows its own stuff without chemicals, aka the organic variety.

Personally, I see that only through regulation can consumers truly know what they are smoking. Of course there should be strict rules on who and who can not smoke starting with an age limitation probably either 18 or 21 depending on the state. Any drug should be kept out of childrens hands and this one their lungs respectively.

By regulating marijuana you can also tax it. And cops will still be able to "bust" people who chose to drive while intoxicated on it, as they should. If legalized there will still be 101 ways for our government to make money off of it. If we chose to tax Marijuana like we tax cigarettes this drug could single handedly finance school districts from California to Florida.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Low Orbit
Like anything else, Marijuana too can be regulated if legalized. Amsterdam has it regulated. The state of California grows its own stuff without chemicals, aka the organic variety.

Personally, I see that only through regulation can consumers truly know what they are smoking. Of course there should be strict rules on who and who can not smoke starting with an age limitation probably either 18 or 21 depending on the state. Any drug should be kept out of childrens hands and this one their lungs respectively.

By regulating marijuana you can also tax it. And cops will still be able to "bust" people who chose to drive while intoxicated on it, as they should. If legalized there will still be 101 ways for our government to make money off of it. If we chose to tax Marijuana like we tax cigarettes this drug could single handedly finance school districts from California to Florida.


I concur completely sir.. except for one thing. If we make it legal then hows our itty bitty govt gonna pay for its black ops with all that underground money going back on the books.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Good question, well they could switch the black projects so that they look to be under the control of NASA however the government can still control "Security Clearence" on the issue.
Other agencies that they could transfer the money to unkowingly are back to the FBI, CIA, and countless others that I can't recall at the moment.

Agencies such as these can always use the Jack Bauer facade, sorry we would like to inform you, but unfortunately, this is a matter of National Security.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Low Orbit
Good question, well they could switch the black projects so that they look to be under the control of NASA however the government can still control "Security Clearence" on the issue.
Other agencies that they could transfer the money to unkowingly are back to the FBI, CIA, and countless others that I can't recall at the moment.

Agencies such as these can always use the Jack Bauer facade, sorry we would like to inform you, but unfortunately, this is a matter of National Security.


ok... sorry I was referring to the fact that they still had to PAY for those black ops(paid with money that CANNOT go on the books) Im not talking about top secret ops... as those are still 'on the books' I mean the black ops that CANNOT be paid for on the books(aka CIA drug money)

sorry if I confilzzled you on that one... my fault entirely



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Ain't no thing Tone, to that question the answer becomes a bit more difficult. I truly don't know what the answer will be other than the fact that the CIA will have to concentrate on other drugs more and other forms of organized crime such as horse racing, gambling, prostitution, etc. Extortion is even more effective for agents with badges than Mobsters with Revolvers. How do you think the CIA would account for the difference in income?



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by TONE23
But the above answer is nothing more than propoganda.

No its not, its a simple statement. People that start using pot are introduced into a 'world of drugs'. Its not perhaps as extreme as all that, but its true. Once you start hanging out with pot smokers, before long, you're going to be hanging out with peopel doing so called 'harder' drugs.


Fact is if someone wants to get messed up on drugs they are going to do it. Sure for some it is a "launching pad" for harder drugs.

People don't sit around, decide that they want to be snorting K in 10 years, and start smoking pot.



furthuremore, what right does a gov have to legislate what I CHOOSE to put into my body...NOONE EVER ANSWERS THIS QUESTION!

So you don't think that there should be an FDA? Or that crack should be illegal? If they can make psychotropic substances illegal, then they can make pot illegal. I agree, there's a lot of hysteria over pot, but in the end, its still a drug that interferes with the operation of the mind. We could argue that alcohol does the same thing, and it'd be true, and they outlawed alchohol not so long ago too! Those laws weren't repealed because of consitutional or legalistic issues, alcohol was just socially acceptable enough, and there were enough users of it, that they forced it to be re-allowed. Pot simply isn't widely culturally acceptable. That cultural beleif is reflected in the laws.




If pot were legal(as it should be) then there wouldnt be any frickin paranoia.

Thats ridiculous. Paranoia is one of the psyhological effects of the drug. People that are whacked out after a long session are paranoid about glances from the person to their left, or anything! The drug induces extreme psychological states, as opposed to alcohol or cigarettes, which aren't much more than depressants and stimulants. Thats part of the basis for it being illegal.


I cannot believe that in this the supposed "Land of the Free" that we are constantly being told what we can and cannot do with our own body.

You can't smoke crack, and very few people are arguing that that or crystal meth should be legal. You also can't dump your waste into the streets, its a health issue. Making these things legal creates a real social issue, we, as a society, enact laws according to our will. And our will, as the general public, is that pot is ultimately a social ill, hence, its illegal.


For Rastas it is part of the sacriment.

And there are strong protections for the religious use of a variety of chemicals. Thats simply not whats at issue. We, for example, even regulate what is considered 'kosher' and 'halal' food products; not anyone can jsut say that their stuff is kosher, even though there is no universal definition of it. Society sees a use in having such regulations.


For many in america it is also a political statement.

Thats just silly.


God made all the plants and herbs bearing SEED and made them bountiful among the earth.

And mushrooms too, but the average christer ain't never gonna accept legalization of magic mushrooms or replace their eucharist with some caps.


they have every reason to lie to you.

Where is the lie in saying its a mind altering drug? Mind altering drugs have been made illegal, with the exception of things like alcohol and cigarettes, which are i]really different than pot.


. as I am just trying to help bring enlightenment and MUCH need freedom to what is probably one of the longest running scams this govt has ever pulled!

And also the most irrelevant.


that I am only for the legalization with strict guidelines.

Personally, I think its doable. Hell, there's probably more money in it for the government to make it legal, but you have to buy a license to use each year, and a ore expensive license to grow for home use, and a different one to grow for commericial use, etc. They could put a special tax on commerical sale of pot just like with cigagrettes and alcohol, and also put another special tax on large plots of land used for growing it, etc etc. And there are other benefits to legalization too, with decriminalization, you're pulling it out of the underworld and the black market. Much of the 'gateway' effect, which is real, is because of that underground association. If you could go to the store and buy it in the open light, you wouldn't need to associate with some of the dirtbags that are selling the stuff. You wouldn't, perhaps, class the psychological effects of it as being substantively similar to other drugs, and further reduce the gateway effect. Its doable, I think.

But its never going to work because only pot smokers really want it legalized, and they're simply not the most capable class (as a class, surely there are competent individuals) out there.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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Tone23
sorry I was referring to the fact that they still had to PAY for those black ops

Why do you think such an important chunk of the black budget comes from pot sales? I suspect that that 'industry' is not very centralized or organized, lots of poeple have largish plots tucked away that feed the consumer market. Its not quite like with heroin, where afghan warlords ship the stuff internationally and there's a whole smuggling operation, or like with coke comming from south america. Thats an industry that can be tapped into and manipulated for black ops. But pot, it can be grown anywhere, by anyone. I suspect that most of the production is domestic (but I'll agree that there is signifcant cross border commerce in this respect). Its not an industry that is really all that ammendable to financing black budgets, and the profit margin on it can't be anywhere near what they get from heroin and coke smuggling.
Same with some of the new designer drugs. We're constantly seeing ecstasy shipping in in bags from places like Israel, but its just over a short plan ride with a 'mule' carrying it. The stuff is easily produced in small 'factories', probably not too much more involved than in making moonshine or home brewing beer.

Or even with crystal meth. Its a methamphetimine, I beleive, and that means its similar to coc aine. But look at the production. Cocain is labour intensive, it requires the processing of large volumes of the plant, with unskilled labour. That means that the facilities to produce it are large and relatively immobile (relatively), its high profit, and thus high risk, and requires a large organization to provide security, not to mention transport, smuggling, etc etc. THey don't have a guy get on a plane with a ziplock bag full of it, they transport it one semi's, ships, etc. But Crystl Meth? Its low intensity, the labs can be fit into a single room. A small operation of just a few people can quitely and stealthily make large batches of it for immediate distribution, it requires less capital to start it up, and it can be easily moved to follow the market, ie less investment, less infrastructure.

Thats why these governments use heroin and coc aine production to provide money, because an industry on that scale is easy to manipulate. Pot, crystal meth, possibly even ecstasy, they're probably just not ammendable to that sort of manipulation.


Low Orbit
Most people that are doing meth, coke, and heroin also started off by drinking Coke as a kid

And they sure as heck didn't sit around passing a can of coke in their basement, or go to buy some cola one day and have their pepsi-dealer make e-bombs available to them!



Low Orbit
is alcohol(a legal substance) not psychotropic?

I think that a pretty decent case can be made for the effects of alcohol and cigarettes being starkly different from the effects of lsd, pot, coke, etc. But I agree, pot probably shouldn't be classed as a Schedule I Drug, alongside Crack, Meth, Heroine.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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absolutely agree Nygdan... The revenue from coke and heroin finance make up the bulk of thier income for those "black" ops. I was only pointing out the pot part of it since it is the relevent susbstance for this particular thread. Pot income is more like the icing on the cake so to speak(if that makes any sense). You are dead right that ANYONE can grow it ANYWHERE, which is why they dont have an "industry operation" like they do with the other "big 2" susbstances.

I apologize for any confusion



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 03:15 AM
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I honestly don't see what the problem is. As long as there is a Domino's that will deliver for on-call stoners. haha


* Blowing Smoke
Ryan Grim, Slate, 22nd Mar 2006

Drug testing of the American public has been steadily broadening over the past 20 years, from soldiers to grocery baggers to high-school and middle-school students. In its 2007 budget, the Bush administration asks for $15 million to fund random drug testing of students - if approved, a 50 percent increase over 2006. Officials from the federal drug czar’s office are crisscrossing the country to sell the testing to school districts.

Source: The Hempire/Washington City Paper

Look at that. 15 million dollars that could easily be spent on something else. The Cannibible has a bunch of random fun-facts that tickle my fancy.

In order to be lethal, a person would have to consume 15 pounds of raw marijuana. 10 pounds of potatoes can kill a person, as well.

There have been no recorded deaths from marijuana.

Cross-country runners believe it increases their stamina.

And besides, do you think Dali created all that stuff on his own? Hah.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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I have also heard that many famous astronomers used it in the past to help them conceptualize the universe.

Personally, I believe drug tests specifically for the over 18 croud is unconstitutional and goes against the 4th Amendment


"Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

usinfo.state.gov...

But then again I'm not a money hungry lawyer so what do I know. This country has always been about whoever has the most money has the most rights.

I hope in the near future companies will be allowed to do brain scans and look at your medical information before hiring someone, jk, however it will happen within my lifetime. Employers can do whatever they want to potential employees, emplyees have no rights on issues like this.

I believe that the indentured servant has never left American history and that now we call these indentured servants, minimum-wage employees.

Drug-testing is just another barrier to entry and is just another way to make sure that the people on top will stay on top.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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just to make a short point about what you said before Nygdan

you said earlier that, my statement of: the gateway claim being propoganda, was not true. And your right. What it is is a real fact. I see that now. BUT, it is a gateway that the govt MADE by outlawing it in the first place. if you look at it from a cause/effect point of view. Maybe you could say that the cause would be the usage effects, of the plant; and the effect being the govt outlawing it; being the cause of the gateway...lol. (if that made sense) But really if it was never outlawed there wouldve been no black market and hence; the psychology behind, it over the last 50-70 years, would also have been completely different. So the whole gateway thing is little more than, the chicken and the egg.

I look forward to any response/questions/comments you may have

Thank you for your time



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