The conspiracy against Satan

Was Satan really that bad?

I mean, yeah, he's pretty scary-looking in most depictions. Fiery red, pointy tail, horns, pitchfork. Not exactly the warm and fuzzy type...well, warm, maybe.

But, seriously. Back in my Christian days, I learned how Satan was, well, THAT guy. The ultimate evil. He's supposed to be the worst of the worst, the head torture master in Hell. It seemed like anything bad that happened to you was his work. He was the only guy mad on Sunday mornings during church service.

But, has he really done horrible stuff to people? From what I remember, he transformed into a snake and tricked Eve into eating a smart apple. Thus, Adam ate it and doomed ALL his descendants. So, Satan is blamed for the fall of man.

But, was it really his fault that the people ate the smart fruit? Surely, Eve could have said no. But, even if it is his part, isn't Satan just playing some cosmic role? If he hadn't have done this, Jesus-god wouldn't have needed to come down from heaven and get crucified.

Pretty deep stuff there...let's look at stuff obviously detrimental to humans, like being killed. How many people has Satan actually killed in the bible? I may have missed something, but 0 seems the right number to me. Those gays in those cities...well, that was bible god. Practically the whole planet, drowned...bible god. Those kids who clowned the bald guy...bible god. All those Egyptians, from armed forces to kids...bible god.

Bible god has killed 1000s of people, while Satan has killed none...but Satan's the bad guy? Maybe Satan is bad, but it's a lesser of 2 evils thing?

And, BTW, I'm not a devil worshipper or a Satanist. Hell, I don't even think Satan is actually real. I just always wondered how the uber evil guy didn't do all the killing in the bible.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot...

Here's a nice theme song for Satan, courtesy of Orbital.

www.loopz.co.uk...

If you go to this page and click on the MP3 or RA stream for "Satan," you can listen to a sample from the song. If you want more of a metal feel, click on "Satan Spawn."


Ok...so you gotta go to Audio(disc), then go to Q-Z on the left of the page. Then, you can find the songs.

[edit on 6-5-2006 by truthseeka]

oh that brings some memories back. for some reason my mates and I were at a birthday party at a rectory for the vicars son and i remember someone playing that!. the vicar didn't look happy

Satan's not 'evil.' Mankind is 'evil.'

Satan (who, by the way, is not even a name for any actual individual entity, as I'm sure you well know, truthseeka) is represented by the serpent in the tree--

In Hebrew, the letter tet is the 9th letter (9 is the vibrational energy for 'judgment,' which is basically the point at which we choose to follow 'good' (by loving and not judging) or 'evil' (by promoting our own personal egoistic agenda at the expense of whatever interferes). Tet symbolically represents 'that which appears evil but is actually hidden good' and is also signifies the snake. This is age-old Hebrew lore which can be traced back as far as we can trace its linguistic path in the world, all the way back to its Canaanite/Phoenician roots. Those ancient symbols hold a wealth of understanding for those who search in that direction...

'Satan' is on God's payroll--something necessary as counterpoint and juxtaposition providing the opportunity to choose and mold one's heart according to, or against, the law (which is love).

God makes peace and creates evil, both.

Externalizing and blaming Satan for one's lack of accountability for their actions toward themselves and others is one of the true 'sins' of the christian religion these days--which is the true 'anti-christ' the bible warns against.

BTW, truthseeka--dying isn't all that bad, either. It's the only way we get to the point of really living, anyway.

There's only one way to get to 'heaven.'

One must die first!

When you die here, you finally get to leave 'hell.'

It's really a good thing, not a bad one. The fear is the bad part.

Love is but a song we sing
fears' the way we die
You can make the mountains ring
or make the angels cry
Though the bird is on the wing
and you may not know why

Come on people now, smile on your brother
everybody get together, and try to love one another right now

Some may come and some may go
He will surely pass
When the one that left us here
returns for us at last
We are but a moment's sunlight
fading in the grass

Come on people now. smile on your brother
everybody get together, try to love one another right now

(taken from the lyrics of 'Get Together,' (c) The Youngbloods)

Perhaps those of you who are learned in the ways of the Christian doctrine could explain the following:

1/ At what point Lucifer was cast out of heaven?
2/ Why he was cast out? (was the event with the Eve, Garden of Eden and Snake the first act by Lucifer or where there others prior to this?)
3/ If Lucifer was created by God, why would Lucifer be able to perform any deed without prior knowledge of God being that God is omnipotent and onipresent unless God wished this to occur to justify his position?
4/What good had lucifer done prior to his banishment?

Could Lucifer just be an alter ego of God and therefoe be one and the same.
Or to put it another way, is it possible for a being of extreme greatness to be able to exist without also being able to express it's extreme opposite?
Is not the "wrath of God" contrary to Gods existence?



[edit on 6/5/06 by Creeping Jesus]

the only law should be you cannot do to others what they do not want done to them.
it is the highest religious law(if you know true god) and supercedes Christianity and Islam.

it seems religion is currently in a contradictory state. i believe humans are getting smarter not thru evolution, but by events that that we set in the past and also the events that are currently playing out.

by truthful fact(truthful fact, especially if you believe in your chosen religion), we live in a reality where there is a god who created us and sets us rules. one of those rules is that he is the master, and there is none higher than him and we must worship him.
to me that sounds very self-centered. i would not worship an entity who i've never met or have even had proof of existance, nontheless be expected to love him more than my family and friends. if i ever met a man who told me to get on my knees and pray for my life and my "wrongs"... i would stay standing. especially when my wrongs have hurt no one except myself. none of my wrongs are worth the penalty of death. would not the killing of me be a greater sin? or maybe i should just wake up and stop lying, having sex, and doing drugs. for those are greater than death if you can be killed for them.

i haven't read the Quran, but in Christian Bible--- God is guilty of murder and torture(the great flood and sending famine). Guilty of being a bad person as well... an entity with all the powers and knowledge sits by and does nothing when someone does wrong. when someone kills someone, he lets it happen. apparantly he made our bodies with multiple on/off buttons that can be used for our execution by others. he is guilty of placing me in this flesh basket i live in only to realize that i can be painfully tortured and experience death at the hands of others. Why? if he created everything, he created(pardon my language) a penis and a vagina. if he didn't want you to have sex, why would he let you be born with the correct tool to do as such? this is supposed to be GOD were talking about. it's like we are LAB RATS IN A CAGE! --> i'll sentence you to death(our current mortal life.... counting down to that bad moment) and there is nothing you can do about it. And if you end someone elses life before the time i sentenced them to- then you will burn forever in hell. I created you genitals and the great feeling that accompanies them, but if you use them- i will smite you.

STAND UP AGAINST RELIGION, AND REALIZE IT IS THE FALSEHOOD OF "RITEOUSS" CLEAN MAN! The Bible is not clever. I've always thought it was a ton of BS since i was a child. it's nothing but a man's drunken/sober writing- trying to lay down a law by messing with your head, raping/taking advantage of our common belief in something more- the one thing we all eventually realize. just this one thing we all have in our minds has been quite useful for a certain some peoples.....

....and i'm quite suprised these archaic writings have lasted unto this very day.
or maybe i'm not suprised.....

[edit on 6-5-2006 by chibidai_rrr]

This post brings up a question I would like to tie in with:
What evidence (Scriptural) is there that Satan has really done anything "evil". I'm no theologian, but I can find plenty of Biblical passages where God kills people-sometimes whole nations. In fact, didn't he almost kill everthing on the planet (see Noah's story)? He rants and raves and afflicts people with diseases. He even kills children (see the Plagues of Egypt). Seems to me like God is the Evil one, at least based upon His actions.
Further, I can't find one instance in the Bible where Satan kills anyone. Doesn't smite any cities and he doesn't put a pox on anyone. How in the hell (pun intended), did he end up being the bad guy in this book?

I guess u have a point. when u put it that way it doesn't seem like any of it was really his fault but people are always so quick to find a scapegoat.

so KKlover, are you saying that the reason that God cast Lucifer from heaven was to use him as an excuse for all of Gods wrong doings therefore making God Infallible and all err's to be excused as a cause of Lucifer's actions?

Interesting.

That would show that maybe Lucifer chose to be banished for Gods benefit so that he may appear to be infallible. Could this be lucifers altimate sacrifice for God who's ego blinded him from the fact that he was unable to do wrong? And to protect God he allowed himself to be banished?

Perhaps the ultimate media spin!

I guess if you had to pick a conspirator for this it would be (drum roll....) GOD!!
Yes, The Great One Himself.
Evidence: Genesis, 3:22- Now that the Man has become as One of Us (emphasis added)...what if he lives forever?. Gen. 3:23-So the Lord God banished him from Eden.
God doesn't wan't us to usurp Him. Satan gave a way of doing precisely that. Therefore, he's an eternal no-goodnik and banished for eternity. Prometheus got similar treatment. The moral? Stay in your place human!!!!

Wow, I forgot about this thread...

Queen Annie, I agree with you somewhat on this. I think that Satan and God are more representative of the good and evil side of human nature. That makes perfectly good sense to me, seeing as how people can be quite good to others at times and despicable the next.

Chibidai...I'm with you all the way.

As for the scapegoat thing, that truly is interesting. Maybe bible god has these same attributes as people. When he gets pissed for some reason, he kills people, but he blames satan so the people will still love him. Very interesting...

ive always thought in the old testament god kinda exterminates the people who were corrupt with perversions and greed and demonic spirits. they were following satan and had put aside the laws of the creator even tho they knew the laws well....like some sort of cancer that had been infected by lucifer himself. those people had chose a side and most of the time were trying to kill gods people, and when they wasnt, their actions were so demonic that it had to be done.

Are you serious? The Sodomites were evil? Those little kids that made fun of that bald guy were evil? The ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION was evil except for one family? Rofl!

Anyway, even if these people were evil, this is a moot point because bible god is omniscient. If you know EVERYTHING, you'd know that you would kill the people who were evil who you created before you created them. Only a sadist would create these people, knowing what they would do beforehand, and kill them, IMO.

As a muslim i dont believe Satan is evil. He is the punisher and he makes it easy for other people to see if someones evil or bad.