Nothing will happen in 2012 except...

Honestly, if you're going to talk astrology, you really might do more than just eyeball the planetary positions and make grand and sweeping mystical remarks about them.

I'm a former professional astrologer. Used to do charts when I was in college in the late 70's, and have done them for many years. And as we all know when we study astrology for a long time, the movement of one planet into one sign modifies its meaning as it relates to other objects in the sky and modifies the aspects of the angles.

Pluto doesn't rule the entire universe. The events you mention are complex ones, and the pattern doesn't lie in vast and sweeping statements about "the moon was in the 7th house and Jupiter aligned with Mars" kind of stuff. Most of us learned this lesson during the Great Conjunctions of the 1980's, but apparently the memo didn't get out as much as it should.

* there is no such thing as a birth sign for the Earth. Therefore, planetary progressions do not apply to the Earth as a whole (that's just Bad Astrology. They don't tell you this in the fluffy mystical books, though. This is something you learn after years of study.)
* There *ARE* birth signs for nations. Each one has a different one, therefore each change in relationships of the planets will affect nations differently. To wander around and prophecy wholesale changes based on a planet moving from one sign to another is something that only the very unknowledgeable will do. Saturn moving from Capricorn to Aquarius has a very different impact in the chart of the US than it does for the chart of Cuba.

There's a lot of EXTREMELY stupid astrological sites out there on 2012. The number that actually bring up charts and compare them with the siderial and progressed charts of various nations is very small, and these are often overlooked. It's the inane fluff (which you seem to have found) that run around and flap because a planet changes signs that's getting all the press.

We went through this in the 1970's with the "Age of Aquarius" and we went through it in the 1980's with the Planetary Alignment and all that.

If you have a point to make, then show us your charts, your progressed charts, and the relationships specific to birth charts of nations and we'll take a look at the aspects and signs. I'll be happy to discuss the aspects and relationships and chart comparisons with you.

If you're just preaching from having discovered the path of Pluto, then this is the wrong place for that (it's not scientific nor is it actually based in real astrology. That's more "sun sign astrology" which is the sort of fluff that's found in the newspaper. That kind of discussion is better suited for BTS.)



(I will discuss it, but no, I'm not going to teach this stuff since it's complicated and takes awhile and I'm busy. You can learn it for yourself with any number of good books and months of study. I've taught this, but it's not a "15 minutes and you're done" sort of thing.)

Alright, whatever you say. You're not going to answer any of my questions or comment on any of the errors I pointed out.

As Byrd suggested, take your "astrology" to BTS, as it has nothing to do with this. Good luck denying ignorance.

My initial post on this thread was about how a 3 thousand year old culture could not have had any concept of their place in our solar system...

Byrd you said they tracked Venus right?? Quite possible that they were able to see Venus as we all know Venus is visible to the naked eye.... but...

What do you think the Mayans conceived Venus to be?

I would be willing to stake a million pounds that the Mayans had no concept of 4 dimensional movements within our galaxy.

I am sure that the Mayans measured the changes in the sky and over generations were able to come up with their masterpiece a clock or a calendar.

However the Mayan culture has been completely open to interpretation. An example would be the link of the alignment which has been taken from a Mayan drawing of the tree of life which is completely open to interpretation.

(Byrd do you have link or pic of the tree of life?

The mystery of why the long count ends at 2012 has been made into something it simply is not.

My point is that if you look hard enough into space at any point in time in any direction there will be some alignment of some sort. This is the very way the universe works.

Does that then mean that every moment there is a special event??? (I personally believe that every moment is special but that’s something different all together)

Believing that 2012 has some special meaning and is a special event in my mind is a complete stretch and as bad as thinking that a skip count in the bible has some hidden meanings (Bible code).

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of doom Sayers that will want to say that some bad will happen. I say to these people, Be careful, people have a knack of making the things they think of come true....

NeoN HaZe.


[edit on 2-5-2006 by Neon Haze]

What's going to happen is that our solar system (Sun specifically) will be aligned on the galactic plane (GP).

Some people say a pole shift will happen, some say we go throught a consiousness transition, some say planel x etc etc...

The Mayans talk about the great rift because when we are aligned on the GP, the great rift is also very close aligned along the same path (not 100% though apparently).

Some say that as our solar system passes THRU the GP then things are flipped around etc and, basically, you have to hang on..much like the direction of tornado's in the southern/nothern hemisphere...what does happen when a tornado goes from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemishphere? That's what will happen - we will be going from one hemishphere of the galaxy to the other hemisphere (north/south or south/north...relative to?).

Anyhow, the passing thru the GP happens every 13000 years in a 26000 year cycle. The scientists say our solar system rotates around the galactic centre in a "sinusoidal" pattern and that our solar system "dips" through the GP based on this sinusoidal pattern every 13000 years but this is BS - electrons rotate around protons/neutrons, moon around earth, earth around sun and the sun around another star/sun/whatever every 26000 years and that's where the Mayans get the 26000 year cycle from...so, every 13000 years odd, our solar system passes thru the GP...much like the earth passes thru the Ecliptic plane of the sun twice every year.

I'm in oz and the Aboriginals are thousands of years old so when it comes close to that date, I'm heading inland

All I can say is hang on

Cheers

J

[edit on 2-5-2006 by jumpspace]

Originally posted by Neon Haze
Byrd you said they tracked Venus right?? Quite possible that they were able to see Venus as we all know Venus is visible to the naked eye.... but...

What do you think the Mayans conceived Venus to be?

Complex question. They called it "Xux Ex" -- "Wasp star"; a dangerous thing:
www.astro.rug.nl...

...but they also worshipped it as the morning star and the evening star. Did they know that it was the same planet? Yes, apparently so. There's some evidence that some of them observed at least one transit of Venus across the sun and that they did make daytime observations of Venus (probably through obsidian.)

Venus ruled much of what happened in their society. We see a lot of evidence that events such as wars and human sacrifices were timed for certain periods that related to where Jupiter and Venus were in the sky:
lalaland.msu.edu...

Their society was complex and their thoughts/religion were not like Western ideas:
www.milligan.edu...&%20pdf%20files/maya.pdf

I would be willing to stake a million pounds that the Mayans had no concept of 4 dimensional movements within our galaxy.

Explain what you mean by "4 dimensional" and if you are not intending for the 4th dimension to be time, then explain what you mean and how this movement has been observed and how we can all observe it for ourselves, please.

However the Mayan culture has been completely open to interpretation. An example would be the link of the alignment which has been taken from a Mayan drawing of the tree of life which is completely open to interpretation.

Only by nonscholars. The scholars and ethnographers who have been working with the living Mayan people actually know a LOT about the earlier Mayans. But they've kind of been outshouted by people who looked at a piece of Mayan sculpture, came up with an interpretation, and ran off to sell books and dramas.

(Byrd do you have link or pic of the tree of life?

Not offhand, but I sort of vaguely remember it.

The mystery of why the long count ends at 2012 has been made into something it simply is not.

My point is that if you look hard enough into space at any point in time in any direction there will be some alignment of some sort. This is the very way the universe works.

Does that then mean that every moment there is a special event??? (I personally believe that every moment is special but that’s something different all together)

Believing that 2012 has some special meaning and is a special event in my mind is a complete stretch and as bad as thinking that a skip count in the bible has some hidden meanings (Bible code).

Well said!

looks like you guy's r real interested in the facts,..
old byrd brain picks up on an interstellar dust cloud to the degree,...

he assumes to have studied or venerated the fluffy art of astrology,..
oh jees,.. praise and worship,...

2160 years guys,.. get it,... each epoch in the prec of equin,..

CAN'T you see our dependance forming on the new AQUARIAN style god in the last 20yrs,..

like eye's guy's ,.. OPEN,...

i actually have better things to do than hang in such a chicken pen with you lot,..
you're actually breeding that coup mentality here,.. get it,..

come to Africa,..
get some REAL freedom,..

oh yeah,.. you guy's are that ,.. what's the yak,...
sing it come on guys,..

"i will pay for freedom through someones back pocket,..
i will be a patriot and act like im freeeeee,..."

yoodle yoodle, hooo haaaa,...

SORRY FOR YOU,...
your government is about to implement MARTIAL LAW,..

hope your house is cozy,...
dork,...


as i say,.. come get a taste of real freedom,..
or i suggest opiate based pharmaceuticals,..

wait though it actually already sounds like you are pharma druggies,...
sorry guys,.. this is mainly intended for old byrd brain,...
SUPER moderator,..

he is super ain't he guys,..

YEAH(applause),.. there we go,..

see Byrd,.. they do like you,.. it's just your edge you know,..
that beeeeeek of yours,..

like tacticle wmd device,...
nice,...



stressed out,...
looser,...
in a cage,...

wait, sorry,..
mood: WHIMP SICAL

or is that: WHIP ME SIG HEIL,...

yeah,.. like like that ey,.. BYRD man,..

why don't you go check out your wingspan or somein,... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh,..

darn it,.. lost the byrd dudes,..
who's gonna be our

SUPER moderator now,...

no one to hen peck us,...

"loosers in cages,.. " may that echo BYRD brain,..

at a .2mm brain slot,...
at 333m/s that should echo pretty fast ol Tweetie,..

like, start a club or a band,...
you can be the filler,...

like putty you know,...
filler in,...

Originally posted by Byrd
Shall I?

First of all, about Pleiades. Did you know that according to us "new agers" Earth IS part of Pleiades. That renders your whole post invalid. The star system Barba is talking about is called Alcyone, you got that right. Where is it? Somewhere not too far i guess. That is where channelled info comes from. It is the main star system and it is always in Photon Band. Always. Yes it has planets i presume.

Now, Photon Band. Tell me again, what Egypt and Sumeria has to do with it? From your posts i didn't quite get what are you exactly implying?

WHat exactly do you mean by "What the Maya MEANT by this is that the gap in the Milky Way will have shifted through the sky until it is rising at dawn. "

What "gap" are you talking about, Gap the clothes retailer? Byrd, after i make this post i will go upstairs and reach for my copy of Pleiade Agenda and scan for your pleasure the so called photon band.

"Oh yes -- the "gates' aren't gates."
WHAT GATES BYRD????? Is that a new name for Gap???





[edit on 3-5-2006 by Freeman]

Right
*Crackles back from going all the way upstairs and back*



As you can see theres a number of these photon bands.

Just becuase you can't see it dones't mean it's not there.

For one I can feel it. Are you familiar with 9 Dimensional analogy? Photon Band is the 7th dimension on this scale. Photon band is a DIMENSION of perception! It is subtle tho, which means you Byrd can't openly notice. But it's there ... ohhh yeah

Originally posted by Byrd

Explain what you mean by "4 dimensional" and if you are not intending for the 4th dimension to be time, then explain what you mean and how this movement has been observed and how we can all observe it for ourselves, please.

Well I won't go on too much about m-theory and the multi space dimensions and time here

Actually I meant 4 dimensional as in 3 spatial and 1 time. I would be willing to wager that the Mayans could not have had the knowledge of where we are located within the galaxy or how the galaxy moves.

I think the Mayans observations of the movements in the skies were only that observations of movement.

What ever the Mayans beliefs were about, why or what the stars were, I find it very very difficult to fathom how a 3000 year old culture could have any understanding of their place in the greater scheme of things.

To say that a culture so ancient could have had such great knowledge is admitting that there was a great wealth of knowledge in distant past history that was somehow lost.

If that is true then it surely would have had to have been the greatest loss of all.... for if this knowledge was not lost then surely we would now be far more advanced than we are currently....

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

Originally posted by Freeman
The star system Barba is talking about is called Alcyone, you got that right. Where is it? Somewhere not too far i guess. That is where channelled info comes from. It is the main star system and it is always in Photon Band. Always. Yes it has planets i presume.

Haven't you *ever* bothered to look up *any* of the things?

Haven't you ever looked at the sky and seen the Pleiades?

Do you know where Alcyone is; how big it is, how far away it is? (that's a serious question)

Do you know what a photon is? (that's a serious question)

Byrd, after i make this post i will go upstairs and reach for my copy of Pleiade Agenda and scan for your pleasure the so called photon band.

A drawing of something doesn't mean that thing exists. I can draw lots of things that don't exist (like the flying spaghetti monster.)

The Bible says you should test prophets before believing them. This one fails to get even the basic facts right.

Test them? Why test it ................ WHEN I CAN SENSE IT!?

Originally posted by Neon Haze

Originally posted by Byrd

Explain what you mean by "4 dimensional" and if you are not intending for the 4th dimension to be time, then explain what you mean and how this movement has been observed and how we can all observe it for ourselves, please.

Well I won't go on too much about m-theory and the multi space dimensions and time here

Actually I meant 4 dimensional as in 3 spatial and 1 time. I would be willing to wager that the Mayans could not have had the knowledge of where we are located within the galaxy or how the galaxy moves.

Ah! Good thing I asked. You are correct -- they had no idea. They believed the Earth was a square blanket shape that rode on the back of an alligator.

What ever the Mayans beliefs were about, why or what the stars were, I find it very very difficult to fathom how a 3000 year old culture could have any understanding of their place in the greater scheme of things.

For one thing, they didn't believe there were any continents other than their own.

It was an interesting culture, and it's interesting to speculate if they would have progressed any further (technologically speaking) if their civilization hadn't been conquered. Although they were on the verge of becoming a bronze age society, there were certain social aspects that I think might have held them back.

Originally posted by Freeman
Test them? Why test it ................ WHEN I CAN SENSE IT!?

Because your senses lie and are inaccurate. Because someone else's "senses" may be giving them the wrong answer and if you go along with them, you'll be misled.

If you don't know what a photon is, then how do you know a "photon band" really exists or that what you're sensing is a "photon band" and not, say, a magnetic force or 60 hertz fluctuations?

Is that Alcyone or the Pleiades you're sensing instead of, say, Aldebaran or Tau Ceti? If you don't know where the Pleaides are or what they are, how do you know you're being "told" the truth?



[edit on 4-5-2006 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Byrd

Ah! Good thing I asked. You are correct -- they had no idea. They believed the Earth was a square blanket shape that rode on the back of an alligator.

Has it ever occured to you that these "believes" are purely symbolic, noone actually held it to face value?

Mayans were very advanced astronomers indeed, Neon Haze.

"
Is that Alcyone or the Pleiades you're sensing instead of, say, Aldebaran or Tau Ceti? If you don't know where the Pleaides are or what they are, how do you know you're being "told" the truth?
"

Becuase when i sense it i remember that i original come from there. It's not as much sensing more tuning in and REMEMBERING!

Originally posted by Freeman
Becuase when i sense it i remember that i original come from there. It's not as much sensing more tuning in and REMEMBERING!

I think you're taking the statement "We are all made of stars" a bit too seriously...

Originally posted by Freeman

Becuase when i sense it i remember that i original come from there. It's not as much sensing more tuning in and REMEMBERING!

Sounds to me like you have been sniffing too much paper bind

Come from where exactly??

I used to own a photon belt... The only problem was, it was so LIGHT my trousers kept falling down....



NeoN HaZe

P.s. don't mean to offend anyone but really what a load of codswallap...

~~

setting aside all the zeta-talk.com & the other crystal-links.com stuff about the 'photon belt'// 'photon bands' which is esortericly linking the seven-sisters? star system with our Sol system,
in some type of exotic, hyper-dimensional 'entanglement'.
see also:Daniel Pinchbeck. "2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl"

[if that link from Coast-to-Coast AM, is still active]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

using the idea of back-engineering,
i think it would help if one were to examine the end of the Mayan period/cycle
which is 2012 AD

what significant events or astronomical phenomena occurred at each Mayan -Baktun- throughout the past?

we know that the Mayan -Baktun- is 144,000 days long,
this present cycle started in ~3114 BC .
..and 13 of these Baktun cycles end in 2012 AD...
hence all the hubbub of the end of the Mayan Calendar

[you should be aware that the Maya had even longer cycles, such as:]
* 1 Pictun ~7,885 years
*1 calabtun ~158,000 years
*1 kinchiltun ~3 million years
*1 alautun ~63 million years

which kinda debunks the premis that 2012 is the 'end-of-the-calendar'
...Nope, the 13 Baktun cycle is a smaller part of other and longer lasting periods/cycles/ calendars of the Maya !


Anyways.... starting with 2012
if we subtract 394 years (the 144,000 days length of 1 Baktun)

2012 AD minus 1 Baktun-> 1618 AD
1616 AD minus 394 yrs. -> 1224 AD
1224 AD minus 394 yrs. -> 830 AD
830 AD minus 394 yrs. -> 436 AD
436 AD minus 394 yrs. -> 42 AD
42 AD minus 394 yrs. ->352 BC

...and so on for 7 more Baktun @ -394 years each...
all the way back to 3114 BC when this present 13 Baktun cycle of a Mayan calendar began.



source of info:


i sorta think, nothing of significance or of Epic porportions happened in any of those dates; 1618 AD, 1224 AD, 830 AD, 436 AD, 42 AD, 352 BC, or any of the other years your anxious to calculate. the passing of the Sun over the 'dark rift' on winter solstice is (imho) a coincidence...a highly improbable metaphysical & spiritually charged drama that can play out in our minds & intellect & passions.

............................................
............................................

thanks for the help with Byrd Brain,..

St Udio,..
you rock kinda +-,. but thats the cycle,.. 144000d x 13

nice an simple,.. an yes their arent no real big event craters around those periods,..

yes there are greater shifts,.. as arguelles points out,..


this IS why i mention the points i do,...

look to greater shifts,... yes, hell, we can obviously see one going down,...
so in old days they called it precession of the equin and heralded a change in gods,.. ok,. yup yup,... god/concept/age,...

industrialve techno,... # we worship techno now,...
aaai,..? aaaai,...!

an
the 11yr sunspot trend,....
# you tell me it's not going to accumulate to US/ISRAEL middle east troubles,..
1980,1991,2002,2013,... come on bet me,...!!!!

if you follow bougouise expansion cylces as i gave other pluto years to follow by,...

Dare i say we may have a peep,..

but yes,.. most simply put,.. logically, in your face,...

DARE I SAY,..

dive for the buzzzard,.... aaarrrr,....


thanks again to the few who saved this thread,..

i really like buzzard(byrds) bible quote,...
that made me giggle,...

come on buzzard why don't you swing us a line from the good book thar,...,..

There are 7 days in the week. I also ate some Dairy Milk yesterday, net weight of 38g. 38 * 7 = 266... thus we will all die in 266 days time

I like this game!