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Feminist or FemiNazi? Truth and Myth

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posted on Jul, 7 2006 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are women who would rather maintain the status quo for the benefits and protections that women receive in a patriarchy. These women, although sharing a gender with feminists, move counter to the feminist movement and are therefore sexist against women.

Men aren't the only creatures who can be sexist against women.

Do people agree or disagree with this statement?


I can only speak about what I've seen women doing in the city where I live, and myself.

Whether it be from a lack of education, or a lack of will to rebel or make a formal change, the women around here all have children because having children equals having you, and your family, taken care of by the state (of Mass.). While I do not agree with their choice, I do see a certain level of validity in choosing this route -- there are no decent jobs here, very few people have money (in fact those that do have money, moved here.. did not get their wealth here, but rather vacate here to see the leaves change), and it is, on the whole, much easier to live on welfare than to try to make it on their own. Minimum wage doesn't even pay the rent anymore! Besides that, most of them became pregant before they graduated high school!

Now, is this the most correct choice they could have made? Certainly not. Were they ever informed of their choices? Don't know. I've talked with plenty of them, and while they'd love to go to school, to move, to change their lives.. they simply can't because they have children and put their children before themselves. "I'll go to school/move when the kids are older."

Most know about birthcontrol pills, but most can't afford it. Condoms are almost $6 for 3... and when you're broke.. well.. Again, it comes down to choice and willpower, turning your cheek to the current trends and social pressures.. not everyone can, nor will, or be able to maintain such a stance. (Especially when their mothers were pregnant as teens, and so they were raised by and around young mothers, thus it's not so far fetched for them to be young mothers...)

Do they necessarily counter the feminist movement? Or, do they (collectively) feed so heavily off of the system to cause it to, eventually, break down?
Personally, I say that they do neither because they are not consciously making a choice to push for patriarchy, or suckle the teet til it's dry.. They're doing their own thing.

To say that a woman who'd rather feed off the system than partake in feminism is anti-woman seems extreme.. however, I do see your point. It's easier to live within the system than to fight it.. and the system favors competition and business ethics, which seem inherently contradictory to the 'female mindset' (love & compassion).. not to say that every female is this way, but I'd wager that it's the mother instinct.

Besides that, what's the best way to fight? Aggressive gets batted down, and passive seems so subtle that no one gets the point. (The latter is, however, my preferred method. Passively in your face..
) The fact that I shaved my head has amazed so many people.. their reactions amazed me! Many people call me 'Sir' because of it. Not maliciously, but they honestly can not tell that I am a female. And to be honest -- I am not offended by it.
In my mind, it doesn't matter whether I, or anyone else for that matter, is a female or a male.. so long as they are respectful to me, and I to them.

That, above all else, should be the important part.. Respect.
*That* is the equality that I seek..
But in a society run on business ethics (while touting moral/practical ethics) -- what, exactly, can we expect beyond what we already have?




posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:26 AM
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I've seen the same thing where I live. Young girls fresh out of highschool popping out babies. I think it's sick and has nothing to do with feminism. It's selfishness. Having a baby to get money from the govt, when you are aware you don't have the financial means to support a child on your own much less yourself. They take the easy way out, they're the idiots bringing this country down.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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In truth, feminism, is not, and never was a social movement.

To this day women suffer from economic discrimination, which was supposed to have been "cured" by the feminist movement, yet in reality is was very creatively TWISTED into a pseudo-liberation movement which resulted in further fracture of the family unit, and simply forced women back to work as a post WWII labor force.

The same way they created advertising campaigns to get women hooked on smoking, the same way the created the image of the teenage American rebel, and the list goes on.

All elements of social psycho-dynamic control elements, and as far as advertising goes, not only that it's in whole based on Nazi propaganda techniques, but to this day it is taught in schools as such, with actual Nazi examples.

Head on! Apply directly to the forehead! Head on! Apply directly to the forehead! Head on! Apply directly to the forehead!

And;

Sieg Heil! Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! Heil Hitler!*

A wealth of information out there, happy hunting.

* Disclaimer; Used as propaganda/advertising similarity example.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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isklander you posted:

"To this day women suffer from economic discrimination, which was supposed to have been "cured" by the feminist movement, "

Women in the west "do not" suffer economic discrimination. This is one of the biggest MYTHS ever foisted off on a ignorant publically(television educated) tutored people..like a default setting on this computer. It just goes there automatically..no thinking involved.

Women in the West suffer no economic discrimination...at all. Men suffer economic ignorance ..carte blanche.

I can walk into any department store and look at the products displayed to the public. Approximately seven times more space is dedicated to women and womens products than are dedicated to men. What on earth can some of you be thinking??
Seven to one..this means that women are not a discriminated group of people in this economy. THey are not victims here. Only the natural inherent dumbness and ignorance of a man can miss out on this concept. I can assure you women get it right away..not men..not possible.

Seven to one...got it yet...this means that someone has to be paying for all this stuff...got the point yet???? This means that someone has to be working for the paying of all this stuff...got it yet....are the brain cells kicking into gear yet???

What on this earth are some of you thinking to let this type of thing go without even a wimper. It plays through like a default setting...this computer automatically lets it go through...just like the brain cells of many of you.

Remember...according to the standard mantra of most of the posters in this thread..women dont earn as much as men...so who is paying for this stuff?? Who is working to earn the money to pay for this stuff?? Not women...they are Victims?? Arent they??? If someone is paying for this stuff..they are taking risks to earn the moneys to pay for this stuff. Who is paying for it?? Women dont earn as much as men..right????

Think...dont emote.

Walk into a hardware franchise like Home Depot or Lowes...watch the customer base...the men going in there with women..Who is directing the affairs...and what is purchased and why?? Most of the men accompanied by women are taking directions and input from their women...why??? Because women are a economically discriminated against in this economy. Hardly..
Even the men who come in without women are usually purchasing goods and services for their familys...or they are working jobs as contractors or working for contractors to earn moneys to take car of thier familys..of whom women are a major part.

The willingness of a male to work and turn over a great portion of his production to women and children is one of the greatest historical adaptations ever among humans...yet it is hardly spoken about..or given the credit it deserves...it is defaulted out of existance. It never happened. One has to go to school and be educated to get this dumb and ignorant to miss this concept. Just look around you with your head pulled out of your backsides. Get some fresh air...and think..dont emote.

Go to any car salesperson..and ask them ..who is the major determiner of what kinds of cars get purchased in this country..men..not hardly. Most salespersons know that if they want to close the sale..they know that women determine the bulk of what kinds of cars are purchased in this economy. THey have to sell the women not the man. Why ..because women are economically discriminated against?? Not hardly. Public education at work again.
While I am at it..do you know many women who buy cars for men and make the payments or pay cash??
THink about this while some of you repeat the standard default mantras of the femminist movements. Remember ..fresh air...its good for you!!

Does this sound like women in this economy are a "victimized group" totally unable to help themselves??

My main point in all this dissertation is that women have the capacity to go to work and earn themselves a living or cash in on the social roles...ie..a relationship or marriage..to get through and obtain goods and services. This is not a option available to most men by virtue of the social roles.
This type of social role..or "OPTION" is not available or accepted among men. Only public education can dumb down a people so far that they totally miss out on this concept.

Go to any public education course on this type of thinking and see what is foisted off on a ignorant public..do you see this scenerio taught for what it is or do you hear or read the standard "Victim Mantra" taught??

People quote studys and statistics to me all the time..yet this concept or thinking is never in them. Why?? Becasue it never happens????

The concept of women in this Western nation being economically discriminated against is bogus..totally fraudulent...It is promoted and perpetuated to keep unthinking emotional people on the treadmill to get votes at election time.
THis is true of much of the "victim dictum" promoted by studies,statistics, and the media in the West..to get people on a emotional string especially at election time.
It gaurantees a controlable predicatable,malliable voting block at elections.
Only a publically educated (meaning television educated) people can be this naturally dumb as to miss this concept totally while spewing out the standard mantras.
Women and familys..children ...are the economic powerhouse in this country..not men. By virtue of this it is not possible to economically discriminate against women. Impossible. Not possible. Only public education can stupid down a people so far that they cannot think this through based on what they see around them.

One more thing for you people to consider. Buisness owners are under alot of fire today for hiring illegal aliens..becasue they work cheaper...for less moneys ..obviously they can get the jobs done..or they wouldnt be hiring them.
Has it occured to any of you that if women are doing the jobs that men do and do a better job of it for less moneys ..that buisnesses would be firing most or all of the men and replacing them with women???? Duhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Once again ..you have to go to public school(television education) to miss this concept....totally. So many of you let this play through without a wimper. A default setting. Astonishing here... the level of ignorance on this line of thinking.

TAke a look carefully at the civilization around you. Look at the systems necessary to maintain it ..to expand it ..to keep it going. Do you people think for one minute that women are going to do the work and commitment levels necessary to maintain it ..expand it ..keep it going...at the risk of thier lives..physical well being...injury?? I dont care how modern or progressive they claim to be.

Do you people actually think that if women were totally running this show..that they would work and give men such options from their career earnings ...for a lifetime. To carry men through economically and produce for men in the manner historically that men have carried thier familys?? Think long and hard on this one....think past your public education. Are women willing to make this kind of adaptation for men..in their lives as a career opportunity. To give men this type of options from their career earnings in the name of equality, fairness etc etc. Even at the risk of their lives??

I am not necessarily picking on the women here because the caliber of the men today is very low also...many of the men too are not intrested in suffering the discomforture and inconvenience as a career to maintiain the "civilized standards" to which they have become accustomed or think they deserve. They too are high maintenance. THey cant go the distance. Think long and hard on this.

A man has to be publically educated to not be able think this through. Public (television/sports) Education. I say this because women can think it through.
What a stupid bunch of men out here.

Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Two nights ago I was watching Fox News and the ticker tape on the bottom of the screen was scrolling across and there was a article about women making on the average 20% less than men.

I thought to myself ..ok ..here we go again. Its starting .

So the next day ..Sunday..I stroll up to my local convenience store to make a purchase and there was the daily local newspaper with the same story on the front page. Once again I said to myself...here we go again .. we have elections coming up again in November and they must start early to pre stage and arrange for the womens vote. Victimization mantras are the order of the day for this ability to get women on the emotional string and ready to step into the voting booth.
They are getting more sophisticated in this type of add or article but it is still the same mantra and victimization strategy. The Victim Dictum.

It is still pre staging for control of a desired voting block. To get these people ready for control when they step into the voting booth. You just have to start this stuff early enough to be effective. This trend should happen several times before the election then taper off afterwords.

It was similar to the Monica Lewinski buisness during the administration of President Clinton. Before the impeachment trials you were daily ...many times a day,all day long, bombarded by polls and news on the story to get you programmed..to groom your belief system. To get the publics support. Then when the impeachment buisness was over and Clinton was back in buisness the polls and opinion news format suddenly changed...the polls mostly died off..on this issue...same with the news. They had groomed the public subconsciously to get the appropriate response needed and getting the desired results.
It will be the same with this issue...after the election it will die out for awhile till it is needed again..for votes.
Sooner or later some of you will catch on.


By the way..this also tells me that Fox news is just as much on the political string as are the other networks...No Spin...lol lol lol..not hardly. They too just mouth out the mantras.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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conditioning us for what?? don't matter who we vote in, women, on the average will be making less than men....
it will take more than a change in the laws to change that one.

and um....by the way, a pampered slave is still just a slave...
still jumping through the hoops to please the master, still at the master's mercy.
and unless you're holding you own in this world, you're a slave, dependant on another, be it employer, husband, or whatever....

the main reason why there are more women's products than men's is that the men are too lazy to go to the store to buy the groceries? some of us have to account for every cent we spend, believe me...



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 03:19 PM
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Just curious, do we have any statistical proof that women are, in general, paid less then men in any and every field?

And I'm talking people of equal qualifications and work experience. Because typically those of less work experience or less qualifications or degrees will make less then a person with more qualifications and work experience.



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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Re read my post of 8/8/06.

Especially about the "Victim Dictum". This is the most popular best selling format about now..just before elections...to get predictable, controlable, malliable, votes.

It doesnt work on me..it is lousy technique..it comes across as the ads do here in this area for democratic candidates. Emotional Victimization. Way overdone.

Phil Donahue and others who came later about killed and overdid this mantra. Complete with Makeovers and all. Do I need to take a lie detector test on this one??

Victimization and Drama Queens do not sell well to me and others I have trained.
Please stick to some facts ...real life cases...not politically derived and politically purpose driven studys.

REmember what I stated in my post of 8/8/06...if women are doing all the things that men are doing and doing a better job of it ...for less pay ...buisness would be firing all the men and replacing them with women...just as they would like to do with Illegal Aliens..since they too work for less.

Please try to come up with something in your post other than the standard mantras and emotional victimization. That ground has been so heavily overtrodden by others. It gets wolfie when you see enough of it.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 12:41 AM
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I forgot to add..I go to the store and buy grocerys...for myself and the woman I am seeing.

It is not difficult. However that does not explain the whole...seven to one disparity in goods directed to women than men. YOur example is a placebo designed to misdirect from the seven to one ratio. The kind of thing that most men will never challange ..they would rather run with thier tails between thier legs...than risk a womans scorn. As I said..what a stupid bunch of men out here.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 05:16 AM
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traditionally, it has been the women who have done the shopping....for the most part....

my husband questioned my buying habits one too many times, now we do the shopping, or he does, but well, I just ain't gonna deal with the crap! Like I said some of us have to account for every cent spent.....and it ain't worth the hassle.

but the reason the stores are a shopper's paradise for women is that women were the ones doing the shopping while hubby was at work earning the money. besides, men were the ones traditionally earning the money, and well, trying to keep their finances in order......they had a good enough handle on those finances to know where they stood and stick to a budget....

as far as the earning part.....men earn more money than women in the workforce because men can devout more of their time and energy into the endeavor, the women will always be devided between home, family, kids, spouse, ect...or at least most women. most men will do what they always have done after a hard days work, come home plop themselves on the coach, order a beer from their wives and sit back to enjoy the tube....
most women will do what they've always done also after a hard days work....come home, help the kids with the homework, make sure they get their baths brush their teeth, pick up after them all, deliver their hubby their beer, cook, laundry, whatever else...

the government could pass a zillion laws, and this isn't gonna change..
so, if there is a big pr blitz devouted in the this area, well, the only ones buying into it are the ones that have half a brain!!!

by the way, childless women earn more than women with children also.....this gives credence to what I said...the responsibility of the actual care of these children are being unequally dropped into the women's laps, and this is interferring with her ability to earn...

hey, I know, we can require all men to attend parenting classes, so they will be informed on the need for them to interact with their children more, be more nuturing....hey, I'll have all my friends train to be their teachers (they'll make a killing!!!)..and then well, more women will have to earn more money since a nice portion of their husband's paychecks will be going to these parenting classes......for themselves, and others who can't afford the classes through higher taxes....

stupid idea, I know, but it does seem to be in line to just how our government tends to solve our social problems....find a nice scheme to earn our buddies lots of money....much of it taxpayer's money!!!
keep the government out of our social problems, and more than likely, in time, society will find it's own solution to many of them.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by dawnstar]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
Just curious, do we have any statistical proof that women are, in general, paid less then men in any and every field?


Actually no, we don't. The whole women get paid seventy cents to a mans dollar is sort of misleading. That number is soo popular because on the surface it sounds like on average women get paid less than men.

From my understanding of that little "statistic" it is representative of lifetime earnings, and not base pay. Factors such as childbirth, parenting, and marriage, often lead many women to leave the workforce earlier than most men, thereby on average, earning less over their lives than most men do.

Men make more than women simply because on average they are a part of the workforce for a larger percentage of their life. Sexism has nothing to do with it, the realities of life do.

Women actually make more than men

[edit on 15-8-2006 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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you do have a point about the pampered slave victim dictum. I believe you are correct about this line of thought.

This is precisely why I did not fix the automobile air conditioner in the car owned by the woman I am seeing.
You see I went to alot of trouble to earn this air conditioning certification which allows me to buy certain types of freon which are carefully controlled substances. She just happens to have a car using this olde controlled freon.

Fixing her auto airconditioner would make her a pampered slave and also make me disposable and expendable for her comfort and convenience ..her kids too.
This way we both save face.. She doesnt have to degrade herself to being a pampered slave and neither do I. I dont have to stoop to making myself expendable and disposable for her standard of living. Works out equal wouldnt you say??

She can however take the books I have and study for the test just like I didand then fix it herself. Or failing this pay a technician to repair it for her. Should be about $400 to $600.
I do like equality dont you???
I've been going fishing instead...In my airconditioned truck.

By the way..I dont have any respect for the type of men you stereotype. Beer drinkers et al. Men should take a part in their childrens lives ..even teaching them.
I have told this woman she is not helping or raising these children by planting them in front of the television every day and feeding/watering them. She should be teaching them how to prepare dinner ...wash dishes ..male and female...how to clean a house, their rooms and bathrooms..not how to get to the fast food lane. These are basic skills one will need to get through life daily. I dont have respect for men or women who do not teach thier children how to do theses basics but they know how to work the hell out of a remote or telephone key pad. This is institutionalized stupidity..male and female. She will only begin to figure it out when they come home time after time and cannot seem to leave the nest. Both men and women need to catch on to this very telling fingerprint. What I describe is a formula for high maintenance children. Very destructive.

I can take care of myself...Have done so for years. I dont need a woman for those things you describe.
I am not the kind of man who takes great pleasure out of the "shopping experience". I go in the stores with a list and get what I need and leave. This irritates this woman to no end.

I do however take very serious risks in my occupation for my moneys. I dont appreciate being taken for granted by a woman in trying to gain access to my moneys and talents/skills for hers or their childrens conveneince. In short ..to groom me to take on her value systems in lieu of mine....including my moneys.
Dont worry..most men are to stupid to think this through...they think they must constantly try out for a womans approval ratings with thier moneys or skills. In short ..to take on a career in male disposability and expendability based on her clues and cues..ie ...nagging when all else fails..instead of integrating ones self into real problem solving skills.

Dont get me wrong..like alot of men I enjoy a beer now and then. I like wine better. It is just that alcohol is not a career opportunity for me..I have more important things to do than watch sports/television and consume alcohol. What a stupid bunch of men.
I do not worship at the altar of the Gods of Sports and Alcohol.....Bacchus.
I have little respect for men like this. Nor do I have much respect for nagging "Victimization" type women.


THanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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In his book "why men earn more" by Warren Farrell He covers this so called disparity in pay with clear studys and statistics also some careful thought. If you are a thinker...you will learn to look around you at the economy/buisnesses you see and take a close look at the male/female roles which take place in it.

What Warren comes up with ..though it has been awhile since I read it.

Women take off more time than men.
They require more expensive facilities than men.
Use more medical benifits than men.
They are more reluctant to work overtime or the long shifts as do men...though this is somewhat changing.
They are more reluctant to take on traveling especially far from home or for lengthy assignments...especially overseas assignments.

YOu guys need to remember something else...two things..what I posted in the above list is never in the statistics as to why or reasons for less pay...
What you are not told is that these statistics and studys are usually politically derived...hence for political reasons...ie...votes. They are not usually for clear cut identifiable reasons...usable by the public..but only usable for the body politic.
Keep this in mind when you see or read a news flash..the abscence of reasons like the ones I posted above. THis is how you tell that these articles are pure politics...ie..brainwashing. This is why I say so many things around us are placebos to keep you on the string. To keep both males and females ignorant while promoting the "victim dictim" for votes.

Another thing you need to realize. The women here in the West are not looking to take on male roles as a career ...for this pay...pe se...they are looking to take on more female roles for the same pay as males in male roles. They are by and large not looking for jobs which would entail alot of discomforture...inconvenience...hardship. Heat...weather, cold...et al. No matter what these jobs may pay. They are by and large looking for jobs in areas already developed where they just have to come in and enjoy a degree of comfort and stability....pre done and prestaged by someone else. THese are the jobs which traditionally dont pay as much. This too is not in the statistics.

Observe when these types of people post ..they make many things implicit...not explicit. They imply...they do not often give concrete facts..but use implication and defaults to play through. YOu people need to be smarter than this.

One of the defaults so popular today is the concept of the "Strong Woman". The implication is that men are afraid of a "Strong Woman".

As a knowlegable woman told me...A truely "Strong Woman " never has to advertise that she is a "Strong Woman". People will quickly piece together that she is infact Strong. Same with a man. No difference. I can assure you men will quickly notice a weak man...and a woman will notice one faster than a man for women understand nuance and subtilty much more than does a man. And from a different angle than a man too.
The woman who taught me this is one of the few women I respect..she "is" a strong woman. She takes more crap from the women with whom she works than the men. She told me the men she can handle very easily ..they are very basic. Pat them on the head and some praise they are good for another hundred thousand miles. The women.... they are much more subtle and crafty..those who choose to be this way..not all but those who choose. They often work on a sense of entitlement....very subtle. She will yank thier chain very quickly and get them to straighten up or get out. I jokingly call her the "Queen Bee" ...only one queen be allowed where she works.

This is a line of thought I would never have gotten from men...to stupid....to much sports. You guys need to be aware of this line of thought ..daily....for your survival.

One more thing you guys need to be aware of ..the Anital Hill incident in the confirmation hearings for Justice Clarence Thomas. This one incident did more to set back the womens movement nation wide..than any other case.
Since that event many buisnesses began to quitely exclude women from certain kinds of meetings among men in buisnesses. Men began to meet away from the board rooms..and work enviornment ..decisions began to be made..on the Golf Courses...bars ..et al. THis all because of the liabilities posed by women pushing the feminist positions. Especially through court actions.
The womens movements did this to themselves while whining about pay and other issues.
This is not a view you will ever hear from the movements or the news media...but it is true.

Gott go..work to do around here...no women to relieve me of this stress...or burden...I'm a "Victim!!"

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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stupid question here....
is her kids also your kids???

because if they are, you should fix the danged car!!!



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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No its not a stupid question...and they are not my kids.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 05:11 AM
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------------------------------------------

Another thing you need to realize. The women here in the West are not looking to take on male roles as a career ...for this pay...pe se...they are looking to take on more female roles for the same pay as males in male roles. They are by and large not looking for jobs which would entail alot of discomforture...inconvenience...hardship. Heat...weather, cold...et al. No matter what these jobs may pay. They are by and large looking for jobs in areas already developed where they just have to come in and enjoy a degree of comfort and stability....pre done and prestaged by someone else. THese are the jobs which traditionally dont pay as much. This too is not in the statistics.

---------------------------------------

and I have several life experiences that would tend to degrade this theory just a tad...

we lived in texas for over ten years, I graduated from college in texas about the time that their was those nice tent cities there (reagan's recession). well, times were hard, it was hard for the men to find jobs when I graduated...my husband, a machinist, was pushing asphalt and doing roofing for a living. many of the machine shops just closed up shop. so, this was the economy when I graduated. I applied for lots of jobs, my degree was in data processing, wouldn't think that I would have that much of a problem....well, it seems the only jobs I could get was resturant work....I ended up waitressing in a truck stop.
my husband finallly told me what the problem was. there was an attitude that as long as there was men needing jobs, they wouldn't hire women....since well, men had families to take care of, and well, women have a man taking care of them or danged well should have one!! a women I worked for in NY lived in texas also, she also told me about the same thing about the place.

and well, the job in NY where we both worked, seems to have the same problem. immigration came in and hauled away on of the press operators for the big press. I was trained enough to at least pull half the workload of all the presses, so of course, the shifted me to the press untill they found someone. there was only a few things I couldn't do operating this press mainly because of the lack of physical ability. this press was too big for me. okay, they hire this guy, and well his starting pay is two dollars more an hour than mine, although they have to train him from the beginning......
now keep in mind, there was only a few things I couldn't do on this thing, a couple screws I would have my partner recheck to make sure they were tight enough, sometimes I would have trouble handling the heavier stock, ect.....
but, then, I also could set up and operate the laminator, pack, grommet, was great when it came to qauality control, and well, to put it simple, there wasn't much in the shop I couldn't do.....
well to make a long story short, their new ace employee slipped on the ice one day, ended up one workmen's comp, and well, he seems to have been working under the table at the place where we bought our van.....while drawing workmen's comp...and well, I went back to the big press for awhile (making two dollars less than this clown) till they found someone else......hurt myself handling the heavy stock, ended up quiting (part of the reason was that the doctor bills was killing me, I wound up one day not having the money for gas for the week), and well, going without any income for over a year!!

but no one will convince me that the reason they started this clown at two dollars more than me was because he had a family to take care of, and my boss figured I had a man to take care of me!!!

we live in a world where the family needs both working, taking care of the family. this attitude won't carry us far in today's world.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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orangetom1999, my apologies for not reading your post in its entirety. I kind of glanced through it.

Let me put it this way. My wife and I have been married for a while now, and I'm speaking from experience.

When you and your girlfriend start living together you'll see for your self how much maintenance a women actually requires and how much it all costs.

Feminine products of all kinds as a standard cost much more then men's. Women do get payed less, not just by wages/salary rates but also by longer promotion cycles. Women get less benefits, pay higher car/health insurance rates, etc. The list goes on.

Don't forget that women regularly get taken advantage of by unscrupulous sales reps of all kinds.

Just not to long ago some dickhead tried charging my wife $1500 for a lose battery lead. Naturally the bill included transmission flush, brake "tuning", air filter "check", and other crapp like that.

As soon as I showed up they told me it was an error made by new hire. Right.

There is no equality, it's all spin. More women are working and trying to act like men, while current generation of males simply doesn't mature and grows up into manboys, programmed to think that the only way they can "get some" is by making as much money as they can, because the basic human right of procreation has been turned into a marketing ploy.

No wonder that the animosity towards women is growing exponentially. Boys don't grow up into men and get angry because every pair of tits has a price tag on them.

What ever.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 09:45 PM
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THanks for your reply and the narrative.

Where I work the women start at the same pay as the men. THere are factors in play like work experience which come into play for any job.

By the way I am a machinist also. I am what is called a outside machinist verses a machinist working in the shops. I operate and use portable machines on the ships themselves..verses what we usually think of as a in shop machinist. I am in the shipbuilding trade here on the East coast where we build these Aircraft Carriers and Submarines.

Mind you now this place tends to hire people with experience..particularly ex Navy people at higher rates than those just coming in off the street with no experience.

My statement if I recall is that women are not looking to do this kind of work as a career.....most of them anyway. They soon find thier way into other departments with better conditions. There are very very few women who stay on the ships for twenty or thirty years..no matter what it pays. Most quickly find ways to get out.

I am not picking on the women exclusively here...for the caliber of men now days is very low too. Many of the men do not like discomforture or inconvenience, Hardship or problem solving to get something done. In this ,to me, they are very femminine..high maintenance. I will get rid of these types quickly on my job..male and female..for they have just enought acumen/self promotion to get you hurt or killed. These..."men" are pretty type men...all the right lines and jokes and they look good on Friday or Saturday night on the town..but when the hard work or task comes they look for ways out or excuses.

THere are a handful of women here in the trades for whom I respect and they know their jobs and can go the distance when it is required. THey dont make excuses...they get it done. THey are "strong women."
However much of this type of work is not the type of work or occupation which will draw most women. Those it does stay only long enough to move on to other jobs or marry their way out of it...or move to other departments with better conditions.

One of the side skills of my machinist trade is that I am also a nuclear fueler. I can assure you that women are not flocking to this type of work..no matter what it pays or how much overtime is available. Its just not in the social fabric or belief system. No matter how much equality they preach.
Mind you once again this does not make me better than others ..male or female..it makes me different and aware.

Perhapsed now you can understand why I say that I dont appreciate being taken for granted by any woman in view of the risks I sometimes must take for my moneys. I just dont believe in taking second best when being expected to give first fruits..especially by some social default setting or what I consider political drivel..especially the "Victim Dictim."
As I have said before....most men dont think this far..they think they must constantly pick up on a womans clues and cues to remain in her line of sight or be overlooked. I dont waste my time going there. Thats just the way it is with me.
Stuff like fixing that auto airconditioner and other experiences. I am just not intrested in that kind of expendability or disposability ...especially in a day and time of equality and multitasking.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Thanks also for your reply. No problem on the delay.

I understand your point about how much maintenance costs are for women. I already know this from experience. This is not my burden. What you seem to be decrying here is that I must take on part of this burden and allow them to play through because of this. I must help shoulder this burden...in what ever manner is popular for this election cycle....and call this fairness...equality....even...etc etc etc..or whatever the latest mantra is.

I can assure you ...iskander that the women I know are not attempting to take their time and moneys and shoulder burdens for me. In any kind or type of equality.They like it the other way around. It simply does not fit in with the mental and spiritual concept of female social structure or beliefs..or if you like ...religion.

Most of them do not come over here and cut my grass for me...fix my cars or truck. Or my mopeds. They do not repair or pay for the repairs for my washer and dryer. Understand. Or my refrigerator. This is to much commitment. It does not fit in with the belief system. I dont care how much education or equality they preach.

How many of them do you think will accept it the other way around...gratis.???

Once I understood this...I began to look around me closely at the very fabric of masculine and femminine...I even went so far as to look at the media and how it plays the sexes against each other for profit. I say this both for the buisnesses and political partys...profit.

As to women getting taken advantage of by unscrupulous sales reps...this happens to men also..who dont know..this is not strictly a sex thing. Many men today are the push button types...if it cannot be done by the push of a button it is not worth doing by them. Sales reps will take advantage of them too. I too have had them try this on me..it just doesnt work well..obviously by my post to Dawnstar.
It is good that you know this fact..it keeps you ahead of many high maintenance men and women.

Yes ..correct on the battery leads...

I was surprised to learn by "experience" how many people buy batteries every few years when all they have to do is replace some leads and or put some distilled water in the cells. They must sell millions of dollars in batterys to people who dont know much of anything about anything ...period.

I found this out about a weedeater ..when mine began to malfunction. I took the time to dissassemble it and decarbonized it and cleaned it out ...it worked fine for another few years. Just simple things and thought processes you learn yourself by doing something other than watching television and talking on the phone. I was shocked to find out how few parts there actually are in a weed eater.

Now I did help this woman I am seeing by removing her Alternator...from her car. I showed her it is possible to save some money by taking it to a local rebuild shop...and having them rebuild it for $98.00 verses $185.00 at the local Auto Zone for thier rebuild. I did make her pay for the repair..I merely removed and installed it...but I kept here there handing me tools and Iced tea since it was her car. I'm just not looking for a career in such "Rescuing/flashdancing through life" since she doesnt really want to take on my burdens as a career. YOu know...equality and all that mantra stuff. REmoving an Alternator is not that difficult in most autos...though some of these sideways sitting motors are tricky. I'm a bit of olde school here...in autos.

I agree alot of it is spin..and alot of women preaching "victim dictim" and woe is me..is spin to me.

And yes..you are correct...about current generation males. Manboys. I have walked this earth long enough to know a real man is a man on the inside first ..not on the outside.. Same with a woman. No difference.

The basic social nature dictates that when the going gets really tough ..a woman wants a Man...not a pretty boy.

I believe what you are alluding to is that social roles..or spin has made both male and female roles disfunctional and obsolete ..a marketing ploy. I agree on this.
It is however malliable and controllable through the media and public education paid for by the body politic...for votes...in its disfunctionallity. By mere economics the important vote here at election time has become the womans vote..not the males.

Remember something else iskander...many of the males are raised like the females by females..they have female traits and values. Many are so dumb they cant even defend a male position..and they could be right in thier beliefs..but the women out emote and out talk them ten to one. What a bunch of dummys.

I watch these guys at work...when you put the swimsuit edition in front of them the brainwave action..flatlines...no thinking going on. Amazing!!! Same thing with the sports page...flatline.

What I am telling you iskander is that the problem is not the women..it is the men...

One of my biggest nightmares is to survive some kind of calamity and be stuck on a deserted island with about 400 women and manboys. What a nightmare!!!

I want to remind you of something else about costs...male and female...

YOu do not acquire more manhood by purchasing more products in a spray can or a squeeze tube. Or by purchasing a certain kind of car. Manhood is not acquirred in this manner. Real Manhood is internal first and foremost.

This pattern however,external, does often pass for womanhood by accepted social roles. Mostly the ignorance of men. Real womanhood is in fact also internal first.
To bad more men dont know this ...this world we see would be a different place.
THere are women out here who do know this about real womanhood however few.
Its just that living this knowlege will not sell alot of market share...its easier to sell the spin. Especially to women and the effeminae male...spin.

As to the animosity of which you speak ..this is because of the natural dumbness of many men...and yes..you are correct ..it is getting worse.

A man who is a man ...knows that there is no "Oil Shortage " out here such that he has to rush to the oil pump...before the next ignorant oil shortage. It is not an endangered or rare commodity that a man needs to spend alot of time jumping through hoops in frustration to get it. Like I said ..what a stupid bunch of men out here.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:39 AM
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heck orange, most men wouldn't want your job!! my husband would prefer to haul the feight off the docks first......of course he's over 50 and blew his back out years ago pushing asphault. my husband learned the trade through an appreniceship prorgram years ago, back when many companies had machine shops within their plant so they could machine their own parts for the machines....
I have three grown sons, so I look for such opportunities often keeping an eye out for them. we have a rail company here and well, their the only ones I've seen offering such....for outside machinist....ya, they pay good....lol!! but like I said, my husband would go back to driving truck first.

I'm a screen printer. I like the work. It's not a cushy job, I've seen the effects of the chemicals have caused in my coworkers, worked in unairconditioned plants where the temperature was way higher than the summer heat outside the plant. I've worked with screens so big it took three guys just to carry it to the press. I've also hepled print the manual that the navy uses to train their pilots. (also cut the gaskets in those jets.....) I perform a needed service to society, I expect to be paid a living wage. In today's society, I could say the same thing about the burger flippers at McDonalds!! or the cashiers at your local grocery store. the jobs need to be done, so the salaries should be something that will sustain the employees, and be considerate to the fact that socieity needs children to carry onto the next generation. as I see it, equality has only led to the idea that now, the men are just as eqaully get stuck in one of these unappreciated occupations as women are. it isn't a matter of weather or not its a cushy job, or else my husband would have been making more roofing or pushing asphault than he did as a machinist.... and it isn't a matter of how many hours are put in, since I hardly ever deny overtime and usuallly ran that press after the clown went home for the day, the short time he was there...
and I really don't think that experience has much to do with it, since my boss had experience, he had first hand knowledge of what I could do, over two years personal experience in the matter,.....the clown was an unknown to him.
but the clown was a man, he had a family to support, and well, I was a women, I had a husband looking after me...or so he thought. he found out differently after I got hurt and went over 6 months without medical care.

and as far as me maintaining my husband, well at that time, I was coming home, doing his laundry, taking care of his house and kids, cooking his meals, ect. ect. ect.......I had to go to work, it was financially needed.....it was a fair trade, since many times I was working 50 hour weeks just to earn what little I got...trying to come up with the money for the medical care I needed, well, he should have been willing to pick up some of the slack around the house, he wouldn't and well, I am danged lucky I can still walk now.

if you consider the time I spend at work, and the time I spend around here doing crap, I still put in more hours than him, although I earn half as much. but, now, well, I will take time out to rest, have to, like walking too much...if someone doesn't pick up the slack, it's not gonna get picked up!!

by the way, if you guys don't like your girlfriends or wives spending all that money on their make up, hair dyes, hair sprays, and other cosmetic crap, do some research into what is put into them and present them with the facts.....if they have half a brain, it will scare them to death and save you lots of money.....
my husband and son buy more of that kind of crap than me....
I'm allergic to the crap they put into it....






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