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The Shape Of Things To Come

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posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:05 PM

Originally posted by bartholomeo
Britains Goldsmiths
Sorry this is the link and of course it's written in fiction so as not to spark political prosecution but it's pretty much the sad story in which we live in today, and as far as my knowledge is concerned all fingers are pointing to England as it all started there. [edit on 1-12-2006 by bartholomeo]

That link does work, and I do see what you're getting at now. The money conspiracy is about as real as any covert agenda can be. Politicians and rich people have always found a way to manipulate economics in their favor. The conspiracy theory you see laid out in this thread is predicated on similar notions. I do think that our leaders are engaged in sometimes deliberate mismanagement of our economy to further their own agendas by inspiring one crisis after another in which they can profit while appearing to save us.

As a qualifed historian, I can atest to the fact that usery took place even in the days of barter. In the modern world, money as a medium of exchange does have the potential to level the playing a limited degree. It's much easier to learn basic money management skills than it is to learn the ins and outs of barter.

If today's power elite didn't have money, they'd invent it. Remember that CREDIT was around long before physical money became common. Agreed upon credit may have been among the world's very first verbal contracts. Even in the modern world, we still need banking reforms. Socialism appears "attractive" to many because it gives the appearance of putting an end to this problem.

Here in the United States, members of Congress peddled their influence throughout the 19th century without large sums of money. They could be bought for the price of a land deed. Perhaps an agreed upon number of horses. Even today, it's possible to buy a Senator's vote by giving him/her an expensive thing such a Rolex watch, a luxury car, or even a moderately sized sailboat.

I myself have engaged in barter, and boy did I ever get the better end of the deal. In an office setting, I traded a stapler for a telephone. Then, I traded the phone for a microfilm reader. That reader was traded for a fax machine, which allowed me to swap the fax machine for the typewriter I for the computer I wanted. In the end, everybody got what they asked for, but I ended up with more than I started with.

It's true that many of the old money families that "built" Western civilization are still involved in that process. They're getting richer all the time. None of this is an excuse for the lack of reforms that we need to see in many countries. If anything, these observations underscore the need for those reforms. There will always be somebody on the lookout for loopholes in whatever system of government and economics they live under.

I would be a bad Conspiracy Master if I didn't look for some of those loopholes to satisfy my own...needs.

posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 11:21 PM
The real control of money was started in Britain in the 1600's
by the goldsmiths, people that possesed gold started giving it to them for safekeeping overtime the goldsmiths told them that instead of carrying their gold around to buy things they could write a paper check for them worth whatever amount of gold they wanted to take out of their safe, most people didn't want to take all their gold out so they would say, write me a check worth a quarter of all the gold I gave you for safekeeping, and that check ofcourse could be exchanged for something else. The merchant that got the check could go back to the goldsmith and exchange the check for the gold, and the goldsmith would say that he could give him another check worth the gold, and THE PROBLEM STARTED. People accepting paper checks instead of the gold just because it was unsafe to carry, or rather heavy, meanwhile the goldsmiths had THE REAL POSESSION OF GOLD, and ofcourse asked themselves a simple question here, I have all this gold that is not mine nevertheless, I am in possesion of it, there's gotta be something I can do with it, and the INTEREST LOANS STARTED. That's how it all started, now remember a keyword here taken for granted by the people of England at that time, and still today by the whole world "POSESSION", this word goes farther than most people of the world in past and present times imagine. Not only did they go ahead to gain posession of the gold, and the throne of England, they also took control of the governments of Europe, and then finally saw a gold mine not only in the US, but in the whole continent of America they went ahead to do what the Spanish conquistadores planned to do on the lands they conquered by orders of the King, they needed to bring all the gold to spain, they were actually looking for a big city full of gold called El Dorado which was never found, so the orders changed dramatically instead of taking el Dorado and return to spain with all the gold, they had to stay, Claim POSESSION OF THE LAND AND THE PEOPLE forced them to work, read, and write and give them enough just to live to keep working for them in the mines so they could explode the land of all its resources, and send it all back to spain, that way the Gold that was never gotten from EL DORADO to pay for the campaign, and make Spain the richest country in Europe could eventually be extracted through slavery of the people of the New World through year of hard work. That is exactly what Britain is doing to the US and Canada in a much more quiet scale, under the table you could say, saying that it is legal to do so, like many sign posts I find around the city that say "IT'S THE LAW" "YOU WILL BE PROSECUTED" Working us to slowly get OUR money and pay for their expenses. Only this time it's not a King or Queen, IT"S A SECRET ALLIANCE OF BANKERS" who move the chess players.

posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 07:29 PM
Bartholomeo, I understand the point you are trying to make. That particular conspiracy theory is heavily discuss on ATS, as well as a few other sites that I know of . The main focus of my own arguement relates to present-day America and the trends that I've been able to identify using my own meager resources.

I recently had the privilidge of reading report from the Iraq Study Group. Nobody should be surprised to see that our nation's finest required eight months to state the obvious. All tha tells me is tha the looting of the Federal treatusry will a slightly reduced pace. It's worth noting that none of those recommendations involved cutting back on the contractors or their pay rates. No mention is made of fiscal responsibility.

The GOP losses in 2006 were not hard to predict. I wrote about them in my book, which fiest published in 2004. The fact of the matter is that both parties want the same thing, and they're not picky about how they get it. The battle for partisan control has gone on since the ink dried on the Constitution. In many respects, it doesn't matter which party wins this proxied culture war.

Political and social elites on both sides will benefit no matter which of these two established parties can claim a majority in Congress. As part of their last spending spree before the 109th Congress went out of session, our leaders voted to allocate funds that would stop a planned 5% cut in Medicare payments to doctors, while at the same time pushing through a trade bill that benefitted textile interests in Haiti.

There's a lot of buzz about the Democrat controlled congress that it is about to take office. The wild and unrealistic hope is that we will see some amount of reform from this body. Among the first things we should expect to see will be a hike in the minimum wage and athe passage of Mr. Bush preferred illegal immigration plan. both of tehse moves will have substantial effects on the economy, none of which will be good.

As much as many will look forward to the de-funding of the Iraq war, it's worth noting that the Democrat leadership will be apparently seduced by the same offerings made to the Republoicans by defense contractors in the last Congress. Anyone who doubts the power of this should take note of the fact that Lousiana's own William Jefferson...busted by the FBI for influence peddling...just got re-elected by a wide margine. Some of the cold cash the Feds found in his freezer paid for Mr. Jefferson's legal defense.

The fact of the matter is that the looting may slow down a bit, but it won't stop. There's less to make off with, so the next generation of pillagers will have to take a moment to pick through the wreckage to find the good stuff. 2007 promises a 12-month economic slow down that has been predicted by many on ATS. This down turn amounts to a self inflicted wound. If the many and varied ATS members can see it coming fomr a year out, you know it's going to be pretty bad.

posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham

I recently had the privilidge of reading report from the Iraq Study Group. Nobody should be surprised to see that our nation's finest required eight months to state the obvious. All tha tells me is tha the looting of the Federal treatusry will a slightly reduced pace. It's worth noting that none of those recommendations involved cutting back on the contractors or their pay rates. No mention is made of fiscal responsibility.

I want your soul

The biggest scam in History
Tell me the name of your book so I can go get a copy. I'm hoping to find any names of the elite families been used as puppets like the bush's I know david Ike makes mention of many of them, but I just can't buy the rest of his theorys. I re posted the paragraph on top because you mentioned that there was never any fiscal responsability regarding the looting of America, that is because as long as the white house, congress and senate are still obeying orders and getting paid off by a higher power even courts, and judges can be handled the same way. The biggest and most dissapointing thing of all this is that even the military could be obeying orders from some evil higher power, just the thought of it gives me chills.

posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 05:02 AM

I have sent you a u2 with details on where to get my book. There can be no doubt that this Preisdnet (Bush 43) is answering to big money interests. they did, after all, play a vital role in helping him in to office. Even if Hillary Clinton is the next President, even she will be answerable to the people who's names we will never know.

I'm trying to focus on what I can find using my own meager resources. If I can't backit up, I don't bring it to this forum. Wouldn't want to tarnish that CM badge. As more and more people get to know my name, I am being "given" more and more material that bears very close scrutiny.

The banking lobby htat you seem to be so knowledgeable about is certainly a factor in world politics. They are human, and they make mistakes. Part of what we must do now is try harder to seperate mistakes from Machievellian manipulations. It's a fact of life that eveyrbody gets conned at some point. All we can ever do is try to be harder to fool.

posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 10:41 PM
I have received more than 30 messages from ATS members asking for 2008 political predictions. AFter some hesitaiton, I am now ready to make my first long-range prognostication that you should be able to verify for yourselves as 2007 unfolds.

As we begin the calendar year of 2007, we'll be able to see for ourselves just how far Democrats and Republicans alike are willing to go in their quest to achieve total power. Because both sides want what is fundamentally the same thing, we are left with no real good choice when it comes to this time.

As concerned as we are, the fact remains that too few of us are able to see this looming catastrophe for what it really is. With this in mind, I'd like to begin the new year by pointing out a series of things that you'll be able to monitor and verify for yourself. It's one thing to hear it from other people. It's another matter completely to see the trend for yourself.

Since 2000, the trend towards greater centralization of Federal power has increased considerably. Trouble is, there has been no one single "definitive" example which has captured the public's imagination. Each step foward that has been taken by our political elites has been small and easily explained.

In 2004, President Bush opted to NOT take Federal matching funds for his re-election bid. His challenger (John Kerry) made the smae choice. This paved the way for each of these candidates to raise unlimited sums of money for political purposes. As we conclude 2006, we find ourselves on track to witness the most expensive political race in human history.

As 2007 unfolds, you'll see more money spent on Presidential politics than at any time in our past. Just to show you that I'm not the only one who had something to say on this subject, I offer the following link:


This observation is important for just one reason. It represents a clear and unambiguous escalation in the fight for the praverbial soul of this country. The unspken truth about this trend in our politics is that we have it in our power to prevent what will surely be a bad ending...if...the politicians get their way.

Democrat and GOP contenders are coming out early this time. Don't let the spectacle of "Obama-mania" fool you. These guys and gals are coming out early because the fight will be more vicious than it has ever been. Buying up ALL of the available t.v. air time is just one strategic option to used by whoever can write the first check the fastest.

All of this will be done right in front of you. That's how confident they are. All the strategy gurus are banking on the fact that you'll be turned off by the hype, or tangled up in the ussues. One way or another, you'll be expected to ignore what's being done out in the open as these two juggernaughts fight for total control of the nation's political institutions. The people's business is the last thing on their minds.

If you're not sure that any of this matters, please consider one thing. Whoever takes office in January of 2009 will inherit more Executive power than any other previous President. Not even FDR had this much juice as a war-time leader. When you factor in the next round of crushing defeats for the Republicans in the House and the Senate, it seems clear that a Democrat will rule with unheard of power in 2009 and beyond.

It's expected by many sources that both parties will each spend $100 million dollars on media in 2007. We should expect that amount to double or even triple in 2008. As you watch this happen, pay attention to what they do with that money. It'll be spent on more than just commercials and ad space. Any good background investigation to find the other guy's dirt can take a million dollars or more. The costs of hiding such dirt can be much more spendy.

It's a good idea to remember that what I'm talking about here is the "visible" money. The things both parties will do with covert funds will curl your hair. Don't believe me? Watch and see what the Democrat majority does with it's various investigative committees through 2007. Remember that in the arena politics, it doesn't have to be true. It just has to be...plausible.

Keep your own notes, and draw your own conclusions. This phase of the battle will demonstrate just how serious the power-brokers really are, and that's no conspiracy.

posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 03:54 AM

As 2007 unfolds, you'll see more money spent on Presidential politics than at any time in our past.

They wake up from the fact that a big third party could run and defeat both of them in 2008, so that's why they made no limits to the campaign... So all big corporations will fund democrats and republicans, and if a third party is going into the course, they will NEVER equal in money those two parties, they could win if the people see past the money... but it would be a hard thing to do, that and the Diebold machines.

posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 05:51 AM
The political and legislative events of 2007 will certainly give us greater insight in to the agendas of the power elite. What they do will be just as important as what they do not do. As a practical matter, you won’t see roll-backs of warrant-less wiretapping or a repeal of the Military Commissions Act. Every degradation of the Posse Comitatus Act will remain in force.

As I write this, the policy wonks are turning their attention to the new Congress. As the 110th Congress goes in to session, all eyes will be on the agenda carried out in their first 100 hours of legislative activity. First among the many procedural actions to take place will be a few rules changes. Nothing too heavy. Just the usual in-house “stuff” that the majority party does to ensure that the minority party can’t abuse Parliamentary procedure beyond a certain point.

Food for Thought

Among the more important actions that should catch your attention will be a rush to pass new rules designed to make it harder for lobbyists to buy influence. While this is fundamentally a good thing, it comes with a hidden long-term cost that most won’t suspect or even quibble over once they find out about it. These new rules, which Congress can enforce on itself by a simple floor vote, will mean that the majority party will have even tighter control over who is able to bring a bill to committee, or beyond.

Don’t mistake lobbyist reform for campaign finance reform. These new rules will make it harder for lobbyists to trade money for votes…which will affect how both parties are dealt with by K street…but…Having the power of greater punishments at their disposal will enhance the Democrat party’s power to monitor, molest, or malign any member of the opposition that they choose.

The Republicans didn’t institute these “reforms” on their watch because their leadership couldn’t think that far ahead. The known extent of their party’s corruption was simply too great to reign in on short notice. Remember that bureaucracies move slowly. The 12-14 year orgy that GOP leaders enjoyed was a distraction that kept them from fortifying their positions. It’s not unreasonable to expect a hungry minority to notice this mistake…and…take steps to avoid it when they ascend to power.

Even as the Republicans swear and suffer under the chains of their own minority status now, they’ll be looking to the future. That’s because they know that the political wheel always turns. Today you’re on top, and tomorrow your not. It’s only a matter of time until they learn the long-term lesson that’s about to be taught to them…the hard war. What you’re actually going to see here is a procedural foundation being set up to justify greater procedural and plenipotentiary powers for the House and the Senate in the future.

The long term struggle between Federalists and Anti-Federalists has been waged on many levels in many ways. Now that the Republican party has been curbed, it’ll need to be cut off and isolated in order to ensure that it’s Anti-Federalist core can’t rally to make a come-back any time soon. The best way for Federalist forces to stay in command is to take the steps that will enshrine their power. There can’t be any opposition in the House or the Senate if the rules won’t allow it.

Under the guise of these reforms, you’ll see midnight planners considering some very bold options. These could include a loud and aggressive charge under the banner of patriotism to “implement” the un-used recommendations of the 9-11 Commission. Bearing in mind that all of those proposed security-conscious regulations would be implemented and forced by the Federal government…which would require…and expanded bureaucracy.

As a practical fact, some degree of political advantage can be gained from the passing of any new law or the making of any new rule. There will no doubt be a clamor for an increase in the Federally-mandated minimum wage. This could be one of the first hot topics dealt with by the new congress. Economic forecasters have already made ominous predictions for 2007. These projections will be known to the men and women who cast their votes. Any fiscal turmoil that results from a hike of the minimum wage will most likely be answered by more proposed government programs meant to offset that suffering. Any expansion of government programs will mean, by default, an expansion of the Federal bureaucracy. We should not be surprised to see a 2-3% growth in the national legal authority in 2007.

posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 08:57 AM
When President Bush signed H.R. 6407 (Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act) in to law on December 20 of 2006, he used his prerogative in the signing statement to assert that the Executive Branch had the authority to read your mail without getting a warrant.

To learn more, click on the following link:

This important news item seems to have escaped the attention of most people. I know that it almost got past me. If a fan of my work had not pointed it out, I may have remained unaware of this Constitutional hatchet-job until much later in 2007. As you can see from the link itself, this news item really is taken directly from the White House web site.

Unless this signing statement is legally challenged, it will be upheld by the Federal courts as fact and policy. I gring this to your attention as just one more example of the relentless drive towards centralization and consolidation of expanding Federal power. This is just one more variant of what I warned against in my first novel, “Politics & Patriotism: The Fisk Conspiracy.”

As I write, Federal authorities now have it in their power to conduct warrantless surveillance of you and yours in virtually every possible aspect. Your mail and your phone are at their mercy. Your home can be entered on the merest of suspicions without your knowledge. You yourself can be detained for no reason. In the unfortunate event that any of these things happen to you, it’s up to Uncle Sam if you get a lawyer…or not.

The safeguards against unlawful search, seizure, and surveillance which have until now been part of the U.S. Constitution…are almost gone. They can be brought back by successful legal challenge. In the fullness of time, I have every hope that they will return once sane-er heads prevail in Federal, State, and local governments. Until this happens, we’ve only got ourselves to blame for the misery we inflict on our nation and its honest people.

posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 12:25 AM
when do you feel that the much unvaunted North American Union will be slipped over on the unwilling populace of our three countries?
And how do you think it will come about?
By fear mongering and manipulation of the econmies of the involved countries or will it be brought in through military intervention on a local level?
ie Police forces backed by federal troops?
Do you see a tightening of the NAFTA tying our economies inextricably together?
Very little is being bandied about in the press but there are all kinds if liason and planning going on it seems....
A highway being built, Military co-operation already well under way at least with canada.....
Any predictions or thoughts?

posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 01:29 AM

Originally posted by bergle
When do you feel that the much unvaunted North American Union will be slipped over on the unwilling populace of our three countries?

You can use this link to reach a very good thread that was active earlier this year. The short answer is that I now think that it will happen later this century. The forward momentum of power as it relates to corporations and bureaucracies is such that centralization seems to be the norm.

And how do you think it will come about? By fear mongering and manipulation of the econmies of the involved countries or will it be brought in through military intervention on a local level? ie Police forces backed by federal troops?

The rise of the NAU can be directly linked to the increase in power that's held by the Federal executive branch. As power continues to centralize, you see the Federal bureaucracy become even more powerful and intrusive than it is today. The office of the President will eventually posess enough power to negate the will of Congress. When that happens, you'll see a deliberate legislative move to create and maintain the North American Union as a permanent trade bloc.

Do you see a tightening of the NAFTA tying our economies inextricably together?

NAFTA, CAFTA, and what passes for the current incarnation of the North American Free Trade Alliance will be regarded by future historians as the earliest steps down the road toward the creation of a new hemispherical economic entity.

Very little is being bandied about in the press but there are all kinds if liason and planning going on it seems...A highway being built, Military co-operation already well under way at least with canada.....
Any predictions or thoughts?

My predictions, as presented here and in my published work, aren't hard to guess at or verify. All you've got to do is watch the American Federal government and the office of the U.S. President. These bureacracies will "telegraph" their moves years in advance, as they've already done. You've only got to look at the Presidency of George W. Bush to see the legislative course changes that have already been made.

There aren't many barriers to hold them back. The social and political elites who want this are gambling that there will be no civil wars in Canada, The United States, or Mexico to stop them. In the United States, a lengthy and deliberate campaign of social erosion and divisive politics have served their interests very well since the end of the Vietnam war.

Within the United States, we are fast approaching the point of no return. As you've read in this thread (and others), I'm of the opinion that the next President is likely to be the one who empowers the Federal juggernaught with enough authority to negate the few remaining Constitutional safeguards that prevent the North American Union and other things from happening.

Americans have a choice to make. We can accept what's coming, or we can fight back. For now, that resistence need only be in the form of ballots. As we've seen in 2006, it's still possible to vote a political party out of its majority in the House and in the Senate. We should take this to mean that other reforms are are also still possible...for the moment.

The trends in centralization that I and others talk about are not new. They've been with us since the ink dried on the Constitution. It's altogether possible that we've seen the end of the Republican party as we know it, and the end of small-government advocacy as we know it. Even if civil war is truely our ultimate last resort, it's still a question of whether or not we would actually do it.

posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 07:24 AM
It's being reported that Haliburton oil services corporation is going to move its headquarters from the U.S. (Texas) to the United Arab Emirates (Dubai).

The AP story is included here for your convenience.

i wanted to bring this to your attention for several reasons. The issue I'd like to address in this thread is government collusion. As conspiracies go, this one is a real peice of work. Once departed from U.S. shores, Haliburton's company records and leadership will be out of reach of any Congressional subpoena.

According to the source posted for this discussion, Haliburton's subsidiary KBR has overcharged the Federal government for military support services to the amount of ten billion dollars. It's not going to surprise me to learn over the coming week that KBR is now up for sale by the exiting carpet baggers.

Chances are good that they'll get away with the extra ten billion dollars. As much as this fleecing of America will hurt, its a drop in the bucket compaired to the extent to which this multi-national corporation has helped officials inside the Federal government gain and hold on to greater amounts of power.

I bring this to your attention because it demonstrates my point, which you have seen at length in the beginning of this thread. The social and economic damage done to this country by our social and political elites is, by their reckoning, "acceptable." It's altogether possible that the partisan fallout from this relocation will further setback the anti-Federalist forces which ave already been crippled by design.

Does the Haliburton 'theft' mark the start of a new phase in the campaign to consolodate power?

posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Once departed from U.S. shores, Haliburton's company records and leadership will be out of reach of any Congressional subpoena.

I'm not sure about that, Justin.

From the Breaking News thread:

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

The company will maintain its existing corporate office here as well as its legal incorporation in the United States, meaning that it will still be subject to domestic laws and regulations.

They're establishing a new World Headquarters in Dubai and moving the CEO and Vice CEO there. They're not "moving out" of Houston nor relocating the entire company. As I said in the other thread, it makes good business sense to "set up shop" in the neighborhood where you do , or are looking to do, most of your business.

As for the current SEC investigations and such I guess only time will tell, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it gains little or no media attention. You know ... that might compete with American Idiot

posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 09:37 PM
I can understand your reservations. On the one hand, it does make sense forthis company to reposition for commercial purposes. I still suspect they are positioning to evade a hostile Congress. With so many no-bid contracts behind them, for which they have been paid, it seems unlikely that they will remit the overcharges. I contend that this is a case of politicians and corporate leaders colluding to benefit each other at the expense of the American taxpayer. I can think of few things that are more conspiratorial than that, which I is why I brought up the point in this thread.

posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 05:28 PM

I never realised how military power was creeping up on us here in the USA. You mention how military power is not intended for use against US citizens. As I was reading, I happen to think of one more example that I didn't see anywhere in your Posts on this thread that I respectfully wish to bring to light:

The National Security Agency: The National Security Agency or NSA is the US intelligence Agency that is in charge of Electronic Evesdropping, known as SIGINT in military circles.

The issue of warrentless evesdropping on Americans by the NSA has been in the News many times. Here are a few examples:
NSA Wiretapping

Illeagal Wiretapping by NSA

New Developments in NSA Wiretapping Case

Here's what many people don't realize: The Director of the NSA is a Military Officer. At the moment, that job belongs to US Army Lt. General Keith B. Alexander.

The military runs the NSA! and the NSA is Spying on America.


posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 06:40 PM
Hello again ghostly Tim. You make a good point. I'd like to bring your attetnion to this thread which will expand on what you just pointed out. It's a topic that I brought to everyone's attention a while back, but it does back up everything you just said. Would you care to elaborate on your thinking?

posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:17 PM

Military forces are meant to be a defense for the nation. However, left unchecked, military forces have the ability to become a threat.

The origional framers of our government understood this. In an effort to provide a check for the power of the military, they put civilians at the top levels of the chain of command. Now in order to make an informed decision, leaders need to have accurate information to work from. Gathering this information for both the Military and Civilian leaders are our Nation's Intelligence Agencies: CIA, NSA, DIA, etc.

Now the tasking and management of US Intlligence falls to a group that is composed of the heads of the diferent agencies that gather the information. By logical default, bigger agencies gather and process more information, therefore they have more influence over the Intelligence as a whole. This gives them the ability to manipulte information as needed.

The two Largest intelligence agencies by budget and comitment of resources are the NSA and the CIA, which handle the three largest intelligence collection and processing tasks: General HUMINT, IMAGINT, and SIGINT. While I don't have exact numbers, these three types of intel account for over 1/2 of all the intelligence gathered and used every day.

The ability to manipulate information is a powerful tool. It allows leaders to provide the backing for actiong they wish to take from increase in bordar security, to the employment of military forces. It was information about the threat of terrorism that the President and other used to justify actions such as the Patriot Act, which gave the government more power to probe into the private lives of US citizens.

Now, in my last post, I touched on the issue of Warrentless evesdropping on US citizens by the NSA. The fact that the NSA is doing this without a warrant means that they are now snooping into people's lives without oversight. The whole purpose to a warrent is to ensure that the government is respecting our 4th Amendment rights.

If we remember that that the military is controling the NSA, and the NSA is now spying on us without probable cause, the Military now has the ability to track the private lives of US citizens to a large degree. They can (in theory) also use this information to justify action taken on the part of the military or though covert action groups under the Director of Central Intelligence.

Now, by allowing the NSA, under the command of the military to spy on people's private lives, and then expanding this to now include the CIA and the rest of US intelligence, which is under the control of an Active Duty Military Officer who is serving as the Director of Central Intelligence, we have created a loop hole in the system! In theory, it can be argued that having a General as Director of Central intelligence, Violates the Posse Comitatus Act , as was said in another thread. The Military can now act against US citizens and hide it involvement behind the Director of Central Intelligence, who B.T.W. can direct covert military and Paramilitary activities to a limited degree as well.

In summery the two Key point here are:

1. The military is now in a postion to manipulate intelligence to suit their needs and wants.

2. The Military can now take action against people within the US, in violation of the Possie Comitatus Act, by employing civilians to do their dirty work.

We've just crossed a VERY Dangerous line here!


posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 01:25 AM
You said that very well. The trend we face brings with it some very sobering facts, and a very undesirable ending if we're not careful. Power, in its many forms, requires a good person to be somewhat resistent to its charms. Even so, we are only human and humans do make mistakes.

History dictates that this trend towards greater centralization of power will eventually result in the failure of our government. This failure seems most likely to manifest itself in the form of a President and political party that will seek total power, as per the conditions layed out in my published work and in this thread.

posted on Mar, 16 2007 @ 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Power, in its many forms, requires a good person to be somewhat resistent to its charms. Even so, we are only human and humans do make mistakes.

Very True! I think the English Lord Acton sumed it up best:

"Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts Absolutly"

The lure of power has turned many to the dark side.


posted on Mar, 16 2007 @ 10:27 PM
I'm sure that many of the people who enable today's trend toward bigger government do so with the best of intentions. As the next President assumes even greater power than exists today, they'll be doing so with five fatal words on their lips. "It's for your own good."

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