Is Canada a police state?

I live in Canada and have lived in numerous cities and let me tell you, the "illuminati" agenda, the military leaders, war mongers, oppressors in general have one up on the United States here in Canada, it is a police state, especially Ontario, which has its own Provincal Police... the OPP... which isn't anywhere else in Canada, ... masses of SWAT teams, THOUSANDS of cops .... hiring officers trained in different Provinces ..... Police is a brother everywhere, but in Canada its a different situation, it's US against them mentality ... guilty until proven innocent, shot and killed unarmed, profiled, harrassed for minor non-violent, non-life-threatening crimes... mental patients or handcapped people killed because of Police training... which gets them off the hook for being responsible... Canada can be a scary place if your not socially/politically correct... But you gotta love the land of the free, where you can talk about different ideals but can't do much more, considering we get harrassed and threatened for simply speaking.. Someone has their hands up bushes and harpers a$$

Here in the UK the Police are given powers to stop and search people, (becomming a police) state in my view... cant wait t0okick blair out of office... The Police here are in limbo.. so are Civil Right Groups to what powers the police actually have, weither or not it infringes citizenz hunams rights......as for Canadaians police state.... nope do not think so

Originally posted by Duzey
I just asked one of my more well-travelled co-workers and I have been assured that they do the same thing in Europe and Australia. It's not just us.

No, this is not exactly true. They do not do it in the Netherlands, France and Spain that I know of. In Spain, where I live now, at times they are looking for a specific individual or individuals in a certain area, and there will be a roadblock with a 100% check rate. But, the check consists only of looking at the driver and passengers, and matching them to the photo or descriptions of the individuals they are looking for. You are signalled to stop, they look at you and in the car, and if satisfied they wave you through. I certainly do not feel that my privacy is invaded for that, because these things are neccessary at times. I do oppose random roadblocks to stop cars just to get identities from people to look for terrorists without due cause.

If they start doing that in Europe, I´m moving to NewFoundland. Cold, but free.

Canada allows citizens to own as many guns and as much ammo as they want. By definition, this should count them out as a police state.

However, they are one step closer to becoming a police state than the US: they have socialized medicine, the best way to rear-end your public when they need you the most. It takes three months to get into the doctor if you get the flu or a cold or something. Health care really doesn't cost a whole lot less because they make up for the cost through taxes.

I would oppose random stops to look for terrorists too. How can you tell if someone's a terrorist just by looking at them?

I still have no problem with the police running roadchecks to check for drunk drivers. And neither does Newfoundland, where they also have road checks for drunk drivers. You may have to pick another province to move to, although the Newfs are great fun to be around.

PS. I could walk down the street and be in to see a doctor within 45 minutes. And then I could decide I wanted a second opinion, go to another doctors clinic and see them within 45 minutes. And so on, and so on......

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
Canada allows citizens to own as many guns and as much ammo as they want. By definition, this should count them out as a police state.

As many guns...as long as they follow a LOT of rules. Ammo selection is generally pretty limited as well.

Link

Now, that's fairly accurate. Generally, if it looks like anything military, you've got troubles. Of course, a lot of old Soviet gear has come in under the radar, but it still falls under the 5-round-rule.

DE

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
However, they are one step closer to becoming a police state than the US: they have socialized medicine

Forgive my lack of understanding, but what does a socialized medical program have to do with a police state? Also there are private hospitals (they are building a new one in my town), so if you don't want to wait, go to one of those.

also fairly interesting how Mr. Harper said we can no longer show our flag covered coffins... for the families sake... u know... u wouldn't want your country to know you died for it, EH?... hahahaha how Canadian we've become...

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
It takes three months to get into the doctor if you get the flu or a cold or something. Health care really doesn't cost a whole lot less because they make up for the cost through taxes.

Yeah we make it up through taxes, but if I have a family member who is in need of cancer treatment (which I have twice) I am not paying for it the rest of my life. In regards to waiting 3 months to see a doctor, I made an appointment to see my physician just the other day and he could see me in less than 48 hours. If I went to outpatients right now I would probably see a doctor within 2 hours.

My question is this:

Is this still a thread about Canada being a police state or a thread to take backhanded comments at our country? Im seeing some comments that are doing nothing for this thread.

Originally posted by DeusEx
panda.com...

According to the Canada National Firearms Association, "pepper spray is legal if it is intended for use on vicious animals, and is a prohibited weapon if intended for use on vicious humans.

I´m on the floor again...

Anything intended for use against vicious humans (or that look like they might be) are generally against the law in Canada. In fact, you can be charged for at the very least assault and up to murder for defending yourself, another, or property. For some reason, the better part of Canadians believe that the police will solve all their problems at the ring of a bell. Me, personally, I like the police. A lot. I have a lot of associates who are, were, or are going to be police officers. But there isn't a thing they can do if you're in trouble RIGHT THEN. By the time the police arrive, odds are the thieves have jacked your stuff, or raped you, or you're bleeding all over the place. We, as citizens are not PERMITTED to defend ourselves by law. You have a fifty fifty chance of going to jail if you do. That smacks of police state, even if nothing else does.

/rant

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
We, as citizens are not PERMITTED to defend ourselves by law. You have a fifty fifty chance of going to jail if you do. That smacks of police state, even if nothing else does.

Kill or hurt someone who enters your home illegally in Europe, and you will definitly go to jail for a long time. Examples are abundant where someone hits a burglar over the head and they and not the burglar go to jail.

Bit weird, maybe someone who knows the law can explain this.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by HardToGet]

why is ultra enforcement of the the laws we have here authoritarion?
all it means is that, unlike 85% of America, they give a damn about the laws.
Canadians also tend to follow them.
and Canadians also tend to be nicer people. i wouldn't be suprised if Canada has less murders in their whole country than America does in one single major city.
Japan only get about 15-20 murders a year. OMG! the people are nice! both the cops and citizens obey the law! POLICE STATES!

For the record, last year Toronto, a city of two million, had eighty two homicides. We are less likely to be violent, yes, but the home invasions of late have shown that simply something to be taken advantage of by others.

en.wikipedia.org...

Looking this up has resulted in the assumption that Europe and Canada have an excessive burden on teh duty to retreat...as in, let them take your stuff or whatnot. Unfortunately, 'whatnot' may end up being 'rape or murder you', but since crime rates are so low...the state doesn't care.

DE

Originally posted by dnero6911
I live in Canada and have lived in numerous cities and let me tell you, ... mental patients or handcapped people killed because of Police training... which gets them off the hook for being responsible... Canada can be a scary place if your not socially/politically correct... But you gotta love the land of the free, where you can talk about different ideals but can't do much more, considering we get harrassed and threatened for simply speaking.. Someone has their hands up bushes and harpers a$$

Gee man I was hanging on every syllable in your post nodding my head in agreement until the last line where I saw my reality being the opposite of yours ... see where I live in Toronto if you ARE conservative then you get treated like dirt because the LPC owns Toronto.

Otherwise thanks for saying the truth.

Thanks for the comments, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in thinking something isn't right.

Originally posted by HardToGet
No, this is not exactly true. They do not do it in the Netherlands, France and Spain that I know of.

Thanks, hardtoget, I can also confirm that the Republic of China does not do any random road check (unless they’re looking for someone) and cannot stop your vehicle without probable cause, and that’s less than 20 years after Martial Law!

Does anyone have a comment on David Icke’s treatment when he went to Canada. Why the censorship?

And is Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel still being held in a canadian prisons without reason? (another example of things that can’t be said, even in Canada)

well think about it this david icke is a famouse conspiracy nut so canadian authorities will keep a closer eye on him than they would a normal border crosser.

Originally posted by DeusEx
We're not authoritarian, we're bureaucratic. The abundance of rules and laws (most of which seem nonsensical) demands a heavy police presence to back them up. Canadians have a great deal of faith in our lawgivers, if not our lawmakers.

DE

Bureaucratic IS being authoritarian. It is just another form of authoritarianism, just military dictatroship or corporate rule. It is the notion of stucturing intervention, control and policy-making through a range of institutional procedures which are fundamentally exclusive and restrictive, so that the common citizen does not have a word to say on the decision-making process. If I apply your reasoning to USSR, then the politbureau, and the Soviet Union as a whole, was not authoritarian... just extremely bureaucratic. You make some strange distinctions, pal!

But yes, I do believe Canada has become a Police State. Just look at all the way law enforcement and politicians use the perversions of the Law to condemn, imprison or deport people who have'nt done anything wrong. And take this for a fact, everybody... Canada is perhaps the one and only Western "democracy" to ever have used martial law against its population in times of peace.

And who are the "we" you're referring to? Can't you even make a difference between citizens and political structures? Even if the government's *supposed* to be subordinated to us by some abstract consitutional principle, that doesn't mean that "we" are the government. There's a feature that's very common here in this country... that many people can't even make a difference between their civil rights/liberties and the Law, and between the State and society. Obviously it's explainable by a poor education on the system and how it works, but it's a feature that sadly present under totalitarian regimes with heavy government propaganda.

And yes, I also am a passport-carrying Canadian. But never I will associate myself with that tyrannic government.

[edit on 29/4/06 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by Echtelion

And yes, I also am a passport-carrying Canadian. But never I will associate myself with that tyrannic government.

I will take the assumption you are an American, if not correct me. If you consider the Canadian government tyrannic, I am curious to see what you would consider the American government to be? We talk of police doing random spot checks as a violation of basic human rights in order for the safety of others. Some members in this thread do not see this as an even trade off. So with that, exactly what would you consider the Patriot Act? If there was ever an extreme example of basic human rights being removed in order for the protection of others, this is it.

The government used 9/11 as a scapegoat for all their problems and in the wake of it had the citizens willingly turn over some of their basic rights. Did Canada remove rights from their citizens?

No we have not. We provide a health care system for the rich and poor alike, can the poor in the US say they can go to the hospital and recieve the care they deserve? I am happy to fork over tax dollars in order to save another life that normally would not beable to afford it.

Yet we are a country run by tyrants.

Originally posted by Echtelion
It is the notion of stucturing intervention, control and policy-making through a range of institutional procedures which are fundamentally exclusive and restrictive, so that the common citizen does not have a word to say on the decision-making process.

en.wikipedia.org...

You're blowing things out of proportion. Just because you have to do your bodyweight in forms to complete your taxes does not mean that Revenue Canada is run by a number of tiny Stalins. Canada loves its paperwork, its rules and laws. It's more like a post office run amok than what you're describing. Near the end of the above post, there is the following:

Even a non-degenerated bureaucracy can be affected by common problems:

* Overspecialisation, making individual officials not aware of larger consequences of their actions
* Rigidity and inertia of procedures, making decision-making slow or even impossible when facing some unusual case, and similarly delaying change, evolution and adaptation of old procedures to new circumstances;
* A phenomenon of group thinking - zealotry, loyalty and lack of critical thinking regarding the organisation which is perfect and always correct by definition, making the organisation unable to change and realise its own mistakes and limitations;
* A phenomenon of Catch-22 (named after a famous book by Joseph Heller) - as bureaucracy creates more and more rules and procedures, their complexity raises and coordination diminishes, facilitating creation of contradictory rules

We are affected by all of the above, yet I don't see police executing people in the streets, go figure.

But yes, I do believe Canada has become a Police State. Just look at all the way law enforcement and politicians use the perversions of the Law to condemn, imprison or deport people who have'nt done anything wrong.

Anything wrong in your opinion. Even figuring out your opinion, the process of law is run by human beings, and human beings make mistakes. Nature of the best. So, unless you want the abscence of rule of law, you're stuck.

Canada is perhaps the one and only Western "democracy" to ever have used martial law against its population in times of peace.

It's also the only western democracy that had a piece of it bigger than France almost up in rebellion. And for the record, we aren't the only ones to use armed forces to quell civil disobedience.

And who are the "we" you're referring to? Can't you even make a difference between citizens and political structures?

Citizens comprise political structures. I am a citizen, and I made a difference. I voted Harper. Don't that beat all?

DE

[edit on 29-4-2006 by DeusEx]