Originally posted by Liberal1984
The trade only association "failed" how did it fail? I had no idea it failed, in fact I think its still quite a success.
- Lib, you wanted to discuss a European trade only association.
There was one, post war.
The UK was a member of it.
It was called EFTA.
The UK's membership of it did nothing to halt the serious and sharp decline in British trade post war (which was the reason for the UK being so
desperate for joining the EEC/EU throughout the late 1950's and into the whole of the 1960's).
Therefore from the British point of view it failed, and failed us utterly.
'We' then left and joined, quite literally, as quickly as we could, the EEC/EU.
Really Sminkeypinky I think your on very doggy ground when you pretend it failed. Because what really happened was that it was expanded
from a trade only association into a political one.
- Er, no.
There is no "pretence" and the dodgy ground is all yours.
You could have looked into the history EFTA - as well as the whole story of Briton's trading position post war following the loss of Empire and why
it was that the UK ended up so desperate to join the EEC/EU - but it would appear you have not or can't be bothered.
You seem to be under the mistaken notion that EFTA somehow changed into and became the EEC/EU.
It did not.
They are/were quite different 'bodies'.
Long after the UK left it EFTA morphed into a position where today it equates to little more than an associate membership of the EEC/EU (ie having no
say whatsoever in the EU's decision making processes but having to follow each decision if they want to continue to trade) - not exactly the "quite
a success" you have claimed and it most certainy did not become the "political" association as you have claimed.
As for the rest?
If you want to go off on your usual scatter gun series of complaint about several dozen other unconnected items then that's up to you.
it is obvious that you know little or nothing about the UK's post war trading circumstances, why the 'Commonwealth' was no longer
sufficient to sustain British trade, the urgent reasons for the UK's joining these unions/associations/communities in the first place nor why we left
EFTA and subsequently joined and have stuck with the EEC/EU.
BTW perhaps you don't know this either but the fundamental problem the UK has with the ECHR (not actually a piece of EU legislation at all) is that -
as usual with most if not all things to do with 'Europe' - 'we' were so late with it, in this case late in incorporating it into British law.
Had the UK adopted it long ago - which as a founding member, designer and author of the 'European Convention' we could and ought to have done (the
UK was one of the first to ratify the convention, we simply dragged our heels about incorporating it into British law) - the teething problems would
have been over and done with long ago and so much more of our law woul be 'in step' with it.
But anyhoo, I doubt you are really that interested in the true history of what happened and why and will continue to prefer instead to make general
and vague complaints about the UK's position within the EU and concentrate only on the the problems that sometimes come with the concept of 'pooled
sovereignty' (despite all members being a minority voice - with full voting rights - within it).
....and if you are really going to quote our trashiest tabloid Murdock's 'The Sun' on a subject as deep and complex as the ECHR then be prepared to
have that 'source' treated as somewhat less than serious.
I'm not intending to be condescending about this but citing a Sun article is about as serious as referring to an article by Homer Simpson on the
merits or difficulties of, say, 'Habeas corpus' in the era of the legal entity that are our modern corporations?!
Anyhoo, OK, have it your way.
It's all a plot, the other 24 countries have all gotten together ganged up and they are all out to get you......as well as those in all
parties and in all positions of power and influence in the UK apparantly 'selling you out'.
Land of hope and glory!
There, feel vindicated & happy now?
PS anytime you care to feel free to let us all know just why you think that the benefits of European cooperation, common standards and values should
be restricted to apply to (big) business, (big) money and cross-border commerce alone?
[edit on 1-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]