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Originally posted by Boatphone
I respect and care for women as much as anyone -- All smallpeeps has done is complain about the American justice system and then offer zero ways to make it better. Then he falsely accused Dr. Condi Rice of being a big oil shill. And then he also claimed that ED drugs are tools for rape, and that men cannot be raped.
Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
BH and I are today living that ideal. At least I think so.
I'm sick to the back teeth, sick and tired, of feminists being accused of sexism and hypocrisy unless we spend exactly half of our time and resources pointing out every instance of how 'patriarchy hurts men too'. Gay rights activists aren't expected to spend half their time campaigning for heterosexuals. Anti-racism activists aren't expected to spend ages campaigning on behalf of white people. Yet its a different story with feminism, isn't it? The most infuriating thing about this is that - as regular readers will know - I do think that feminism is important for men as well as women and I encourage both men and women to critique mainstream masculinity as well as femininity. But that doesn't mean that I think that every single instance of feminist activism has to be prefaced with a disclaimer about how this also benefits men.
...
It's because there is a stigma attached to any activism that unashamedly benefits women, as a social group. It's not seen as worthy enough, and fighting on behalf of women as a group is embarassing somehow. I'm just talking about plain, uncontroversial activism that improves the lives of women.
Gay rights activists aren't expected to spend half their time campaigning for heterosexuals.
Anti-racism activists aren't expected to spend ages campaigning on behalf of white people.
It's because there is a stigma attached to any activism that unashamedly benefits women, as a social group. It's not seen as worthy enough, and fighting on behalf of women as a group is embarassing somehow. I'm just talking about plain, uncontroversial activism that improves the lives of women.
Originally posted by smallpeeps
Critics Knock Naming Oil Tanker Condoleezza
Chevron redubs ship named for Bush aide Condoleezza Rice
www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2001/05/05/MN223743.DTL
The giant vessel was part of the international fleet of the San Francisco- based multinational oil firm, christened several years ago in honor of Rice, a longtime Chevron board member. Rice, a former Stanford University provost, served on Chevron's board from 1991 until Jan. 15, [2001] when she resigned after Bush named her his top national security aide.
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
smallpeeps,
I'm really curious about this distinction. Equal chance at a job is great, and most folks would gladly support it. But if a sea change in gender roles is what you're after, the workplace is the finish line, not the starting gate. The starting gate is education.
Originally posted by WolfofWar
What the real issue is, is with any rallys for rights of people, is that the -ists of the group only dicuss one side of it.
Just with gay rights activists, or Anti-Racist activists, they only talk about one group. That makes the other side feel alienated and threatened.
You DO have to represent all sides of the issue. If feminism is truly about equality, it has to represent that. It has to touch on the subject of men, not just women, who promote that equality, otherwise, you WILL go from promoting Equality to skewered views like "Men are the devil."
Despite what those anti-feminist emails accused me of, I am one of those feminists who belives that the mainstream culture does stereotype men. I do believe that 'Patriarchy Hurts Men Too'
...
I'm one of those who believes that 'Feminism Benefits Men Too' ... Yes, I do think that stereotyping men are bad, as I've said, again and again and again. I never said it wasn't.
...
feminists think men should be treated as fully functional human beings with brains and morals who should be held responsible for the choices they make. If I was a man, I'd rather have that than the shallow and insulting implication that 'men can't help it because they're naturally stupid.' If I was a man, I know which I'd find most offended by. If I was a man, I know who'd I'd accuse of 'man-hating'. And yes, yes, for the hundredth time YES, feminists disapprove of advertisements that stereotype men as ignorant buffoons. These ads are nothing more than macho caricatures which, as Holly Combe said to me recently, 'make fools of men, whilst simultaneously making excuses for them.'
The F Word
Originally posted by smallpeeps
What's this? Another useless post totally devoid of facts, information or ideas from ATS member Boatphone?
Yeah so that's TEN YEARS as a Chevron board member
Link...
Rice has served on the board of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, The Carnegie Corporation, The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.
She was also on the Board of Trustees of the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan, and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors.
Why do you want me to make you look silly, BP?
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't have any respect for Condoleeza Rice. I She has gotten to where she is by appeasing men and acting like a man. She has shown that she goes along with the war mongering, supports torture, concealed evidence
I won't put her up as an indication of feminine equality simply because we share the same genitals.
She is being used by the (white, male) patriarchy
She goes along. I dare say she wouldn't stand up if she disagreed.
Rice was a Democrat until 1982 when she changed her political affiliation to Republican after growing averse to President Carter's foreign policy.
The Link...
Some people consider her truly powerful and that's ok. I do not. We have different opinions of the woman.
To be 6 again...
A man asked his wife what she'd like for her birthday.
"I'd love to be six again," she replied.
On the morning of her birthday, he got her up bright and early and off they went to a local theme park.
What a day! He put her on every ride in the park: the Death Slide, the Screaming Loop, the Wall of Fear, everything there was! Wow! Five hours later she staggered out of the theme park, her head reeling and her stomach upside down. Right to a McDonald's they went, where her husband ordered her a Happy Meal with extra fries and a refreshing chocolate shake.
Then it was off to a movie, the latest Star Wars epic, a hot dog, popcorn, Pepsi, and M&Ms.
What a fabulous adventure! Finally she wobbled home with her husband and collapsed into bed.
He leaned over and lovingly asked, "Well, dear, what was it like being six again?"
One eye opened. "You idiot, I meant my dress size."
The moral of this story:
Even when the man is listening, he's still gonna get it wrong.
SEND THIS TO WOMEN WHO NEED A LAUGH... AND TO MEN YOU THINK CAN HANDLE IT...
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Are you contending that males do not make up at least 95% of history's book of infamy?
at the hands of men - you can't do it!
Nobody is saying that violence is exclusively male, only that war and carnage and mass death are the hallmarks of men, not women.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To be 6 again...
A man asked his wife what she'd like for her birthday.
"I'd love to be six again," she replied.
On the morning of her birthday, he got her up bright and early and off they went to a local theme park.
What a day! He put her on every ride in the park: the Death Slide, the Screaming Loop, the Wall of Fear, everything there was! Wow! Five hours later she staggered out of the theme park, her head reeling and her stomach upside down. Right to a McDonald's they went, where her husband ordered her a Happy Meal with extra fries and a refreshing chocolate shake.
Then it was off to a movie, the latest Star Wars epic, a hot dog, popcorn, Pepsi, and M&Ms.
What a fabulous adventure! Finally she wobbled home with her husband and collapsed into bed.
He leaned over and lovingly asked, "Well, dear, what was it like being six again?"
One eye opened. "You idiot, I meant my dress size."
The moral of this story:
Even when the man is listening, he's still gonna get it wrong.
the reason women strike out at men like this is that they feel resentment and it's the only way they know to feel their power.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by Boatphone
So, the goal of the feminist movement is to change men’s view of women?
I would say yes, that's one goal. To change men's (and women's) ingrained views and therefore treatment of women is certainly an important goal of the movement.
So, who is to say it's okay to change one's views? That's pretty vain to figure that the views need changing in the first place. I'm not saying I disagree with equality (as far as equality can go, so long as logic and rationality are in tow as well), I'm just saying when is it okay for one human being to try to change another human being's perceptions? Many people have had 'movements' to change things all throughout history, and sometimes it backfires or ends up in disasterous consequences.
Originally posted by LysergicI do feel women are better with kids, maybe its instinct for them but when I see a tiny baby I don't like to hold them I feel like if I move wrong I could hurt it. that's just my personal opinion
They're are a lot of way women are put down though where a male would get praise, the o'so famous if a girl has sex with random partners every night she's a whore but if a guy does it he's a stud? Also the "pretty good, for a girl."
Originally posted by dedre
So, who is to say it's okay to change one's views?
That's pretty vain to figure that the views need changing in the first place.
I'm not saying I disagree with equality (as far as equality can go, so long as logic and rationality are in tow as well), I'm just saying when is it okay for one human being to try to change another human being's perceptions?
Many people have had 'movements' to change things all throughout history, and sometimes it backfires or ends up in disasterous consequences.