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Originally posted by godservant
It just seems to me that for every disadvantage a woman can claim, a man can come up with one too, and vice versa.
I live FOR my wife. However, because she has always tried to live ABOVE me, instead for or WITH me, she is now asking me not to leave her. I will leave that choice to a higher source, but you see how this perception of feminism is ruining families ALL OVER THE PLACE.
Whenever there are two EQUAL leaders in one home and one or both refuse to do any submitting,
I am tired of submitting 95% percent of the time. Equal? No way. I see it in SO many places even outside of my own experience.
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Feminism is, quite simply, a belief and support of the social, political and economic equality of the sexes. Feminists work to make a reality the social, political and economic equality of women and men.
I do not wish to be the same as you. And I do not believe that woman and man can be perfectly equal. We need to, however, have the same opportunities - economically, politically, intellectually, and so on.
Hello, nice thread you got here. The first quote is from the first post in this thread, and the last is from your last post in the thread.I am confused, can you help me. If you don't believe that equality is possible then why fight for it?
Sure there are always those who say that they are all for removing the double standards that exist, but why are those never part of the argument?
Another thing to think about--any and all progress made in society will probably vanish as soon as society is finished. It could be 10 years or a thousand. As soon as there are no police, and/or laws to protect them, women will most likely be forced back into their "traditional" roles.
Originally posted by Springer
I have to agree with you on the relationship part... Val and I are partners for sure. Nobody "runs" things. i.e. I do the dishes, cook and keep the place presentable. WHY? Because I work from home and it's logical.
I HATE doing laundry, Val does laundry.
She HATES going to the market, I do the shopping.
Originally posted by parrhesia
We're all humans fundamentally - males and females fundamentally constitute the same thing, yet one group has more opportunity, and more value than the other.
You may not see it, but that is part of the opportunity.
If women were not constantly objectified and seen to be there for the use and enjoyment of men then perhaps there would not be any problems associated with a male officer frisking a female.
Why might women not want to cohabitate in jails? I don't think the men would have to worry excessively about rape whereas the same cannot be said of women in such a situation. Once again, if women were free of those fears - the fear of rape, of being controlled and used sexually without consent then maybe that would be ok.
I don't think anyone should be hit for looking at someone the wrong way or saying the wrong thing, but if it has to be done you certainly won't be hearing me arguing against it on the basis that I am a woman.
That's a piss poor argument against feminism and the current struggles.
Next?
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Are you trying to tell me that men do not worry about getting raped in prison? You have got to be kidding me?
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Who does the raping?
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Are you trying to insinuate that rape is exclusive to males?
Who does the raping in the female prisons (excluding the C.O's)
The truth is that prison rape of females is more common than the rape of males. It usually comes in the form of other prisoners as well as male & female guards. Male prisoners usually have to deal only with other inmates.
Source
After all your posts in this thread this really surprises me.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Both men and women deserve the protection from being raped, but until that happens, I understand and support women not wanting to open themselves up to being imprisoned with bigger, stronger prisoners who would just love to get hold of them. Sorry if that offends you.
I'm sorry. I happen to have been raped, not to mention repeatedly sexually abused as a child. All by men. It's something I'd like to avoid.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Do you think women and men should be imprisoned together?
Do you think they should shower together?
Do you think the women would pose some kind of threat to the men?
Do you think the men would pose some kind of threat to the women?
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
[Either you are equal, and subject to all aspects of equality (yes, including co-habitation), or you admit that you need protection from the big bad men. You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Personally, I do not believe that women should be allowed to be police, fire "people", or serve in the military.
Converesly, I do not think that the majority of women should also have to face a draft,
or the other possibilities just because a few women have a chip on their schoulder and are out to prove that they can do anything as well as a man. Most things women can do as well as a man, but definitely not everythihng, and the opposite holds true for men as well.
Does this mean that I think that women can not make great warriors? Of course not, like darkelf who can fire a weapon,
Allow me to share a story...
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Well, no wonder we disagree then. But that's ok. People disagree.
Why not?
It doesn't have anything to do with 'being able to do it as well as a man', or having a chip on their shoulder. It has to do with being able to do it. It has to do with having the choice available to them. IT HAS TO DO WITH CHOICE! If I want to serve my country and be drafted, why shouldn't I?
Any woman can fire a weapon. Darkelf chooses to.
I'm sorry I don't even want to address this. Violence between men and women... it has nothing to do with feminism.
Think of me as a hypocrite if you wish. Really. I am secure with where I stand and I understand 'movements' like this take time and people aren't going to be all willing to jump on the bandwagon.
Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Because I think that the current way works just fine.
As for the draft... Do I really have to point out the absurdity in this as well? The very idea of a draft is to remove all choice.
Considering the laws in this country blatantly favour women in this regard, I am completely amazed at this. I do not know why I am though. Hey, at least your hypocrisy is consistent huh?
Nice discussion either way, and hopefully no offense was taken at anything I said.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't think it works just fine. It doesn't work fine for me, but I guess that's not your concern. You think it works just fine for everyone, you're the man, so I guess I should just not worry my pretty little head about it.
I want women to have the choice to serve their country to their fullest ability. If the country institutes a draft, then I believe women should be drafted. I realize the way it works is just fine for you. But you're not the only one affected. But again, I'm just a woman so what do I know?
You are mistaken to assume that cohabitation in a prison envirenment and violence against other people is some kind of proof of equality.
How am I being a hypocrite? Violence doesn not equal 'manly'. Violence is something people of both sexes engage in when they can't figure out what else to do. Violence is not an equal right.
But if someone threatened me or mine, let me just say they'd be very sorry. And I wouldn't have to go running to my husband to bail me out, either.
I most definitely take offense at being called a hypocrite, because I am not, but I can handle it.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
phoenix, Your insistence that prison cohabitation and violence is somehow tied to equal rights is like saying that if women don't get into sports that's proof that they want to pick and choose their 'equal rights'. After all, if women really wanted equality, they'd want to sit around and drink beer and watch football, wouldn't they?
You're making a common mistake anti-feminists make by confusing women's equal rights with women wanting to be like men. As I have said, I don't want to be like a man. I want to change some perceptions about what being a woman means. I want equality whether it's comfortable for you or not.
I don't expect you to get it because you really don't want to, but I think trying to make me out to be a hypoctite because you don't understand it all is a pretty cheap shot.