It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Curious about the Rosicrucians & Golden Dawn

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 06:28 PM
link   
I remember reading about the Rosicrucians and Crowley/Golden Dawn in issues of Fate magazine many years ago, but I had no idea these groups still existed. Am I correct in that both organizations teach pretty much the same thing i.e. study of the kabbalah/esoteric magic? I am curious to join one, but have no idea what they are really like. If there are any members here (you can even post with a fake name if you prefer) can you tell me if it is more like a fraternal organization, or do they really study magic/rituals?

www.rosicrucian.org...

Also, I know that Madonna is into the kabbalah so perhaps she is a member of the Golden Dawn?

www.golden-dawn.org...

www.golden-dawn.com...

www.thelemicgoldendawn.org...




posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 06:47 PM
link   
I would be careful.


Occultism isn't just do whatever your mind wants, as the average profaner thinks.


It is said that many of these "Rosicrucian" groups have fallen victim to, or were created by Jahve and his Black Lodge.

Especially A.M.O.R.C. and the Zionist Berg's Kabbalah Center of which all these celebrities are influenced by.

And of course stay far, far away from Scientology/Dianetics.


The Golden Dawn is now basically defunct.

IMO, the works of S.L. MacGregor Mathers, William Wynn Westcott, Dion Fortune and maybe some of Israel Regardie's are the only ones really worth studying, as far as Golden Dawn material is concerned.


Arnold Krumm-Heller, Manly P. Hall, Max Heindel, Edward Bulwer-Lytton, Rudolf Steiner and Samael Aun Weor are more or less the only modern Rosicrucians that are really worth studying; that is if you don't want to fall into the practice of black magic, by studying pseudo-Rosicrucian material like that of the A.M.O.R.C.


(Hargrave Jennings wrote some useful books on the history of the Rosicrucians as well).





[edit on 29-4-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 06:51 PM
link   
Some general info: en.wikipedia.org...



On the passing down of Initiations through various lineages, regarding the Ancient Knowledge possessed by the Gnostic Rosicrucians:



What is Gnosis?

...One thing anyone who seriously studies esoterism will discover is that the underlying science, though never explained openly, is unalterable; all true initiates agree on the essential nature of the science and art, regardless of their tradition or even what century they lived in. Hermes Trismegistus, Moses, St. Augustine, Homer, King Solomon, the Buddha Shakyamuni, the Indian Tantric Master Padmasambhava, Mohammed, Eliphas Levi, H.P.Blavatsky, the Buddha Maitreya, Rudolf Steiner, Swami Shivananda, Nicolas Flamel, Basil Valentine, Master Moira, Max Heindel, Paracelsus, Arnold Krumm Heller, Dion Fortune, and Samael Aun Weor, writers and mystics that span the last three thousand years, all agree, all describe the exact same science, though they use different symbols and dialects. And this science is exactly the same in the mysteries of Eleusis, the Aztecs, the Maya, the Chaldeans, the Essenes, etc. This inner knowledge is the One Path spoken of by Jesus of Nazareth:

Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. - Matthew 7:13


The narrow gate is the knowledge of the Great Arcanum. To practice the teachings contained in this most precious treasure is to step onto the true Path. This path, and the steps that make it, is defined in Hebrew by the word Daath. Daath is the hidden sphere of the Kabbalah, and the word means "knowledge." It is the Tree of Knowledge from the Garden of Eden, which bore the fruit eaten by Adam and Eve. The Greek word for Daath (Knowledge) is Gnosis...







[edit on 29-4-2006 by Tamahu]


Cug

posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 07:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lloyd_Bonafide
Am I correct in that both organizations teach pretty much the same thing i.e. study of the kabbalah/esoteric magic?


Nope, I'm going to over simplify things a lot here. There are basically 3 diffrent types of Qabalah (and a hundred spellings
).

Traditional Jewish Kabbalah
The New Age Kabbalah (The Hollywood, Kabbalah Center stuff)
Hermetic Qabalah


If there are any members here (you can even post with a fake name if you prefer) can you tell me if it is more like a fraternal organization, or do they really study magic/rituals?


The Golden Dawndoes, as for the Rosicrucians it depends on who they are, I believe the Masons have a Rosicrucian group that does not practice magick.



Also, I know that Madonna is into the kabbalah so perhaps she is a member of the Golden Dawn?


Nope that is all New Age Kabbalah stuff.



www.golden-dawn.org...
www.golden-dawn.com...
www.thelemicgoldendawn.org...


The Thelemic Golden Dawn is pretty much dead as a working order as far as I know.

There are 3 main Golden Dawn orders right now (None of them are the original) it's up to you to figure out what one you like best.


Originally posted by Tamahu
It is said that many of these "Rosicrucian" groups have fallen victim to, or were created by Jahve and his Black Lodge.

Especially A.M.O.R.C. and the Zionist Berg's Kabbalah Center of which all these celebrities are influenced by.


I'd personally add stay away form the Samael Aun Weor stuff, but Tamahu would disagree.


You have to do some research and find out what best fits you.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 03:47 AM
link   
Apparently you can initiate yourself in the GD by playing Enochian Chess. Is this true? And which version of the GD would that be? (Although I doubt any organized group would advocate self-initiation.)


Cug

posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 04:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Apparently you can initiate yourself in the GD by playing Enochian Chess. Is this true?


Oh my, studying for 20 years is easier than learning to play Enochian chess! in any case most of the Enochian is best left until you have a good grasp of magick in general.


And which version of the GD would that be? (Although I doubt any organized group would advocate self-initiation.)


There really are no "versions" of the GD, they all are basically the same other than a few minor things. (but there is one that claims that they have new secrets for the inner order) as for self-initiation some say it's ok, some say it's not ok, some say it ok but not as good as a "real" initiation.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 05:26 PM
link   
With Cug and I being at odds yet again; I would not suggest the "Enochian Magick" of John Dee.




Dee, John

Dee, John "The famous doctor J. Dee sought the Philosopher's Stone and never found it, but he was reduced to the most frightening misery. In the final years of his life, the poor doctor horribly degenerated with mediumship and became a toy of the inferior entities that live in the molecular world." - The Zodiacal Course



Do What Thou Wilt, of course; and even though the Aspirant should avoid fanaticism and develope a sense of humour; Occultism is not a plaything.

Would it not be better, to instead learn the Kabbalistic Magic of the Book of Enoch based on meditation, utilizing the works of Masters who didn't fall into mediumship such as Eliphas Levi?

Discriminate what is best for your Essence based on the honest effort to awaken the Consciousness, not on the flimsy and fleeting desires of the mind.

Considering the degenerate state of this humanity, it is safe to assume that black magic and pseudo-occultism are 'as abundant as weeds'; and that the Real Path is a very rare thing to find, "more precious than a wish fulfilling gem".




Black Magic appeals to the mass mind. It appeals to the principles of our civilization. It offers something for nothing. As long as there is cupidity in the human heart, it will remain as a menace to the honesty and integrity of our race. - Manly P. Hall from Magic: a Treatise on Esoteric Ethics






Lord Krishna:

"Among thousands of men, perhaps one will strive for perfection; among those strivers, one possibly achieves perfection, and among the perfect, perhaps one knows Me perfectly." - Baghavad Gita (ch. 7, verse 3)



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:31 PM
link   
My $0.02: Enochian magick is like smoking a lot of grass. Tunnel vision, obsessive disorders, fascination with abstraction and irrelevancies... Steer clear. There's many more practical and effective systems and practices out there.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 09:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Apparently you can initiate yourself in the GD by playing Enochian Chess. Is this true? And which version of the GD would that be? (Although I doubt any organized group would advocate self-initiation.)


Theoretically, Enochian Chess is supposed to be a secret of the 5°=6° Grade of the Golden Dawn. In other words, one was already supoosed to be an initiated Adeptus Minor before learning about it.

There are a couple of different organizations claiming to be the Golden Dawn today. Perhaps the closest to the real thing is the Ciceros' Florida organization. They derive from Regardie.

On a personal note, I'm a member of Builders of the Adytum, which was founded by Dr. Paul Foster Case as the successor of the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Other spinoffs include Crowley's A.'.A.'. and Dion Fortune's Society of the Inner Light.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 12:03 PM
link   
David Icke says that the en.wikipedia.org... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">“Hail Hitler” sign was taken from the GD. Is this true? (wiki has no origin)

ML What are the ties between freemasonry and BOTA? Do you have to be a mason first? (Blue lodge I suppose)

The articles on the BOTA homepage are interesting.
However I saw that BOTA Europe (www.botaeurope.org...) redirects to a Fetish site, lol, Europeans! (Or is bondage part of official ritual?
)

About Dr. Case, why was he Demitted? What does that mean? (Did he forget to pay his dues?)


[edit on 1/5/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 12:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
David Icke says that the en.wikipedia.org... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">“Hail Hitler” sign was taken from the GD. Is this true? (wiki has no origin)


It is similar to the Sign of a Zelator in the Golden Dawn, but Golden Dawn is not the origin of the Nazi salute. Rather, the Nazis borrowed it from the Italians, where it was already being used as the Fascist salute. The salute, as well as the Fasces, dates to ancient Rome.


ML What are the ties between freemasonry and BOTA? Do you have to be a mason first? (Blue lodge I suppose)


There are no formal ties between Freemasonry and BOTA, and one does not have to be a member of one in order to join the other. BOTA also accepts women.


The articles on the BOTA homepage are interesting.
However I saw that BOTA Europe (www.botaeurope.org...) redirects to a Fetish site, lol, Europeans! (Or is bondage part of official ritual?
)


lol, no, no bondage rituals. It may be the result of a sold domain name.


About Dr. Case, why was he Demitted? What does that mean? (Did he forget to pay his dues?)



In Masonry, to demit is to end one's membership in a particular Lodge, generally for the purpose of joining another. According to the article, Case demitted from Hollenbeck Lodge No. 319 in Los Angeles on June 2, 1953, and affiliated (joined) Eagle Rock Lodge No. 422 in L.A. on the same day. However, this appears to have been the result of a Lodge merger, i.e., both Lodges combined into one, and kept the Eagle Rock Lodge name and by-laws. When this happens, it is necessary to show on Grand Lodge paperwork that all members of the first lodge demitted to the new lodge on the day of the merger.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


The articles on the BOTA homepage are interesting.
However I saw that BOTA Europe (www.botaeurope.org...) redirects to a Fetish site, lol, Europeans! (Or is bondage part of official ritual?
)



Sorry, you typed in the wrong address. BOTA Europe is www.botaineurope.org...

just "botaeurope" is a porn site unaffiliated with BOTA



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 12:33 PM
link   
Thanks ML, this info should probably be added to the Wiki. (salute origin)

If anyone is interested the BOTA Europe site can be found here. Sadly, bondage is nowhere to be found.
(A case of bait and switch if you ask me
)

What edition of the Tarot is Tamahu using for his/her avatar?
It’s one of the nicest I’ve seen.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 08:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Masonic Light
On a personal note, I'm a member of Builders of the Adytum, which was founded by Dr. Paul Foster Case as the successor of the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Other spinoffs include Crowley's A.'.A.'. and Dion Fortune's Society of the Inner Light.



Do you happen to know if Paul Foster Case and Dion Fortune knew each other?




Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
What edition of the Tarot is Tamahu using for his/her avatar?
It’s one of the nicest I’ve seen.



It's from the Course: Twenty-two Arcana.

I'd suggest first studying the Kabbalah Course though.


The Gnostic instructors I've talked to, point out that pretty much all of the modern decks are degenerated, including the Rider-Waite deck.

The Manly P. Hall/Augustus Knapp and BOTA decks may be alright; I don't know.

The Thelema-Press deck is based on the Kier deck that Samael Aun Weor used; the former having much better coloring(and with a mistake corrected).



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 07:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Tamahu



Do you happen to know if Paul Foster Case and Dion Fortune knew each other?


Yes, Case was a friend of Fortune's and her husband. Dr. Ann Davies, who became Magistra of BOTA upon Case's death, was also a friend of Fortune's.




The Gnostic instructors I've talked to, point out that pretty much all of the modern decks are degenerated, including the Rider-Waite deck.

The Manly P. Hall/Augustus Knapp and BOTA decks may be alright; I don't know.

The Thelema-Press deck is based on the Kier deck that Samael Aun Weor used; the former having much better coloring(and with a mistake corrected).


The Rider-Waite is degenerated, but purposely so (Waite did no reveal all of the correct attributions because he thought it would violate his oath of secrecy taken in the Golden Dawn). Crowley was the first to publish all the G.'.D.'. attributions openly, and eventually the Ciceros released a G.'.D.'. pack based on Regardie's descriptions.

BOTA puts more emphasis on Tarot than most other esoteric societies (the majority of practice is based around Tarot imagery), so Case worked extremely hard to organize a correct and user-friendly pack. Crowley's is also an interesting one, and much more abstract than the others, but uses the Thelemic attributions of Tzaddi to The Emperor and Heh to The Star.


Cug

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by Masonic Light

The Rider-Waite is degenerated, but purposely so (Waite did no reveal all of the correct attributions because he thought it would violate his oath of secrecy taken in the Golden Dawn). Crowley was the first to publish all the G.'.D.'. attributions openly, and eventually the Ciceros released a G.'.D.'. pack based on Regardie's descriptions.


Don't forget the Golden Dawn Tarot by Robert Wang it came out many years before the Ciceros deck. It's probably the closest to the GD deck as it was copied directly from Regardie's personal SM deck with help from Dr. Regardie himself . (Or more correctly photos of his deck as Regardie's deck was stolen)



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by Cug


Don't forget the Golden Dawn Tarot by Robert Wang it came out many years before the Ciceros deck. It's probably the closest to the GD deck as it was copied directly from Regardie's personal SM deck with help from Dr. Regardie himself . (Or more correctly photos of his deck as Regardie's deck was stolen)


You're right, it was Wang I was thinking about, not the Ciceros. Do the Ciceros have a separate pack?


Cug

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:39 AM
link   
Yep, it's the Golden Dawn Magical deck (mine was sold under a different name)

I'm not crazy about the drawing, but the GD flashing colors and the additional info in the border (like the thoth) is nice for refreshing the memory/learning.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 09:10 AM
link   
Thanks Tamahu. It’s a beautiful deck and the site appears very informative.

Cug's link refers to your deck as the Egipcios Kier Tarot. It looks like your deck, except the color scheme is different. (yours being much nicer.)

BTW, Great link Cug
There are 750 Tarot & Oracle decks described on the site.



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 03:14 PM
link   
Dont forget the Thoth Tarot, Crowley's own personal spin. Alot of the images in the court cards resemble the Golden Dawn originals. Crowley however decided to put his own personal interpretation on the cards, and thus, Thoth is way different. But worth a look.

www.aeclectic.net...



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join