The amount of information on the net is staggering , but how much of it is theory , crackpot madmen fantasies , and how much of it is deliberate disinformation ?

Someone give me the facts about what is really going on please. FACTS

I'm not expecting any replies to this post.

It’s not just on the Internet, it’s everywhere.

Even History is nothing more than a collection of the most popular theories.

Like Mulder was told,
Trust No One.

Try to evaluate ideas, not people and you’ll be well on your way.

The capitol of Pennsylvania is Harrisburgh. Water boils at 212 degrees F. The US landed on the Moon in 1969.

We don't live in a world based on facts any more. We live in a world based on perceptions. What else would explain smoking, drug use, plastic surgery...............etc. It is not about what is real. Reality is what we are told it should be or what we want it to be. There are people on Death Row who are innocent if we went by the facts.

Originally posted by automek
The amount of information on the net is staggering, but how much of it is theory , crackpot madmen fantasies , and how much of it is deliberate disinformation ?

Are you talking about the total amount of information on the Internet, or just the "controversial" stuff, found on forums like this one?

Assuming you mean the latter, without knowing the underlying "truth," it's impossible to determine exactly how much of it is conjecture, lies or craziness.

That being said, the exact ratio is this:

THEORY = 85%
CRACKPOT MADMAN FANTASIES = 10%
DELIBERATE DISINFORMATION = 5%

Hope this helps!

Originally posted by JIMC5499
The capitol of Pennsylvania is Harrisburgh. Water boils at 212 degrees F. The US landed on the Moon in 1969.

We don't live in a world based on facts any more. We live in a world based on perceptions. What else would explain smoking, drug use, plastic surgery...............etc. It is not about what is real. Reality is what we are told it should be or what we want it to be. There are people on Death Row who are innocent if we went by the facts.

The unofficial, but true, capital of Pennsylvania is, was, and always will be Philadelphia!



Cheese steaks baby!

FACTS about UFOS . FACTS about the council on foreign relations. FACTS about secret governments. etc............
Dont get me wrong.............i know there is something up , just like morpheous when he said to Neo " you FEEL that theres something wrong with the world....... "
I FEEL like a stage is being set , and things are moving into place.
A " normie " ( non-net , non-conspiracy normal joe schmo ) said to me the other day , " I FEEL that something big is gonna happen real soon "

I reckon some of you guys probably know more than you are letting on , and i'm not interested in theories , or smug knowledge of the truth. Give me FACTS please.

Originally posted by automek
FACTS about UFOS.

It's a fact that many people of all kinds have seen them and have some very interesting stories to tell about them. Photographs have been taken, radar tracking recordings, and stray bits of metal have been found. So far, none of the anecdotes or evidence has been good enough to prove an extraterrestrial origin.

FACTS about the council on foreign relations.

It's a fact that wealthy people, including many holding government positions, meet occasionally to plan the economic and social future of society. This has been done since Sumeria, and likely a long time before.

FACTS about secret governments.

It's a fact that governments do many things in secret. Some you might not agree with on philosophical grounds, some you might heartily endorse.

Give me FACTS please.

That's what we generally accept to be fact. Anything more is simply opinion based on personal perspective, possibly on some personal exposure to evidence that can't be reproduced.

what makes fact FACT then ? Just because you tell me that stuff doesnt make me believe it. My definition of FACT is something that cant be disputed , that is solid , foundational , irrefutable -------- anything else , an' we're just dealing with vaguaries.
Someone puts up a photo of a ufo ------ how do we know it hasnt been photo-shopped.
someone leaks info about something --- how do we know its not a government agent feeding us disinformation and leading us away from the real issue , thus creating a smokescreen ?
I need facts , otherwise i will be like a house built on the sand with no foundation , and when the storm comes , my house will inevitably fall.
I wanna know what the hell is going on . I sense it. I feel it. It perturbs me to see people more concerned about ipods , than the world being pulled over our eyes blinding us from the truth.
I see prophecies being fulfilled on a daily basis , an i wanna know who is in control. I know who is ultimately in control , but while all this is playing out , who's calling the shots ? Is it omega , or majestic 12 , or lizards ( gimmee a break lol ).
If i cant find proof here , I may as well go look somewhere is.
Dont get me wrong , im not a debunker. Im trying to put all the pieces together into something that is intelligible once ive ruled out the totally absurd and the blatant lies and disinformation.

Do your own research. You can't expect to start screaming like a lunatic, demanding that people give you something that you'll never trust unless you find out for yourself. Go to the library or something... read ATS threads... but sitting there and telling other people to spoon-feed you stuff that you're not going to believe anyway is pointless and quite lazy.

The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.....Oscar Wilde.

Facts are in short supply in many walks of life from a witness statement of a car collision to the disinformation from politicians, journalists and the scientific community.
Who can we trust to tell us the truth? Sometimes what is not divulged in a statement or coversation, public announcement or newspaper alters our perception of the event(s) whether it was intended or not we cannot surely know.

My father always told me the only facts printed in newspapers are the date and the price. The www. is another medium altogether. The truth is what we percieve it to be, look at any of these forums and there is boundless evidence of that.

Originally posted by firebat
Do your own research. You can't expect to start screaming like a lunatic, demanding that people give you something that you'll never trust unless you find out for yourself. Go to the library or something... read ATS threads... but sitting there and telling other people to spoon-feed you stuff that you're not going to believe anyway is pointless and quite lazy.

Firebat , wind your neck in !!
No-one is screaming like a lunatic.
I started a deliberately probing thread , designed to make people think " What is fact ? "
This site claims to give me above top secret information. How do i know to trust it ? how do you know to trust it ?
You clearly did not understand the intention of the post at all , so simmer down.

Originally posted by automek
What makes fact FACT then?

Ah, there's the rub.

Everything we sense and think we understand is a distortion. It's distorted by our own limited senses. Even "existence" is only felt by us seconds after it really happens, because it takes time for our senses and our brains to process the information we receive. On a sub-atomic level, the things we think are solid and real are made more of nothing than actual "stuff," and because of the Uncertainty Principle, we can only guess about where that stuff even is.

If you've ever been unconscious, or on drugs, or really sick, you know that our senses can be easily fooled and messed up. So if we can't trust our own senses, then we really can't trust anything anybody tells us they saw or experienced, can we? What makes their perceptions better than our own? Nothing.

As for our "beliefs," we usually learn them from others we trust when we are children. But all they are are subjective opinions transmitted to us by people who don't know any better, themselves, sometimes passed off as "fact," but with little or nothing to support them. And just because they're written down in a Bible or something doesn't make them any more factual.

Fact is a social agreement. A construct of reality we agree on by consensus. We generally label FACTS as things that: 1) other people see/understand and describe that roughly match what we see/understand, and 2) things that repeat in roughly the same way so we can sort of predict what might happen when we encounter them at different times. That's about it. If something doesn't meet those two simple requirements, we can't really call them "facts."

Majority doesn't always necessarily rule on this stuff. Most people think atoms look like little solar systems with a sun and planets in orbit. They're wrong. Most people believe in some kind of afterlife or survival of the spirit after death, or they believe in angels and demons and ghosts. They're wrong.

We can try to prove facts by using evidence and logic, but that can also be so paradoxical and horribly flawed that it's essentially useless.

The FACT is that we -- as in YOU and ME and EVERYBODY ELSE -- don't know jack squat about anything, whether it's comets or Jesus or who shot JFK or whether or not fluoride is killing us all, or ANYTHING! It's all just a lot of poor observations and misunderstandings, patched together and based on incomplete information and lousy reasoning.

Does that make you feel better?


[edit on 1-5-2006 by Enkidu]

In view of that openintel link , its obvious that no-one should be trusted , and in this whole conspiracy thing , there are no guarantees of robust information

I agree with everything Enkidu says about the unreliability of perception and the even greater unreliability of secondhand report. These days, even Descartes' cogito, ergo sum doesn't cut any ice, now that consciousness and free will are commonly treated as illusive side-effects of autonomous organic function. So, yes indeed, there is no such thing as an unambiguously verifiable fact.

In spite of this, we continue to behave as if certain 'facts' are true. From these facts, we've built a roughly consensual picture of reality and lo, it works. Within this construct, matter, energy and spacetime behave in predictable, reproducible ways. For example, (distilled) water can be relied upon to boil at 212 degrees Fahrenheit (at sea level on planet Earth). People, oddly enough, seem to behave in predictable ways too, though they are such complex systems that prediction can be quite difficult at times, though not impossible.

It would seem that there are some facts we can rely on, after all. You may not be able to put your finger on that pesky electron without deflecting it, yet things play out as we expect them to nevertheless; predictable effects follow from specific causes. True, our perceptions are flawed or skewed and others' accounts of reality are worse, yet we make constant and productive use of both. Something -- however erroneous, however illusory -- is evidently working.

So automek (isn't that from one of Dan Simmons' books?), we can't give you any facts, but perhaps someone can offer you an insight into the truth.

Which is that things are pretty much as they seem to be, give or take a bit of wiggle room. However much of a dupe you think it makes you, it's best to begin with that premise and stick with it until you've got near-overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Thoughts of conspiracy should be forced on you by circumstances, not actively cultivated. Otherwise you may as well get y'self measured for the tin hat right away.

Thoughts of conspiracy should be forced on you by circumstances, not actively cultivated.

Which raises the question: what are we all doing on this site anyway?

I am on this site because I can't sleep, but I doubt that is what you meant.
As for the tin hat, I wear a size 9 3/4 (that's 3 feet of reynolds wrap for those of you who might not know) but I refuse to wear it any more. I am hoping that the beings from other planets really do access my brain, but that is for another thread.

As for fact, Ego cogito ergo sum. I think, so I know that I exist. It is a fact that my mind is here. We know that we are at least the res cogitans, the thinking things. That is, I presume, the reason why we are here at this site. To add to the thoughts we have, some new and possibly enlightening other thoughts. Whether or not they too prove to be facts we can only tell for ourselves by thinking them through - all the while asking, "Could this be anything other than what it appears?" If there exists any possibility that an object or idea could be other than what it seems, it cannot be relied upon as absolute fact. Fact must be able to endure questioning thought. You must think.

I don't believe that anyone can do this for you. Certainly no one can do it for me. I can be guided, but unless I think I will be misled. Either every silliness will appear as fact, or no information will appear factual.

My opinion is, therefore, that fact is something that I can hold in my mind that stands up in the face of doubt, withstands all questions, and no matter how I think of it, I cannot think of it as being other than what it is.

In short, almost everything on this site (and all others for that matter) is not fact.
Nevermind, maybe I should go back to wearing my tin hat.