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If US Attacks Iran, Iran Attacks Israel

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posted on May, 3 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
bain, over the course of your posts i have disagreed with you mainly because it sounds like your living in a precapitalistic america. one i wish i was living in, but im not and its obvious if you look around. Im going to ask you a question, in no offensive manner, have you ever been to one of these countries? Have you really seen any thing we have done physically?

~~~~~~~~~
Look at our country, look at its main interests, look at its financial ties. Who exactly is this country fighting for. now before you say freedom i want you to think. Think about the billions of dollars corporation have invested in the government. Think about the billions more they have invested in the military. Think about the billions of dollars of profit that can be made. Think about the genocides in Danfur and think about the suffering of african nations which are going through alot more hardship then most the middle east. Think about the genocides in china we hardly even speak about. Think about whos going to benefit ultimately from these wars.

Now tell me, arent you the least bit suspecting of a government, media, and military owned by mostly the same business (since most companies has parent companies, which lead back to about 10 major corporations, who own just about everything in this country). For a moment discard the "facts" and look at common sense. Billions in profit, and a monopoly on oil...or corporations fighting for our rights? these same corporations like dyncorp, caught in human trafficing scandals.

I wish it was about freedom, but our system has been changed on us. Money is what the US stands for now, and has since capitalism rose up in dominance. Your freedoms really mean nothing when it comes to money. Globalization is worth more then your rights, or anyone elses.



I agree with a lot that you touched upon.

I'm speaking about what American is supposed to stand for and when the nation is at its absolute best, what it does stand for.

Being pro U.S. to me is about standing up for what is right - America and the American court system is about political influence, it is about who has the most money and the most power - but that is not how it is supposed to be.

I will reply later with a more indepth response - as your reply deserves it and i respect your views and how you handled the reply.

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on May, 3 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Bain
I'm an American by birthright, my 3rd cousin was Lyndon B. Johnson (Former President of the U.S.) A long, long distant and related kin folk was DonalBain of Mcbeth fame (Former king of scottland) and I also have indian (Cherokee) blood running through my veins. I do believe the U.S. Government is corrupt in certain places, but I also believe that as Fellow Humans - they have values and morals which thrive on protecting innocent people from the Madmen of the world.



You wanna talk relations? I am the direct descendant of the man who made modern western law UNDER GOD, the justice system as it exists today, and who also was the royal treasurer (minister of finances), second only to the king himself, from 1280 to 1302 here in Norway. He was also foreign minister and the kings personal lawyer, had his own army and was also a Baron. He was the first cousin of the king, and served under two successive kings, and ruled in the place of one untill he became an adult. He made alliances so that Scotland itself was to be handed over to the princess of Norway, but this didn't occur because she died of illness before she was crowned. This left Scotland with no monarch, and the country plunged into civil war. Later, the Bruces who he had supported, won the crown.
I also have the lineage of a french king of the middle ages, (can't remember the name right now) and from my mother side yet another Norwegian king. I am further more, descended from the Ynglinge family of Sweden, which were the direct descendants of Odin. (It is only the later generations who had fallen into worshipping Odin and the other royals of the age like gods.)
From Odin it goes further back, over 3200 years ago, and further, but I will avoid confusing you with history you don't know.

You say you are an american by birthright? What right is it to live in misery and ungodlyness like you do in america? If you had any sense, you would separate yourself from america, because it is doomed.

You think we would miss the USA and England? You don't know much about the world, but that is only partly your fault, since the american school system does not teach anyone anything other than how to be a good slave. but as they say, the devil is in the details, so partly responsible, will get you to exactly the same place as the people who put you there, because you have closed your eyes to your fellow men and hardened your heart against God and closed your mind to Him.
Without america, we would have France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Scotland, Ireland, Finland, Germany, Italy, all of these and more, so don't try to tell people that freedom and peace would be lost if your unholy countrys were to disappear. The instigators of war have always been and will always be England, and lately the USA. When there has been peace for a long time, you plot how to destabilize and create wars, to take whatever is left over. Don't you dare talk about peace! The only freedom you are protecting, is the freedom to do evil!
You americans can't take worldly words into your mouths, but you can take the LORDS name in vain as much as you wish! THAT is TRUE sacralidge! It would be better for you if you named all the filth in the world in every breath, than say the Lords name one time in vain, or any of the variations you have invented! The Lord knows of whom it is you speak, and it angers him!

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 05:59 PM
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ENOUGH. I am a third cousin of Guy of Guisborn, the Sultan of Australia and the Imam of Canmore(that one was for the Canucks). We are here to discuss the topic, not each other. Let's continue on with it please. Does anyone remember what it is? Look up to the top, it will tell you.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:02 PM
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Look how many countries you listed that would no longer exist today, or would be living under tyranny, Communism, Naziism, Fascism, etc., were it not for the United States. I suppose you believe that England was responsible for Hitler and Stalin as well? Please, spare us your lecture. It doesn't matter who you're related to. That doesn't make you any better than anyone else, or anymore knowledgeable when it comes to history, politics, international relations, etc.

And please don't speak about an American school system of which you've never in your life been a part of. The American school system is just fine. I'm a product of it. You get out of it as much as you wish to take. It's the American parents that are the problem, not the schools. It's embarrassing to see statistics about American children not knowing the location on a map of countries like Iraq, Indonesia, or even American states like New York and Ohio. These things are taught in the American public school system. But until such a time as we develop brain washing, our teachers cannot force us to study and remember these things beyond "test time." I was taught these things just as everyone else, except I chose to remember them as I have an interest that extends well beyond our borders.

As for the subject at hand... Like many have already said in this thread, this is old news. We expected this all along. And isn't it familiar? I believe Saddam made the same threats in the past, and actually followed up on them via Scud Missile attacks. I'm willing to bet that Israel wants Iran to attack them. Israel, in my opinion, has a superior military in terms of technology. They also have nuclear weapons. Israel is just waiting for an excuse to unleash it on Iran. An Iranian attack will give them just the excuse they're waiting for.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
ENOUGH. I am a third cousin of Guy of Guisborn, the Sultan of Australia and the Imam of Canmore(that one was for the Canucks). We are here to discuss the topic, not each other. Let's continue on with it please. Does anyone remember what it is? Look up to the top, it will tell you.



The guy who posted right beneath you, is now invisible to me.

Good and Evil runs more in the blood than anything alse! So does INTELLIGENCE!
It DOES make me better than other people, because I have been bred to take responsibility, unlike YOU!



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Christian IX
Good and Evil runs more in the blood than anything alse! So does INTELLIGENCE!
It DOES make me better than other people, because I have been bred to take responsibility, unlike YOU!



How Christian of you.


Anyways, you may have been bred to take responsibility but I HAVE a responsibility, as a member of the staff of ATSNN, to keep threads clean and on topic. This will happen or Red Flags will fly. M'kay?

NOW, back to the topic.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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has anyone noticed that most of the people named Christian aren't. huh?

The fact that this thread has gone to hell between passionate individuals only shows to illustrate how serious of a situation we are in right now.



[edit on 3-5-2006 by Low Orbit]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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I will call my both children Muslim and Zionist and see if they love eachothers


It will be a good experience... And something else... I have a guy in my school name Israël and he's like the real Israël, he's a trouble maker and always starting fight with people who didn't ask to. They should change their name, maybe they wouldn't be bad as they are right now



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Christian IX

Good and Evil runs more in the blood than anything alse! So does INTELLIGENCE!
It DOES make me better than other people, because I have been bred to take responsibility, unlike YOU!



Oh that's FUNNY...


How do you explain me then mate?


Springer...



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
I will call my both children Muslim and Zionist and see if they love eachothers


It will be a good experience... And something else... I have a guy in my school name Israël and he's like the real Israël, he's a trouble maker and always starting fight with people who didn't ask to. They should change their name, maybe they wouldn't be bad as they are right now


What country are you from? That is great that there are schools there!


Hopefully it teaches you about mathmatics and science not only the Koran.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Low Orbit

Originally posted by Russian soldier
It sure seems like this is escalating into war.
Why are some of you talking about Russia becoming a part of this? Russia has its own problems to take care of.


Yes it does, however Putin has been tearing apart the progress of previous Russian/American Leaders brought together, and why?

Why does Russia have the same view point as China on this issue. Why do both refuse to sanctions, supplies, and troops?

Everyone knows when you spread youself too thin then the wolves come in!(your enemy) We don't want to leave our backdoor open to a potential Communist Attack upon attacking Iran.

The problem with Russia is that from the outside looking in they(Russia) seem to be making us(the U.S) their problem again.

Allies will work together on an issue even if they don't see eye to eye Enemies will tell you they are working on the issue but secretly plot against you.

Thats just my honest conservative opinion, what do you think of it?



I really don't know. I HAVE known that Russia decieves America, but I don't know how far its going to go. I really don't know. Time will tell, in this case very soon as I see war on the horizon.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
Look how many countries you listed that would no longer exist today, or would be living under tyranny, Communism, Naziism, Fascism, etc., were it not for the United States. I suppose you believe that England was responsible for Hitler and Stalin as well? Please, spare us your lecture. It doesn't matter who you're related to. That doesn't make you any better than anyone else, or anymore knowledgeable when it comes to history, politics, international relations, etc.

no but our "genius" plan after world war one was responsible for hitler. Poorly handled plan made the people desperate, then hitler came along. He promised them everything, everything that we took away because of an unfair treaty that made them pay for EVERYTHING.



And please don't speak about an American school system of which you've never in your life been a part of. The American school system is just fine. I'm a product of it. You get out of it as much as you wish to take. It's the American parents that are the problem, not the schools. It's embarrassing to see statistics about American children not knowing the location on a map of countries like Iraq, Indonesia, or even American states like New York and Ohio. These things are taught in the American public school system. But until such a time as we develop brain washing, our teachers cannot force us to study and remember these things beyond "test time." I was taught these things just as everyone else, except I chose to remember them as I have an interest that extends well beyond our borders.


yes so am i, and i disagree. everything i learned was out of a library, the school never taught me a thing. The teachers didnt care to go in depth into anything, nor knew anything about the topics. they would literally read out of a book, and any questions that go deeper they didnt know. why hell i can read a book, i dont need a teacher for that. But you are right, alot of kids dont bother to pay attention, they dont see the point. These teacher dont care, i had one teacher that told us a book page for class, a book page for HW and that was it. We either did the work or we failed, there wasnt any teaching at all.



As for the subject at hand... Like many have already said in this thread, this is old news. We expected this all along. And isn't it familiar? I believe Saddam made the same threats in the past, and actually followed up on them via Scud Missile attacks. I'm willing to bet that Israel wants Iran to attack them. Israel, in my opinion, has a superior military in terms of technology. They also have nuclear weapons. Israel is just waiting for an excuse to unleash it on Iran. An Iranian attack will give them just the excuse they're waiting for.


agreed. completely and fully agreed. Israel is waiting for a reason to nuke every muslim/arab country out there. They are there now and arent going to leave even if they have to nuke everything. thats why i believe they shouldnt have nukes but now they have them and theres no way they are going to get rid of them. personally i think there is no stopping this, its not if its when.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Wow. So much of this thread consists of people arguing about who would win a war when it happens; there's this strange sense of competition between people to be correct about what war would entail. Does no-one think this is all missing the point a bit? If-as so many people profess(often dubiously)-we want peace throughout our planet, then a serious re-think is in order. It's peculiar, war (and international relations generally) are considered and confirmed by a small minority of people; we are born into a country and suddenly our views are REPRESENTED. In reality, the majority of this planet's people's advocate peace and understanding;governments however do not-by way of economic and sociological interplay- and it us that suffer. Wars are won at the expense of civilians, and it is certainly true that propagande desentizes people from this fact. America is undeniably a hippocrite-'I can have nuclear weapons, but you can't' echoes the sentiment of a playground bully. And of course, Iran is undeniably an advocate of terrorism. But how can a 'war on terror' be fought: terror is a metaphysical emotion, and it is a the result of a lack of understanding, equality and LOVE. If you ask me, it's about time we ALL signed a petition for ALL countries to give up nuclear weapons; for as long as there that looming threat there is mistrust; as long as there is mistrust there is fear. And as long as there is fear there is a 'war on terror'.

We all fight a war on terror my friends, but it is won on the battlefield of the human heart; not by the blood of the 'enemy' civilian.



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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Wouldn't Israël be able to do again a preventive strike on Iran as they did on Irak and against Egypt, Syria and Jordan on June 5 2006, 39 years after the begininng of the six days war(and for those 666 belivers?)?

And guess what, June 5 1967 was a monday and June 5 2006 is a monday! Yeah!

And Low Orbit, I'm a canadian white male atheist and i'm going to university.

And also Israël didn't applied yet the resolution 242 from the ONU council...

Also one of the main reason why Egypt, Jordan and Syria were defeated in the war was because their military was crap... How is the egyptian, jordanian and syrian military now?

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Vitchilo]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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Israel took out 4 countries in 6 days... they can handle themselves



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 09:53 PM
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Seriously, how would YOU handle the discussions between Iran and UN??

Consider those imperatives:

-Israël and US imperialism is a threat to Iranian security.
-Iran need nuclear technology for nuclear powerplants.
-Iran need to enrich some uranium on their own soil as they won't be relying on another country.
-US don't want any compromise on enrichssment.


So with all those things to respect, how would you handle the crisis?

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Vitchilo]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Israël and US imperialism is a threat to Iranian security.

How? Isreal doesn't have the ability to cross over iraq and invade and occupy iran, and the US is already involved in a messy war on several fronts, what does hte US gain by occupying iran? Who kidnapped who's citizens? Who's supreme leader is an ayatollah? Who's calling who the underling of "the Great Satan"????


-Iran need nuclear technology for nuclear powerplants.

And they can have that, so long as they allow complete access to internationalist inspection organizations AND get a green light from those same organizations. They can have Nuke power, they CAN NOT, per their own agreement, have a sovereign and independant nuke program, nor can they EVER have nuke weapons.

So with all those things to respect, how would you handle the crisis?

Anyone in a position of power should be asking themselves, WHY would Iran be risking complete and utter destruction,over a civilian nuke power programme? Why, if they are so frightened of US agression, would they be HANDING the US the justification for invasion????



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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How? Isreal doesn't have the ability to cross over iraq and invade and occupy iran, and the US is already involved in a messy war on several fronts, what does hte US gain by occupying iran? Who kidnapped who's citizens? Who's supreme leader is an ayatollah? Who's calling who the underling of "the Great Satan"????


Sorry but as simple as it seems, an attack against Iran is considered as a security breach. I didn't say they fear of being invaded, they fear of being annihilated or bombed. And the US if they do invade, will only invade a small part, the province where 90% of the oil is. Stop with the hostage taking, it's lame. Who's president is crazy and dumb and breaked over 700 laws? Who's calling for war on muslim, also know as war on terror?


And they can have that, so long as they allow complete access to internationalist inspection organizations AND get a green light from those same organizations. They can have Nuke power, they CAN NOT, per their own agreement, have a sovereign and independant nuke program, nor can they EVER have nuke weapons.

What they did since 2 years? Which countries refuses the UN to inspect their nuclear installations? (US, Israël, Pakistan) Who's the only country to use nuke? (US) When UN said Iran had a nuclear weapons program? Who have their own sovereign and independant nuke program? (US, Israël, Pakistan...)


Anyone in a position of power should be asking themselves, WHY would Iran be risking complete and utter destruction,over a civilian nuke power programme? Why, if they are so frightened of US agression, would they be HANDING the US the justification for invasion????

1- Because it's their fundamental right. 2- Because it's US and their zionist lobby that are pushing to confrontation 3- Why believe the US administration, this time, since they lied so many times? 4- Why not let the UN see if there really is a nuke program?

Also, who took away rights from his own citizens? Who already invaded 2 countries in 6 years and is about to attack a third one? Who use torture? Who sponsor dictatorship? Who help the opium industry? Who is bombing civilians? Who is censoring his medias? Who's using chemical weapons and depleted uranium on civilians? Who have secret prisons? Anything else?

And why not ask US and Israël to show ALL their secret underground facilities? To show all their nukes, all their installations?

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Vitchilo]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
1- Because it's their fundamental right.

Of course they have a fundamental right, because they are a signatory member of the NPT. That, then, would mean that as long as they have that fundamental right under the NPT, that they ALSO should allow the IAEA to verify each and every nuclear site, including those underground, which of yet, Iran has not been willing to allow or grant such access to the IAEA. Furthermore, that fundamental right comes with binding regulations, etc., and as long as Iran is a signatory of the NPT, they are bound by such.




2- Because it's US and their zionist lobby that are pushing to confrontation

The EU spent two years in talks with Iran over their "peaceful intent" nuclear program, as such, the EU was booted to the curb by the Iranians. The EU then turned to the US. As such, in that "pushing to confrontation" equation, you need to add France and the UK with that US and "Zionist" mention, k?





3- Why believe the US administration, this time, since they lied so many times?

Why believe a fanatical Iranian President and a Mullah run government when they assert that they are only seeking nuclear energy for peaceful purposes when indications suggest otherwise?




4- Why not let the UN see if there really is a nuke program?

Hence the current ongoing diplomacy on this matter before the UN.
How about just get Iran to open up ALL their nuclear facilities, above ground and underground, to the IAEA inspectors and let them do their jobs? I mean geez, what does Iran have to lose if they do? Afterall, if indeed Iran's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, then they should have NO problems letting the IAEA do their jobs, huh?







seekerof

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 3 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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Of course they have a fundamental right, because they are a signatory member of the NPT. That, then, would mean that as long as they have that fundamental right under the NPT, that they ALSO should allow the IAEA to verify each and every nuclear site, including those underground, which of yet, Iran has not been willing to allow or grant such access to the IAEA. Furthermore, that fundamental right comes with binding regulations, etc., and as long as Iran is a signatory of the NPT, they are bound by such.

And they did observe all the rules and US didn't. When they saw the iraq invasion + North Korea problem solve when they had a nuke + the UN deliberatly led by the US, they knew that if they did comply to all UN inspections and all this crap, they would be bombed anyway because of the Israël lobby and US dissuation power at UN.



The EU spent two years in talks with Iran over their "peaceful intent" nuclear program, as such, the EU was booted to the curb by the Iranians. The EU then turned to the US. As such, in that "pushing to confrontation" equation, you need to add France and the UK with that US and Israel mention.

France with Iraq was against invasion because they were making money over the food for oil program. And UK is the follower of the US anyway. If Blair wouldn't be that weak politically, he would have push for sanctions as the US.



Why believe a fanatical Iranian President and a Mullah run government when they assert that they are only seeking nuclear energy for peaceful purposes when indications suggest otherwise?

Why believe a crazy guy named W Bush since he seems to believe is the god tool to annhilate the infidels or I don't know what... a guy who is member of bilderberg and bohemian grove? A government led by corporations, lead by the WAR industry?



Hence the current ongoing diplomacy on this matter before the UN.
How about just get Iran to open up ALL their nuclear facilities, above ground and underground, to the IAEA inspectors and let them do their jobs? I mean geez, what does Iran have to lose if they do? Afterall, if indeed Iran's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, then they should have NO problems letting the IAEA do their jobs, huh?

As I said earlier, why the US don't open his facilities to UN? Why Israêl doesn't open their facilities and show how many nukes US gave them?

Anyway, UN is crap. Nobody listen to it. So if the US really want to attack, they will attack. The best option would be that all countries dismantle nukes but US would never do that as Israël because they know that they would pay for all their crimes.

The american people made a big mistake TWICE in electing Bush. They will pay for it unfortunatly. Israël elected again people who are dangerous, they will pay for it. Iranian elected a leader that don't comply with US, they will pay for it. Palestinians elected a government who is view as a terrorist organisation, they already pay for it.

You don't want a war? Overthrow you're government or do something against war, make HUGE protest and take over the white house, I don't know. Regroup military that are against use of nukes, and be on the news, against the nuke of a country that only wants energy. Show Iran that the american people don't think as their leaders and when Bush will stand down and treat Iran like a REAL country, they will surely stand back. But at this point, Iran will not stand back because they know that if they do, they are cooked. Also, they know that China and Russia will support them till the attack.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Vitchilo]



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