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Is Canada a police state?

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posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by chissler

Originally posted by Echtelion

And yes, I also am a passport-carrying Canadian. But never I will associate myself with that tyrannic government.


I will take the assumption you are an American, if not correct me. If you consider the Canadian government tyrannic, I am curious to see what you would consider the American government to be? We talk of police doing random spot checks as a violation of basic human rights in order for the safety of others. Some members in this thread do not see this as an even trade off. So with that, exactly what would you consider the Patriot Act? If there was ever an extreme example of basic human rights being removed in order for the protection of others, this is it.

The government used 9/11 as a scapegoat for all their problems and in the wake of it had the citizens willingly turn over some of their basic rights. Did Canada remove rights from their citizens?

No we have not. We provide a health care system for the rich and poor alike, can the poor in the US say they can go to the hospital and recieve the care they deserve? I am happy to fork over tax dollars in order to save another life that normally would not beable to afford it.

Yet we are a country run by tyrants.



Well no, Chissler, I am natural-born Canadian, and still live here. I was not trying to say that Canada's political regime is better or worse than the US government, as to me they are more of the same thing, only that one of these is a global hegemonic empire, and the other is, well, his little pal that eats the leftovers
I've been travelling in some parts of the world, and came to realize that "democratic" governments are deeply rotten, made with corrupt people who don't even care about public opinion and more about their corporate agendas, and all tend to be and behave like criminal organisations, which eventually turn on the dictatorial side when they see their legitimacy being threatened, if not already.

Bill C-36, that is the Canadian equivalent of the Patriot Act, is deeply infringing on citizen's rights, while giving special security cover to international businessmens and foreign interests, and justifying massive public surveillance and arrests. I'd say that the Federal government was not going to such lenghts as the Bush admnistration to erode constitutional rights (no such thing as the DHS was created, as an instance), since it does'nt have the necessity and means for it...

And Deus Ex, I'm not into the word-for-word reply game, but you obviouslty never heard anything about the SECURITY CERTIFICATES, which are a direct violation of the Bill of Rights and Liberties and have been used in many occasions over the past few years to arrest without warrant and indefinitely detain some people, mainly Muslim immigrants and refugees. This adding to issues of police brutality, i.e. the frequent beatings or killings on the streets by police agents in urban areas (that usually targets Blacks, prostitutes or homeless people, but not limited to these), the constant harassment, abductions and killings of indigenous peoples in Native reservations. And what about the massive arrests in peaceful protests? I for one, along with other people, was detained during the last elections for having distributed tracs on the streets. People do have the right to take the streets to express their disagreement with policies. Here the government uses the Law to justify And NO, I'm not making up stuff. I've seen these things many times, and even mainstream newspapers talk about events like that regularly.

Police state, from Wikipedia:



A police state is an authoritarian state which uses the police, especially secret police, to maintain and enforce political power, often through violent or arbitrary means. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism or other harsh means of social control. In a police state the police are not subject to the rule of law and there is no meaningful distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

A government does not describe itself as a "police state". Instead, it is a description assigned to a regime by internal or external critics in response to the laws, policies and actions of that regime, and is often used pejoratively to describe the regime's stance on human rights, the social contract and similar matters.


I won't ask you to open your eyes, since you seen to be on a stance to advocate and defend the political elite, but Police State is a political reality here, just as in the US, UK, Italy and many other "democratic" governments in the world.

[edit on 29/4/06 by Echtelion]

[edit on 29/4/06 by Echtelion]




posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
And Deus Ex, I'm not into the word-for-word reply game, but you obviouslty never heard anything about the SECURITY CERTIFICATES, which are a direct violation of the Bill of Rights and Liberties and have been used in many occasions over the past few years to arrest without warrant and indefinitely detain some people, mainly Muslim immigrants and refugees.


Now, I have heard of security certificates. Can you tell me exactly how many times they have been used to detain or arrest people? I can think of maybe three cases. And, as much fun as stripping us of a national defence is, I'm not one for it.


This adding to issues of police brutality, i.e. the frequent beatings or killings on the streets by police agents in urban areas (that usually targets Blacks, prostitutes or homeless people, but not limited to these), the constant harassment, abductions and killings of indigenous peoples in Native reservations.


Now, that is just BS. Tell me how many people were killed by police or 'police agents' last year. It's under five, I believe, all investigated by the SIU, which really makes the whole 'police act with impunity' allegation utterly preposterous. I love the myth of constant police brutality in the West. Just shows how little people know about persecution. Visit Saudi Arabia or China, see if they have an SIU or even care if citizens get killed.



A police state is an authoritarian state which uses the police, especially secret police, to maintain and enforce political power, often through violent or arbitrary means.


Emphasis mine. I didn't see any protesters mowed down, and we do have our choice of (mostly liberal-leaning) political parties. We have no Gestapo, no KGB knocking on your doors and abducting us. It feels more like being trapped in Office Space than behind the Iron Curtain.

DE



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Now, I have heard of security certificates. Can you tell me exactly how many times they have been used to detain or arrest people? I can think of maybe three cases. And, as much fun as stripping us of a national defence is, I'm not one for it.


National defense from WHO??? If you really knew about security certificates, you would know that it gives the right to the government to arrest people without any warrant AND without any legitimate trial, which means no habeas corpus, and no obligations of the State (the prosecutor) to provide any proofs or evidence of its claims in court. i heard of at least 10 people from Ontario and Quebec who've been detained for 2 years or more without even knowing what were the charges against them. So much for national security... By defending that, you're exactly the same as these neocon Americans defending Guantanamo Bay.

I won't spend any extra second answering to conservative political zealots who can't even awknoledge the reality that people outthere are being beaten and arrested during public protests, and that it's been like that for years.

For the rest of ATSers, do your researches, people. Police state is there, and it's not a conspiracy theory...

[edit on 29/4/06 by Echtelion]



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Yes, people are beaten and arrested at public protests. This is usually the result of disorderly conduct, failing to disperse, resisting arrest, assault on a peace officer...of course, you see 'beating and murdering', I see people heaving rocks at police and resisting arrest.

As far as security certificates go, too bad. If CSIS has suspicions on a person, evidence isn't going to coem to light right away. I'd rather detain a person illegally than have them explode something like the CN tower.

I'm a moderate conservative, and like I said, I happen to spend a fair amount of time with ex, current, and prospective LEOs. We believe that the safety of others comes before personal freedoms. If you want to believe that Canada is a police state, go right ahead. I can't stop you. But it's perfectly within my rights to point out that I think you're wrong. Ten people arrested with security certificates in a country of thirty-two million doesn't mean the Gestapo are at your door.

DE



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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i know that this is a bit off topic, it kind of gets back to the stop check, but in my home town of regina it is illegal for the police to set up a stop check within three blocks of a bar going away from the bars. i always thought that it was a funny law. cant sit outside picking off drunks. i remember seeing an article where the police were going into texas bars and handing out public drunkeness tickets in the bar. if thats not an abuse of power i dont know what is.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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Dues Ex...



They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin


Also the Harris protests were started by the cops, so not all beatings during those protests were warrented. I was there, and saw it with me own eyes.

Though I basically agree with you, we aren't a police state...yet. We are, however, starting to slide down that slippery slope like the US and UK though....

As for the Security Certificates, there have already been unwarrented detainments of innocents. I lost contact with a close personal friend for over a half-a-year because his family decided it was a good idea to send their kids to Afghanistan to see where they came from, and some dickhead decided that was suspicious enough to put him in solitary confinement without any contact with a lawyer, family or friends for those six months.

Say no to US Lapdogism. They brought this on themselves.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Trudeau: Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed. But it is more important to keep law and order in the society than to worry about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of—
CBC reporter Tim Ralfe (interrupting): At any cost? How far would you go with that? How far would you extend that?
Trudeau: Well, just watch me.


The expression comes to mind as well, Sard, that it is better to be safe than sorry. I do agree that some lines need to be drawn, but I still think we're nowhere near as bad as the states, despite the fact that our violent crime rate is going through the roof. I suppose it says something that we haven't had any domestic terror attacks since '70 or so.

DE

PS- Trudeau was the best prime minister EVAR.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
Also the Harris protests were started by the cops, so not all beatings during those protests were warrented. I was there, and saw it with me own eyes

A Canadian version of COINTELPRO… Do you have any good links regarding this?

Thanks for the comments in this thread; I had never heard of Security Certificates before, All of this is very informative so far. :up”



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by sardion2000
Also the Harris protests were started by the cops, so not all beatings during those protests were warrented. I was there, and saw it with me own eyes

A Canadian version of COINTELPRO… Do you have any good links regarding this?

Thanks for the comments in this thread; I had never heard of Security Certificates before, All of this is very informative so far. :up”


Boy... that kind of secret service tactics was around since '70s! There are evidences that some of the FLQ's bombings and terrorist acts (that ended up as a justification for the Feds imposing Martial Law upon citizens in 1970) were perpetrated by RCMP undercover agents who infiltrated the terrorist group.

But it was known for a fact that undercover CSIS agents, disguised as "black blocs" did some violent actions during the Quebec summit of 2002, and it's documented (alright, I don't have these news articles on my computer but you will fing some stuff on that quite easily on the web). This kind of practice is very common in Western countries... very recently US anti-War groups have revealed they have been infiltrated by CIA agents, and in France, during the recent student strike, undercover agents from the government have been reported as doing acts of violence, both against police troops and protesters. There's plenty of other examples that I could tell you about but it's difficult for some of these to get any documented evidence on the web.

They use this tactic mainly to justify more repressive measures by the government, and to tarnish the public image of protesters.

P.S.: Just one bit I could add about Canada as being a Police state. I read in the papers about an activist, Yves Engler, who during last January's Federal elections, got arrested and detained for about 2 weeks just because he shouted slogans during a speech or Paul Martin, about Canada's involvement into Haiti's criminal regime. Only ten years ago, doing the same thing under same circumstances would only get somebody to be kicked out of the building by security agents (which is quite understandable to the least)... but to get arrested and detained for weeks??? This is the very thing that you only see under a totalitarian regime.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Okay on 420 pot people gathered at legislative buildings and other public places and smoked at not one event did any of the cops arrest anyone. This is because these activists beleive in orderly conduct and not damaging property and insulting police. I have attended these and other rallies and have never been arrested and the police have always just stood around and looked bored. Anti-Globalist protesters on the other hand have been known to get violent and roudy ripping down fences throwing and burning things graffitti etc. Cops in Canada are pretty slack and really don't do to much enforcing. If you want to protest in Canada be respectful, non-violant and non-abusive. Just because police are around doesn't mean they wikl arrest you just don't be assholes.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:38 PM
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No, Canada isn't.

I was quite fizzled in the a humorous way when I read this. Canada is Canada, though our defenses are up after the big time events in the USA, we still have open mindedness and rely on UN Security Council resolutions to guide us into aggressive measures, including internal security. Excepting and act against NATO Countries of course.

Dallas


[edit on 30-4-2006 by Dallas]



posted on May, 8 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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I am so glad to be a Canadian because we live in the land of the freer.




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