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How would the US fare in the next world war?

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posted on May, 8 2006 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by M6D
its also very ignorant and very cocky to make such bold statements, i not anti american,but i can see why people ARE anti american when they see such outlandish and overboard statements like that, which is basically saying 'america, ub3r force of the world'!! america is NOT invincible,however they ARE highly capable in theyre own right.


Whatever position you come from, there is no denying that the US Armed Forces are by far the premier military in the world. Could they beat the whole world, LOL no country can and ever will - there just isn't the population demographics ( even with China ) to be able to control the world through militray force.

But hey, it's kinda pretty stupid talking about WW3 and America being alone - they would be in alliance with the other western powers.

[edit on 8-5-2006 by rogue1]




posted on May, 8 2006 @ 06:35 AM
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Oh no, Iraq has the 4th largest military in the world, they are going to tear right through the US Military in 1991 and 2003. Oh wait, that never happened.

Oh no, The US is horrible at guerilla tactics, except in 2005 the rest of the world has acknowledged the US military guerilla and counter insurgency tactics as the best, to the point Europe and the Pacific come to the US for training now. Wasn't reported on CNN, because Iraq is a quagmire remember?

Oh no, Iraq is a mess, except the part about Al Qaeda on the run, the government has been stood up, the Iraqi military is one of the most professional in the Middle East, and most of the problems are former Saddam hands looking for revenge dating back decades. But CNN says Civil War!

Oh no, Iran would cause so much damage to the US and is an enormous threat, because a country whose total GDP is 1/3 the US military budget alone is such an enormous threat to the world stage. Most people probably don't realize this, but the UK has more SAM batteries in the Gulf than Iran does. Won't hear that reported on the BBC or CNN.

The world is constantly falling for some people, mostly because it is very easy for the media to manipulate people.



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Hi Heckman How arrogant of you to think I am jealous of you or any American. Its to be expected I suppose, that's the trouble with some of you, you dont like hearing what is not pro American. You do not like hearing the truth, only your version of it. America today is seen as an aggressor by many people (just as we were with our empire).


America in modern times has never been attacked or invavded so how well will you stand up to it when or if it comes either it be by EU, China, Russia, the mexicans (they might want New Mexico back). How well will you cope, no fighters available on 9/11, good job you were not invaded that day. How good are you at fighting defensively rather than offensively.


Hmm ok LMAO, on the other hand how much experience do any of these ficticious enemies have of invading other countries across entire oceans. You are living in some alternate reality, you don't seem to have any idea of the US militray capability and the capability of these countries which you see as potential invaders of America.
Come on tell us with your incredible knowlege how CHina or Russia or the EU would invade America ?

You are arguments are pointless, ridiculous and have no basis in reality let alone fact.



How arrogant for Americans to say only certain people can have nuclear weapons but not others. America is the only country to use atomic weapons against an unprotected civillian target, and no it was not used to save American lives it was about trying out the new technology.


Well here's a classic statement of someon who has probably never picked up a history book dealing with WWII - no point dealing with the unwashed. NEXT.


As for facts I have given them to you in my previous posting, and yes you are being beaten financially by the EU and China , check the figures. When you go shopping again check how many goods are from China or the EU, the more you buy of these products the quicker your economy will unraval. I know you find it unpalatable to see America taking a back seat but hey sh-t happens.


Now this statement is almost as funny as the previous ones. When you go shopping next time, you should check to see how many goods are on your shelves which were made in China. Funny thing is though, alot of those companies in CHina are US owned

Here's a few interesting facts for you as you obviously haven't bothered reading about the 2 economies you're trying to compare - the EU and the US. From 2005 estimates.

  • 1. GDP per capita or PPP
    US = $42 000
    EU = $28 100

  • 2. GDP real growth rate
    US = 3.5%
    EU = 1.7%

  • 3. Unemployment Rate
    US = 5.1%
    EU = 9.4%

  • 4. Industrial Production Growth Rate
    US = 3.2%
    EU = 1.3%


Anyway just a few facts.



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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boy love these type of threads, coming in late


how would the US fare in a world war and if nuclear weapons were not used?

the only conflict thats looming over the horizon that could spark and turn into a WORLD WAR is the one between the US vs CHINA over TAIWAN

the scenario
WW3 2050-65
major players
the US, TAIWAN, JAPAN, SOUTH KOREA, PHILIPPINES, UK(but is unable to enter full scale) (AUSTRALIA, status uncertain) vs CHINA, and NORTH KOREA(because of the SOUTH and JAPAN's involvement)
neutrals the EU(lead by FRANCE), INDIA, PAKISTAN, ISREAL and RUSSIA

note the US and the UK still maintain large forces in EUROPE, IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN

in this case scenario the outcome would be TAIWAN would fall to CHINA and an stalemate cease fire would be reached between the 2 parties

reason
even by the US own admission, by this time CHINA would have the capability to challenge it's status. by 2050 CHINA would have a "true Blue water Navy" of advance surfaces ships and subs(including aircraft carriers) that would be able to counter an US lead naval task force.
CHINA would also have "stealth capability" and technology, advanced missiles system, advanced bombers, 4.5 to 5 generation fighters(who's pilots "are highly skilled" in air combat tactics)to counter US lead air strikes, and including a vast advanced space based systems program to rival that of the US.



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
As for facts I have given them to you in my previous posting, and yes you are being beaten financially by the EU and China , check the figures. When you go shopping again check how many goods are from China or the EU, the more you buy of these products the quicker your economy will unraval. I know you find it unpalatable to see America taking a back seat but hey sh-t happens.


By any commonly accepted metric of economic health, America is burying the EU. Given europe's demographic death spiral, they have NO hopes of being a greater world force than they are now.

While China does have very high growth, you can’t compare their growth to America’s because most people in China are buying their first car, tv or refrigerator. Additonally, China energy dependence is even greater than America’s

Seriously, get a clue.



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by LAWNMOWERMAN
reason
even by the US own admission, by this time CHINA would have the capability to challenge it's status. by 2050 CHINA would have a "true Blue water Navy" of advance surfaces ships and subs(including aircraft carriers) that would be able to counter an US lead naval task force.
CHINA would also have "stealth capability" and technology, advanced missiles system, advanced bombers, 4.5 to 5 generation fighters(who's pilots "are highly skilled" in air combat tactics)to counter US lead air strikes, and including a vast advanced space based systems program to rival that of the US.


Well another question has to be asked, where will US militray technology be by then. I can easily see in 40 years time that the US will have the ability to attack pinpoint targets on earth from space, using kinetc, directed energy or other means.

Also, I would be incredibly disappointed if pilots were still being used, bring forth the UCAV.



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Shortmanx5
How are you gonna do that ask france if you can use there aircraft carrier for a while,

I doubt it
I’d be too scared of it breaking down



Originally posted by Shortmanx5
We have 12 large carriers and some other small ones, the rest of the world has like 4 and they arent even all full size if any.

Where are you getting your information? The rest of the world has 13 aircraft carriers.

www.globalsecurity.org...


Originally posted by Shortmanx5
Maybe that would help if you had enough planes, your airforce has around 300, the usa would send a lot of carriers , we would have more planes even tho you wqould be fighting from your homeland.

Again, where are you getting your information? The British army alone has 290 aircraft. The Royal Navy has 210, and the Royal Air force 942 (including helicopters). That equates to almost 1500 aircraft.
en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by Shortmanx5
we have more fighters on 4 or 5 carriers than your whole af.

Nimitz class Aircraft Carriers carry around 85 aircraft. On 5 carriers that would equal around 425 aircraft, nowhere near the 1500 aircraft in the British armed forces. Even if you sent 11 Nimitz (the 12th being in refit) that would only equal just over 900 aircraft. Do not forget that we wouldn’t have to sink a carrier, only put it out of action. A bombed out carrier deck takes much longer to repair than a land based airfield. Also, you wouldn’t be able to fly as many sorties.

In addition, think what would happen if you sent your entire force of super carriers all the way over to the UK… You wouldn’t destabilise the balance of force throughout the world would you? China wouldn’t take a shot at Taiwan for example?
en.wikipedia.org...-68.29


Originally posted by Shortmanx5
And if it came to a land war, you have the second best tank ,first if you ask a brit, but again you have 300 challengers while we have thousands of m1's. So not much of a fight.

Lol. How are you going to get those 1000’s tanks all across the Atlantic? If you hadn’t noticed, it is quite big and it would be quite easy for our attack submarine’s to take out!


Originally posted by NegativeBeef
lol we would stip england of it's army in 2 days.

Lol. Care to elaborate how you’d achieve this? Do you have a secret alliance with little green men who will vaporise us all at your request?

Oh and btw, I take it you are referring to the United Kingdom. England is one of the 4 constituent countries with in the UK.

p.s. My first post. I hope I've added more coal to the fire



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 08:03 PM
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Haha shortmanx5 is too hillarious.... I don't think anyone can really pay attention to that kid.

He gets his info from hollywood movies and tries to act like hes a military genius...
That guy thinks that the Chinese army is a bunch of peasants with aks and that China's only military tactic is to rush millions of them to suicide.


Welcome to ATS mag1q... sadly, there are plenty like shortman roaming around here.



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by mAg1q



Yes but there are only 4 full sized ones iam not talking about ones that only hold 35 planes. And when i said 300 i meant fighter planes, i was not including helios. HAHA your subs are gonna take out ours and then the transports...keep dreaming. Also to let you know we have tanks in your country already. We might have an alliance but not to my knowledge... (*removed childish insult*). Its not worth agruing about , most people know england would not be able to defend it self from the united states. if could defend yourself you wouldnt have needed us to keep a bunch of troops, tanks ,etc in your country during the cold war. Your navy isnt going to stop the usa if they wanted to invade. we wont but it could be done.

Mod edit: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote
...and stop the insults now!

[edit on 2006/5/9 by Hellmutt]



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
Haha shortmanx5 is too hillarious.... I don't think anyone can really pay attention to that kid.

He gets his info from hollywood movies and tries to act like hes a military genius...
That guy thinks that the Chinese army is a bunch of peasants with aks and that China's only military tactic is to rush millions of them to suicide.


Welcome to ATS mag1q... sadly, there are plenty like shortman roaming around here

How many time do i have to say i dont think they would do that. Stop and think for moment please. But to compare usa to china;s troops is a joke and i would hope you know that. Chinas troops arent the best trained in the world , no where near it. Stop acting like china is this great powerful country. its not. Everyone is just so happy to try and find someone to challenge the usa... China is not a good country why do people defend it so much. (*removed another insult*). Maybe someday europe will matter again, and then you can stop bashing the usa...Until then keep your mouth closed and maybe when you need us again and you will. the people in this country would actaully want to help. if iran gets a nuke, its you not us who is range so remember that when they threaten you and you need the big bad us to come and save your ass. the english are becoming more and more french!!

[edit on 9-5-2006 by shortmanx5]
mod edit: fixed quote-tag

[edit on 2006/5/9 by Hellmutt]



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Shortmanx5

Yes but there are only 4 full sized ones iam not talking about ones that only hold 35 planes. And when i said 300 i meant fighter planes, i was not including helios. [Bold]HAHA your subs are gonna take out ours and then the transports...keep dreaming. Also to let you know we have tanks in your country already. We might have an alliance but not to my knowledge...dumbass.[/Bold] Its not worth agruing about , most people know england would not be able to defend it self from the united states. if could defend yourself you wouldnt have needed us to keep a bunch of troops, tanks ,etc in your country during the cold war. Your navy isnt going to stop the usa if they wanted to invade. we wont but it could be done.



seriously, enough of the flaming, calling someone a dumbass is NOT needed. Try to keep the discussion intelligent and not flaming each other.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by truttseeker]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by truttseeker]



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Anyone want to start a thread about chinas economy?

Look at your dicrection rouge1


Originally posted by rogue1
They are both each others largest trading partners, to say one could do without the other shows a complete lack of economic knowledge.


------------------------------


Originally posted by shortmanx5
But to compare usa to china;s troops is a joke and i would hope you know that. Chinas troops arent the best trained in the world , no where near it.


And you would know how?



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by truttseeker

Originally posted by Shortmanx5

Yes but there are only 4 full sized ones iam not talking about ones that only hold 35 planes. And when i said 300 i meant fighter planes, i was not including helios. [Bold]HAHA your subs are gonna take out ours and then the transports...keep dreaming. Also to let you know we have tanks in your country already. We might have an alliance but not to my knowledge...dumbass.[/Bold] Its not worth agruing about , most people know england would not be able to defend it self from the united states. if could defend yourself you wouldnt have needed us to keep a bunch of troops, tanks ,etc in your country during the cold war. Your navy isnt going to stop the usa if they wanted to invade. we wont but it could be done.



seriously, enough of the flaming, calling someone a dumbass is NOT needed. Try to keep the discussion intelligent and not flaming each other.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by truttseeker]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by truttseeker]



Flaming...hahaha,



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Anyone want to start a thread about chinas economy?

Look at your dicrection rouge1


Originally posted by rogue1
They are both each others largest trading partners, to say one could do without the other shows a complete lack of economic knowledge.


------------------------------


Originally posted by shortmanx5
But to compare usa to china;s troops is a joke and i would hope you know that. Chinas troops arent the best trained in the world , no where near it.


And you would know how?


Actaully canada is americas largest trading partner not china. A billion a day. How do i know americas are better... your joking right?



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 11:10 PM
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whats chinas defence bugdet compared to the usa's. Chinas is at most 90 billion and thats not the offical one...cant trust china. Even at 90 and that the high end. americas is over 400 and that the low ball offical budget. Thats how i know, also when was the last time china actually got realy combat training.Last time i checked americas troops had better fighting for years. If you think chinas are better then you must think that their troops are better than every england,france,japan,etc. And we nkow they arent even at that level so how would they better than the usas. I get you are proud of what iam guessing is your country, but come on you sound like iran and iraq. Iraq said they americans couldnt beat their army...and look at what happened to their military. Oh yea it doesnt exist anymore that right.



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by shortmanx5
Actaully canada is americas largest trading partner not china. A billion a day. How do i know americas are better... your joking right?


My mistake, I should have said, China is the country which the US has by far the largest trade deficit. What's more is US companies are increasingly importing from China, which will only lead to a larger deficit.

www.census.gov...



posted on May, 9 2006 @ 11:32 PM
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Shortman... LOL?! Your statements are too funny to read.

First of all, I am an American, and second of all... I NEVER said China's military was BETTER than the United States'.All I did was address what you have said. You have mentioned that China's army was a hundreds of millions of peasants with it's sole tactic of suicide.
All I did was point out your complete ignorance on this issue.

I mean... come on shortman, it's not too hard to look up info on China's military. I STRONGLY, STRONGLY urge you read up a bit before you utter your... hillarious? statements.

sinodefence.com...




Secondly, do you think military might is all that is needed to win a war? Seriously, is that what you honestly believe? Have you already forgotten the Vietnam war? We didn't lose that war because we had a superior army, navy, or airforce... We LOST that war because the public had no heart to fight it. War is not all about military might... MANY, MANY factors come into play such as capable leadership, the will and heart of the soldiers to fight for a cause they believe in, etc.


It doesn't take a genius to realize that everything you say, shortman, is completely... foolish.







[edit on 9-5-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by shortmanx5 How do i know americas are better... your joking right?


Do you think im joking?


Even at 90 and that the high end. americas is over 400 and that the low ball offical budget.


Ok.

We both buy the same choclate bar. Mine is 1 dollar and yours is 4 dollars. Which one is better?


Shortman, Your assuming that americans troops are better than the french, british?. Where is your chinese army training guide.? or are you just assuming because its the good ole american GI?


Iraq said they americans couldnt beat their army...and look at what happened to their military


The Anti-war lobby in america said they would suffer massive loses in the gulf war not the iraqis. Difference ....no?

The iraqis let the americans build up their strength in a neighbouring country without any interferance. Which country is america going to use?



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite


Lets see about that maybe japan, since thats where we have troops and and aircraft carrier wheres chinas aircraft carrier or right you dont have any any. I love being from the greatest country on the earth. you can say all you want i still I am better. I love it!!



Mod edit: removed quote of the entire previous post. Read this: excessive quoting, and how to quote. You got some u2us from me. Read them!

[edit on 2006/5/10 by Hellmutt]



posted on May, 10 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
Shortman... LOL?! Your statements are too funny to read.

First of all, I am an American, and second of all... I NEVER said China's military was BETTER than the United States'.All I did was address what you have said. You have mentioned that China's army was a hundreds of millions of peasants with it's sole tactic of suicide.
All I did was point out your complete ignorance on this issue.

I mean... come on shortman, it's not too hard to look up info on China's military. I STRONGLY, STRONGLY urge you read up a bit before you utter your... hillarious? statements.

sinodefence.com...




Secondly, do you think military might is all that is needed to win a war? Seriously, is that what you honestly believe? Have you already forgotten the Vietnam war? We didn't lose that war because we had a superior army, navy, or airforce... We LOST that war because the public had no heart to fight it. War is not all about military might... MANY, MANY factors come into play such as capable leadership, the will and heart of the soldiers to fight for a cause they believe in, etc.


It doesn't take a genius to realize that everything you say, shortman, is completely... foolish.

Whatever you say, buddy. The only reason we would even think about fighting china is if were a good reason. like if they attacked tawain, look at history if someone #s with us we pretty much vaporize you . Just ask the japs. If china did something to make america mad enough it wouldnt be good for china. Everytime america was attacked the people get mad and they support war and if that happens bye bye china.







[edit on 9-5-2006 by k4rupt]



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