Would a real psychic please stand up?

Sophismata, what is exactly that they are testing for. What answers are they looking to find? What is it you want to see proven? What is it you dont understand?


I have not seen anyone on here who thinks your a jerk. I personally dont understand why you are so ralled up about the subject. and, what does me being on a computer have to do with anything?

I dont understand you hostility.

Originally posted by Enkidu
But what has been found is that the effects are so small and intermittent that it's easy to dismiss them as experimental errors (although drug companies often release medicine with lower quality results).

That sounds suspicious: "we saw positive results, but they were so small they were within the error margins. But they were still trending positive..."

Actually, when you're within error margins you've shown NOTHING. This is because the difference between doing nothing at all and doing your test case will often show results that will bob randomly around the "by chance" point, just due to random chance. You show a real (to be believed) effect by exceeding the predetermined error margins and repeating that performance.

BUT, I agree with your statement about the drug companies' tests. They are notorious for massaging out the most minute effect vs placebo. If I had a CAR that only worked better than placebo by 1% and only on good days, I would trade it in and buy a Honda.

And since you psychics cannot (or will not) prove yourselves better than placebo by ANY percent, why should we not trade YOU in?

I still dont understand what they are trying to prove.

Why would anyone want to prove themselvs. It doesnt matter if you believe or dont believe. It is what it is. Why would you want to believe that energy can not leave our bodies, when science shows that it does?

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Sophismata, what is exactly that they are testing for. I personally dont understand why you are so ralled up about the subject. and, what does me being on a computer have to do with anything?

Not trying to be hostile, and my apologies to ALL reading this thread for that vibe. I am frustrated (a better word, I suppose) that things are accepted and not questioned *thoroughly*. This frustrates me no matter the claim.

And by questioning I mean applying the same standards of truth and testing to claims of the paranormal as we do to other things we rely on like science, technology (hence your computer, which I assume you'd like to actually WORK and not just seem like it's working in your "feelings" or something), and engineering.

how do you go about applying the same standards to something you can not touch? How do you figure it can be tested?

Originally posted by mrsdudara
how do you go about applying the same standards to something you can not touch? How do you figure it can be tested?

Same way Remote Viewing has been tested.

What you have to do it have them in a closed, sterile enviroment. You have to make sure theres no possible way for them to have any answers to the questions or problem thats used as a testing apparatus.

For example, have a subject hold a deck of cards of random shapes, make the psychic draw the shapes, but never see them.

The idea is to find a way to get a psychic to do a testwith out any possible way of cheating or having previous knowledge, and only by somehow using a psychic power to obtain the answers.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Same way Remote Viewing has been tested.

WolfofWar is spot on about what the testing of psychics should test for. And what have the results been thusfar on R.V.? I'm not asking about cases where a viewer threw out a bunch of info and buried in there was something about a building with a fountain, and it turns out there was (shocking, I know) a fountain near the target building. I'm asking if there have been, published in reputable journals, tests of remote viewing that gave clear evidence of its validity. An example would be a long number being reported accurately, or a VERY VERY unusual and specific location NOT in the same city as the reader, where the target is a person NOT known to the reader. Or even better the target is a SUPER obscure object that is nearly impossible to guess but easy to remember once you've "seen" it.

Has this been done? And if so, why haven't I heard about it? I read up on science discoveries (journal abstracts, etc) every day.

I lay claim to being able to see injury and pain/sufferings around people in the form of a sort of aura. My accuracy is testable. If someone needed to have this proven I could easily prove it. All I need is them to stand or sit in front of me for about five minutes.

More than a few people have asked "how" I do it? What do I see? How do I interperate what I see and the list of questions goes on.

I think if someone knew I had this affliction, wanted to test it and make a conclusion for themselves or a group I could do it and feel fine about it. It is what it is as was said before.

Sure there are skeptics who claim I'm reading body language, facial expressions or have some other knowledge of the person I'm looking at...but truth is the majority of times I've done this it's been for total strangers. People I've never seen before and never will see again.

I ahve no problem with testing of skills. When I apply for a job they ask the same of my academic standing, job knowledge and computer skill...when I was in child care I had to get a police and criminal record check...

The world is full of doubt, perhaps it's sad, but doubt exists for a reason and that reason is to be proven either fact or fiction. Once a fact - no longer a doubt.

If there is "fear" of being tested, then I'd say there's a problem with the claim. If you do not wish to be tested, don't make the claim. Simple.

I claim to also be a great cook, I have proven it and could and would for anyone asking LOL.

I claim to be great at building computers and setting up software - I do this routinely and my skill is proven - but for someone who doesn't know me...they have the right to check me out.

Paranormal ability is absolutely no different. You lay claim to it, you are fair game...there is no exception to the rules of fairness.

I'll be tested anytime on my affliction (affliction because it disrupts my life!) maybe someone could do a catscan on me...locate the source of the problem and ZAP it so it'd be gone and people wouldn't be so gross to look at

Test away I say. There can only be proof of a skill or talent or ability if they can be tested. And I fully agree that they can be scientifically charted and assessed for accuracy. They do it with remote viewing as was said before and there are many who have amazing PROVEN track records with a variety of paranormal skills.

No defensiveness is required and yes it is very frustrating for both sides.

having said I'd be willing to be tested LMAO - I do NOT want to be bombarded daily with requests to identify injury/illness or the like...I have a full time job thanks and it pays my rent. The damn aura thing does nothing but make people look distorted and often really monstrous and it serves me absolutely no purpose to have it.

If I did volunteer for testing it would be to erradicate it!! Any scientists or brain docs in my area looking for a guinea pig?

that is insane.

We see things because we need to see them. There is no need to see a deck of cards, and it is not the deck of cards we would see in the first place. It is the image in the persons mind who is holding the cards.

Besides, if someone did "pass" their test, they would still ask HOW that person came up with the answers......right? Therefore, they still would not believe. Shoot, science already explains how it can happen, and that it does.....but noooo the laws of energy applies to everything BUT this. ug, its a hopeless battle. Either you know it exists, or you are too afraid to admit it. I really have a hard time believing that someone with out a doubt in their mind does not believe it is possible.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Shoot, science already explains how it can happen, and that it does.....but noooo the laws of energy applies to everything BUT this.

If you could provide references, that would be great. I had a very good science education in college (including physics, chem, bio, neuro, etc) and I don't remember anything about psychic powers being special cases that the laws of *physics* don't apply to.

If I had to guess, I'd say you're referring to something about energy not being able to be destroyed or "everything being connected" as you'll read in some pop-sci quantum books. These general concepts cannot be willy-nilly applied outside their context any more than you can apply Van Der Waals forces to attractions between men and women. The chemists around here will get my meaning. If there are any.

I wouldnt mind being tested either.....if it was for the right reason. I wouldnt want to waste my time trying to make a bliever out of someone who is out to deface people with gifts. Like the example you gave about cooking. I'd say Im a good cook, but if someone wanted me to prove it, I wouldnt want to cook for them. Why would I waste my time if I knew, no matter what I fixed, they would say they hated it. However, if someone wanted me to show them how I cook, or wanted me to cook for them because they were excited to try my cooking then I'll cook.

If they wanted to test me to try to find out how it works, or why, I'd be ok with that.

It is not easy being able to read someone. To pick up their thoughts, and feelings. If you want to believe, and need to see it first hand, then be around someone with the gift for awhile. Sit back and watch what we have to go through in a day. I have not yet met someone who has gifts that would jump up and down saying they were psycic for popularity reasons. I have on the other hand, seen them make themselfs known (me too) for the purpose of helping others, or for support from others in the same position.

Sophismata, do you believe that our brain creates, sends, and recieves energy?

Why do you believe that the energy our brain creates has to stay inside our body?
Every thought you have is energy. Why cant pure energy travel from person to person?

(btw, yes those were the laws I was speaking of. I am not a science expert, and I an not going to pretend to be. I do have to go now though, so I will post the links later tonight or tomorow.)

Doesnt Quantum Physics basically accept and proove the concept of psychic abilities? You know, the whole "we're all tied together by energy and affect the world with our minds" stuff?

MrsDudara,

When you 'read' another person, are you aware of actually taping into the Akashic level or is it more of a subconscious link?

Also, have you seen or experienced the 'Museums' there?

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Sophismata, do you believe that our brain creates, sends, and recieves energy?

Why do you believe that the energy our brain creates has to stay inside our body?

No, it does *not* create energy. The brain's energy comes mostly from glucose, which is broken down (so to speak) to release energy cells can use. Energy is not sent between neurons either, contrary to popular belief. Rather, some sodium ions move in and out of a neuron, causing it to release chemicals at the end of the neuron which float (in liquid, slower than light) over to another neuron, thereby transmitting the signal. None of this can be twisted to mean "the brain transmits energy" in such a way that you could construe psychic powers from it.

And why do these "energies" have to stay inside the head? Because the brain is not set up like an antenna. Electro-waves do not travel out from the brain to other people. Period. If you think something ELSE does, it must be proved.

This is like thinking that because computers use electrons and electrons are capable of going through air, then the computer in the room next to me must be able to pick up on what mine is doing (in detail) even without a WIFI or physical connection.

But clearly we're not living in the same world here, folks. My little science lessons are falling on deaf ears, I fear. Feel free (as we all are) to view the world as you wish.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Doesnt Quantum Physics basically accept and proove the concept of psychic abilities? You know, the whole "we're all tied together by energy and affect the world with our minds" stuff?

No, you're thinking of that John Travolta movie "Phenomenon," which was just a kind of ad for Scientology. It didn't prove anything.

We can affect the world with our minds, though. I can conjure up an image in my mind of throwing a rock through a window, then guide my physical hand and the rock to accomplish it. Nobody at this point knows the mechanics of how any of that happens, either, and it's the most natural thing in the world. Where the idea comes from, how does the intention makes it way to action... ? Yeah, you can say it's all a matter of neurons firing and electrochemical reactions in muscles, it still doesn't answer the question of "how" it happens in the first place. How do I make the decision to make my neurons fire more? Nobody knows.

Psychic power to me is one of those things like ball lightning. You get enough sketchy reports of it to maybe think it might be worth looking into a little further.

Too bad the effects are so tiny and apparently not electromagnetic but something else. Nobody knows what. Human beings have gotten pretty good at manipulating electromagnetism (although they don't really know what THAT really is, either). But this psychic stuff will likely require some other kind of paradigm to work with. Your guess is as good as mine, though, about what it would be. That's for a bigger genius than me to figure out.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I am not going to tell him too much, because there is still a lot that he needs to figure out for himself.

I would've u2u'ed this if I could, but please tell! I understand if you can't but its omnious.......

Originally posted by NukeAmbition
I would've u2u'ed this if I could, but please tell! I understand if you can't but its omnious.......

Honey, I know it is omnious. I am so sorry you are going through this right now. But you are looking for answers you already have. You are SO sad right now. And I am so sorry. I know you want to know, but what you need to know is more important. You need to understand why. You need to realize that you have no controll over this! The best advise I can give you right now, is to stop talking. Spend a week just sitting back and watching life go by with out saying a word. Seperate yourself from the game because it is not your game to play. Instead, sit back, quietly, watch carefully, and LEARN. I REALY pray that you take my advise. You really need to find peace in this. If you dont, I am afraid you will loose yourself.

Originally posted by StarLord
MrsDudara,

When you 'read' another person, are you aware of actually taping into the Akashic level or is it more of a subconscious link?

Also, have you seen or experienced the 'Museums' there?

I have absolutly no idea what you just asked me haha. What the heck is an Akashic level?

If you mean do I understand what is going on, then yes. Do I know when it happens...yes. I have heard thoughts as they are going through someones head. Usually the more emotional the louder, more intence it is. Sometimes it catches me off guard. For instance, one day I was dancing around my kitchen cleaning away while my daughter took her nap. Thinking to my self, singing with the radio, then all of a sudden I start "thinking" the words...."why did you have to leave me....I need you" etc., and I start sobbing right there in my kitchen. I stopped and said What the heck I was just having a good day where did that come from, so I looked out back (cemetary backs up to my back yard) and there was a teenage girl laying down on her dad's grave just sobbing.

Now, I have no idea if that was an Akashic level or subconcious, but would just love it if you told me....and told me what an Akashic level was.

Sophismata, you seem to know a lot about the brain. I am not a college grad, as most can probably tell by my poor spelling. I must say that Enkidu said it all very well. I dont think anyone can explain it better than that.

I dont intend this to sound rude, so please dont take it that way. I just really hope, through the course of your studies and profession, that you dont limit yourself to what you absorb in books. The human mind and body is more complex than any explinations you will read. I am sure we will never know all the how's or why's, but I think we would come a lot closer if we opened our minds to endless possabilities we are capable of.

If you really want to know if it is "for real" or not, then try learning by osmosis - so to speak. If you put yourself around people with the "gifts" you you dont believe in, I know you would have no choice other than to believe. I can understand how difficult it is for you to believe. You seem to NEED to know the hows and whys. Everything HAS to have an answer. This is unknown territory for you because this has no answers, it just is. And that is ok. We just see things in different ways.

I wish I could make people believe. I wish I could make them see what I see, and feel what I feel. Maybe then there would be some peace and quiet on earth. I know if I could....then people wouldnt be able to hurt each other. Its kind of hard to hurt someone when you yourself feel the pain it causes.