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Is Canada a police state?

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posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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For the longest time I thought it was just me, then this week I was watching a David Icke lecture and he said the exact same thing… that is Canada is very authoritarian I read up a bit on Icke, and it turns out he was treated very badly when he went there.

For me, I’ve definitely noticed the over-abundance of traffic police. I was living in BC where they have a huge insurance corporations monopoly (ICBC) pretty much married with the local police enforcement who are constantly setting up road blocks to stop evil speeders.

The treatment at Canadian Customs (airport) post-911 is simply atrocious, it seems they were looking at everyone’s bag, and taking out very unlikely suspect for further searches, (elderly)

There's also the random road blocks, purpoted to be to stop "drunk drivers" but it seems to me it's a bit more than that, do they really need to see your insurance to determine if your drunk or not?

I’d like to hear from people who have lived outside Canada (especially Europe) and who has visited or lived in Canada and what are your opinions on this. Is Canada more authoritarian than other countries?

[edit on 28/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]




posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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We're not authoritarian, we're bureaucratic. The abundance of rules and laws (most of which seem nonsensical) demands a heavy police presence to back them up. Canadians have a great deal of faith in our lawgivers, if not our lawmakers.

DE



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 09:49 AM
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I don't believe somebody who briefly visits our country for a short period of time is really in a position to comment on how authoritarian we are.



There's also the random road blocks, purpoted to be to stop "drunk drivers" but it seems to me it's a bit more than that, do they really need to see your insurance to determine if your drunk or not?


Every drunk driver they find through this method is possibly a family saved from a tragedy. Your lack of concern for the safety of motorists and innocent bystanders concerns me, Driving under the influence is a serious offense and I am all for roadblocks for it.



The treatment at Canadian Customs (airport) post-911 is simply atrocious, it seems they were looking at everyone’s bag, and taking out very unlikely suspect for further searches, (elderly)


Should they of focused on a certain race like the US did?

I like the fact that here in Canada we can walk down the street and feel comfortable. Watch a Canadian news broadcast compared to a US news broadcast and watch the difference you will see. Ours will be filled with humanitarian stories while the US is being polluted with another murder or terrorist watch.

I wish you to elaborate alittle more on your comments, and explain how things would be better if our roads or airports were more open. The US complains our borders are a joke, and now we are being told its too tight.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 09:54 AM
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I moved from the USA to BC, and in comparison, there are hardly any police here. By far Ohio and Texas have the most police presence on their highways. When I was riding with my ex through Ohio there were police every 5 miles doing the famous loop on the freeway. We ran from New Jersey to Columbus for 2 weeks every other day.

I've mentioned to my family, that there needs to be more police here doing their job, as my doors get blowed off everyday, many times. Aggresive drivers and drunk drivers are major hazards to the rest of the population. If you need to speed, leave earlier.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
I like the fact that here in Canada we can walk down the street and feel comfortable.


I do not understand this. What is Canada afraid of that security needs to be this high? Officially Al-Qaeda has no beef with Canada has it?

I personally would be very uncomfortable living in an environment where you can be randomly stopped by Police, and there is a 100% check on the borders.

The point is security does not stop at the border, and security is very easily used as a method of getting invasive control over the population under a fake terror banner.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by HardToGet
I do not understand this. What is Canada afraid of that security needs to be this high? Officially Al-Qaeda has no beef with Canada has it?


Who is saying how high our security is? At every corner I am being reminded by the American media that our border control, ports and security all together is a complete joke.


Originally posted by HardToGet
I personally would be very uncomfortable living in an environment where you can be randomly stopped by Police, and there is a 100% check on the borders.


You are not randomly stopped for no reason. We are talking of random spot checks, which I will add I rarely see, to determine whether or not a driver is fully licensed and insured along with in the correct state of mind to be operating a vehicle. How is this a bad thing? If your child was playing along the side of a road, wouldn't you want to know the drivers coming along are conscious and behind the wheel legally?


Originally posted by HardToGet
The point is security does not stop at the border, and security is very easily used as a method of getting invasive control over the population under a fake terror banner.


Exactly! This is what the American government has been doing, throw a color code on the alert and have everybody in a panic. With this everybody is more willing to toss away their rights in order for protection. Its the US that is under the Patriot Act. I have never seen Canada throw any rights away since 9/11.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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Thanks for your comments DeusEX


Originally posted by chissler
Driving under the influence is a serious offense and I am all for roadblocks for it.

But at what point does it become an impediment to personal freedom? And why are they checking insurance papers, aren’t they looking for dunk drivers? That’s why I said there’s more to it than that. They usually ask for license and insurance, then the usual “have you been drinking tonight?” They take a look around the car, asks how many people are riding with you. Then they ask if you are carrying any alcohol, which gives them permission to search your car if they want. I see this as an impediment on personal freedom. I’m really not sure these roadblocks have anything to do with looking for Drunk Drivers.


I like the fact that here in Canada we can walk down the street and feel comfortable.

That still isn’t that hard to find. Canada is hardly unique in that aspect.


Watch a Canadian news broadcast compared to a US news broadcast and watch the difference you will see.

That’s why I asked for a more Europeans perspective. Many Canadians compare themselves to the US, and that’s it. That’s probably why most think the Health care system is so good.


The US complains our borders are a joke, and now we are being told its too tight.

The US seems to want to shift the blame on that one. The policy makers will discuss anything except what really happened.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 10:57 AM
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Ok..


Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

But at what point does it become an impediment to personal freedom? And why are they checking insurance papers, aren’t they looking for dunk drivers? That’s why I said there’s more to it than that. They usually ask for license and insurance, then the usual “have you been drinking tonight?” They take a look around the car, asks how many people are riding with you. Then they ask if you are carrying any alcohol, which gives them permission to search your car if they want. I see this as an impediment on personal freedom. I’m really not sure these roadblocks have anything to do with looking for Drunk Drivers.


I believe it to be procedure for the police to ask for License and Insurance at every stop, so its hardly an argument to make there. As for the "Are you drinking tonight sir?" and the right to search your vehicle, Well if you haven't been drinking your simply going to answer "No!" to the question and then they have no right to check.

They can give you all the breathilizers they wish, if your innocent what are they going to do?


Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I see this as an impediment on personal freedom


May I ask how you feel about the Patriot Act?


Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Many Canadians compare themselves to the US, and that’s it. That’s probably why most think the Health care system is so good.


Are you implying that our Health Care system is not? If so please elaborate. I would much rather visit a hospital in Canada than US. That is unless your making a 6 or 7 figure income of course.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...



Canada has 182 police officers per 100,000 people. That is a substantially lower rate than most developed countries with only Japan and Sweden having so few police officers. The United States has 243 per 100,000 and Germany 290. Canada's national police force is the RCMP which is the main police force in Canada's north and rural areas outside of Quebec, Ontario, and Newfoundland. Those three provinces have their own provincial police forces. Major cities also have their own police forces.

Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island have the fewest police per capita with 1.4 officers per 1000 people in Newfoundland and 1.5 in PEI. The other eight provinces fall between 1.7 and 2.0 per thousand with Ontario having the most at 2.0.


Yeah it sure sounds like we have a police state....


Try going to France and see just how many officers are just hanging out in groups of 10-12 on quite a few street corners.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by sardion2000]



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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Hey all

I live in Canada and I can easily say that most if not everything in this post in exaggerated. Two points I want to touch on are the comment about R.I.D.E. programs (that's what they are called when there are road blocks looking for the impaired) As for the comment about asking for insurence that is standard procedure and its agaist the law to drive without it. "License and proof of insurence, Please" is a more than fair question. What happens to the person who is smoked by a drunk driver that is not insured? Who pay's for that?
That's like saying why do they need my license when they are looking to see if I'm drunk?
I know we can't talk about these things and I'm sorry to the mods if I break any rules but I have been lets say caught by police at rallies and parties with lets say a form of plant. How many day's have I been in jail? Absolulty ZERO. Anyone who is that affraid of police in Canada obviosly has reason to be!
They have been great to me and the people I know, and I only wish they had a road block set up 4 years ago when a friend of mine tried to drive home after a party completely drunk and killed a town firefighter and his two children 2 and 4.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
Well if you haven't been drinking your simply going to answer "No!" to the question and then they have no right to check.

Thanks, I didn’t know that, that’s good to know. I don’t think that’s exactly common knowledge amongst Canadians though, but that’s just a guess. I still don’t see it as a good thing, and using people emotion (Drunk Driving) is a good way for them to get what they want. Point is, it makes me very uncomfortable, and I never think it’s a good experience to go through a road block.


May I ask how you feel about the Patriot Act?

All I heard about it was from Alex Jones, so I guess, no I don’t know much about it. (I’ve never looked into it beyond that)


Are you implying that our Health Care system is not?

Compare to the US mess I’m sure it is, but again I’d like to know more from Europe or Asia. (Didn’t Mulroney prefer US hospitals?)

On a side note: I remember “Mothers against Drunk Driving” coming to my high school and showing us their snuff film. My experience from it was not good, (Similar to when I watched the Nick Berg video) And despite all the footage, it didn’t make me affraid of alcohol, it did however make me terribly scared of cars, those things themselves are extremely dangerous! (alcohol or no alcohol)



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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Also, I wanted to note that asking for insurance when getting stopped by the cops is standard procedure in just about every country in the west.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:22 AM
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When the police ask for your licence and registration, they are checking for two things:

Do you have a valid licence?
Do you have valid insurance?

If I can turn on the local radio station to find out where the the roadblocks are, that kind of makes it non-police state-like.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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Compare to the US mess I’m sure it is, but again I’d like to know more from Europe or Asia. (Didn’t Mulroney prefer US hospitals?)


Im not sure if he did, but if he did lets take a look at how many figures are in his annual income? That might explain it.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
When the police ask for your licence and registration, they are checking for two things:

The point is they are stopping you, are people in other “free” countries being stopped and asked for their papers randomly? The “Drunk Driving” thing is a pretext. (a means to an end, not an end to itself)

Before they couldn't just randomly stop you and check on you, now they can.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
to find out where the the roadblocks are, that kind of makes it non-police state-like.

Ya, they even annonce it at "last call" in bars, really clever this program. Maybe it's not doing what it's met to be doing.


Originally posted by sardion2000
Try going to France and see just how many officers are just hanging out in groups of 10-12 on quite a few street corners.

Would you happen to know if they do random paper check in France?


[edit on 28/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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The only reason to be defensive here is if you have something to hide?

Why such aggression against a simple task being carried out by our police? I have been stopped at these before, it does slow down traffic but it is for a good reason. People who should not be on the road need to be weeded out.

I have never seen cars actually being pulled over on these, the cops are set up on the road and you simply pass through the check. Your stopped for a few seconds as they check your information, along with inspection and plates as well probably. Then you move on with your day as if nothing happened, knowing a few people who should not be on the road, will not be tomorrow.

May I ask how old you are ConspiracyNut?



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
The only reason to be defensive here is if you have something to hide?

I believe these are the same arguments used by supporters of the Patriot Acts.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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I just asked one of my more well-travelled co-workers and I have been assured that they do the same thing in Europe and Australia. It's not just us.

My sympathy is reserved for the police officers who get hit by drunks and people with warrants trying to evade the roadblocks.



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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In Australia, there are laws that allow for a police officer to stop any driver and perform a random breath test, without needing any reason. In addition, in Victoria, any driver can be required to perform a random saliva test for a prescribed illicit drug (i.e. methylampetamine and cannabis).
Source: en.wikipedia.org...


That’s confirmed for Australia, and even worse there. And everyone on this thread currently seems to believe its worth it? The tradeoff is acceptable to everyone?



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