Minutemen Gain Mainstream Appeal

Thank you for your question, police_officer399. I will answer how I view it, and then I will respectfully bow out of the conversation. I feel that if I introduce even the simple notion of caring for other human beings, that it attracts the elements of animosity that this thread does not deserve. I truly do believe that this issue needs to be discussed. But perhaps, it might be better if other people join in the conversation and bring it to its vital solution.

So, here is my answer. I believe that all human beings deserve respect. I would expect the same from anyone else. They may not like what I do. Or the things I say. But, at least someone else would at least bestow me the recognition of being a human being. Undocumented workers are human beings. And yes, they broke the law. But not because their government forced them to. Not because our government solely forced them to. And not because the Mexican government solely forced them to. What forced them to cross the border belongs to a plethora of historical, political and economic influences equally to blame on bad foreign and domestic policy that the present administration is unwilling or unable to address.

The Minutemen at least expose that one fatal flaw. And they exploited that fact by creating a scapegoat for people to take their anger out on: undocumented workers.

Undocumented workers are only faulted for finding a job to feed their families and seeking a better quality of life than they ever had. A hostile climate exists since 9/11 against anything "foreign". Add to that the rampant corruption of the economic system by powers bigger than any one individual, everyday citizens are growing less patient and more furious against anything that also prevents them from having that same quality of life.

Let's face it here. There are some Americans who view undocumented workers in the same light as terrorists. They are foreign. Their numbers are ambiguously large. And, they are viewed pretty much as a threat to the American social order. Our government is viewed in a harsh light because as they cannot locate Osama bin Ladin and cannot solve illegal immigration. The people who are mad about it expect a simple solution from which there is none.

The politicians as well as the media, let alone the dignitaries in society today do not offer any sense of leadership towards alleviating the utter bitterness and anger that came out of 9/11. The danger is that any group seen as taking a stand against "invaders foreign and domestic" will mirror an outlet for fury by people who cannot resolve their issues concerning national security, terrorism and mutliculturalism on their own.

And sadly enough, because no ample solution exists, undocumented workers become the site of unquenched and unbridled hostility. Unfortunately, it has become socially acceptable to use any derogatory comment to deride illegal immigrants. With no one to correct this behavior, it will go on without remorse. However, this animus toward other groups of people has already escalated. There are countless stories of unmitigated aggression against illegal immigrants on the border. But no one cares, because of the larger goal of exacting revenge in the name of justice continues to stand.

The Minutemen, no matter how they position themselves, represent a symbol of revenge and anger. They use that knowledge to their best advantage. They brand a scapegoat. They create a doctrine. And then, they use it as a wedge issue pretty much in the same way that politicians use similar subject matter to divide America. Since undocumented workers represent people from many different lands, its outward connection to race is "vague". But the sentiment is still there because illegal immigration did not acheive a human face until undocumented workers from South America were targeted.

And now, no one blames the illegal workers from other countries who inhabit here. A "face" only resonates with the issue. And what do you hear? Mexicans. Mexico. Illegals. Latins. South America.

You don't hear Irish. Soviet Union. Georgian or Canadian. Mexico is always resonant. Why is that? If it is not race or nationalism, what exactly is it then? Politics? Cover it up if you like. But it focuses on one thing, if you find out what it is.

This "wedge issue" has a human cost: empathy, civility, humanity and common sense. When people begin to strike out in anger between each other, they forget these things and solely focus on going for the jugular.

I'm glad in a way that other posters are able to see this type of aggression on this thread. And I also hope that it gives those same people enough pause to think clearly and logically about sponsoring groups that harness hate and anger--in one form or another.




[edit on 5-5-2006 by ceci2006]

The reason is that most illegal aliens in USA are From Latin america... others are LEGAL immigrants. I for once can't understand why USA has let the situation in it's southern border deteriorate into a state it is.

My opinion is that if a person enters a country (any country) without legal approval he/she is a criminal and should be treated as one, is this basic international principle so hard to understand?

Originally posted by police_officer339
I have no idea as to the count, but I have arrested certainly hundreds of poeple over the years, and yes they all deserve respect. It is very difficult when we are talking pedophiles, rapists, murderers, yet even the criminals are human and I am not their judge. I give them all basic respect.
Illegal Aliens? No I do not like it, but lets face it, it's not murder, not rape, heck not even a violent crime. So why the unmitigated animosity?
They have broken the law, yes, but in the scheme of things, it is not "bad" enough to cause this sort of reaction.

PO339, I think I understand your concept of respect. Life has taught me that most things are not merely a black and white issue. I have a (bad?) habit of wondering what life has been like for the underdog.

But in the end, the need for justice (revenge?) prevails.

Most of the ii's aren't flagrant perps. But they are weakening our entire system. It's a blessing that we have a nation that so many are risking everything to participate in. I can understand the reasoning of the Minutemen, and I hope that the gov't finally gets the picture that the majority of Americans want some action here.

But, as I'm sure you know, a gun plus an attitude equals problems. I'm aware of that. Knowing that, I still stand by these guys, if for no other reason than nobody else is doing anything about the problem.

from ceci
And now, no one blames the illegal workers from other countries who inhabit here. A "face" only resonates with the issue. And what do you hear? Mexicans. Mexico. Illegals. Latins. South America.

You don't hear Irish. Soviet Union. Georgian or Canadian. Mexico is always resonant. Why is that? If it is not race or nationalism, what exactly is it then? Politics? Cover it up if you like. But it focuses on one thing, if you find out what it is.

Maybe it's not politics. Maybe it's just illegal immigration, and all the social costs that go along with that.

I'll probably get branded a racist as well but I have yet to actually state my position on the minutemen and I think, given the current protests, it's a relevant discussion. Ever since we started hearing of the Minutemen there've been accusations of racism thrown at them from all angles but we have yet to actually be confronted with evidence supporting these outlandish claims. The Minutemen are using our constitution as a real living document and not just some icon painted on a wall, they're enacting the inalienable rights of all American citizens.

Our right to bear arms and our right to form groups such as this were created to protect the country from a corrupt an ineffective government and I doubt many here would argue in favor of the government's actions in regards to illegal immigration.

Let's face the facts here WE NEED THE MINUTEMEN, at least until our governments step up to the bat and take action themselves. It's foolish to suggest that we leave the border patrol to official organisaitons, they have so far done little or no good and it's rediculous to think they will do a better job. Official organisations are run by our officially bloated federal government which has proven itself time and again to be completely impotent when it comes to effective action.

How many times a day do we hear about the War on Terror? How many times have we heard politicians babble on about the need for "increased security"? How many times have we seen them change the topic when confronted with the fact that our entire southern boarder is wide open to the enitre planet???

As an American I'm frankly sick of the state of our southern boarders. I'm tired of hearing comfortable people make comfortable accusations of racism against anyone willing to step out of their comfort zone and take action. The Minutemen are not a racist organisation, all accusations to that effect are based off of personal opinion, bandwagoning and an attempt by government organisations to maintain their rule over us. I'm tired of hearing the same old excuses. If you're not willing to take action to defend your home and family then don't try to degrade the efforts of someone who is willing to take action.

Until we have evidence that the Minutemen are lynching mexican families, passing out hate leaflets, burning symbols, killing border crossers, or committing unlawful acts of hate in any way then any accusations of racism or the like are no more than slander.



I made the graphic so feel free to use it

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I'll probably get branded a racist as well but I have yet to actually state my position on the minutemen and I think, given the current protests, it's a relevant discussion. Ever since we started hearing of the Minutemen there've been accusations of racism thrown at them from all angles but we have yet to actually be confronted with evidence supporting these outlandish claims.

Shadow there is only one reason why so many are trying to make this a racial issue and that is without the race card they know they have nothing they can argue about.

This is right versus wrong or legal versus illegal, yet they refuse to accept that because they know they would loose each and every argument simply because right/legal will always win as compared to wrong/illegal.

The "minutemen" :

beer guzzling rednecks with fallen teeth blaming a bunch of fruit pickers for the shaft they are getting from GW and his buddies. Brownshirts in America. Never thought I'd see them. Oh, and the token black guy or token Mexican doesn't impress me by the way.

The fact is , if you're an American adult white, black, asian whatever it is your obligation to now join a militia. The MinuteMen are a good place to start. I will be in Texas in July for a week and will donate my time to their cause. Go to the Minuteman website they make their Standard Operating Procedures available on-line. They are there to work in conjuction with local authorities and border patrol...nothing more. Their real fear is that a renegade will get into their fold and use deadly force to discredit their efforts. What will you say to your child or grandchild down the road when they ask what you were doing when the Republic fell ?

Some standard answers you can use:
1. I was playing Grand Theft Auto
2. I was on ATS defending fascism
3. I was trying to win a car on Oprah
4. I was eating Cheetos and watching porn
5. I was trying to peddle hoodia on-line

Originally posted by desert rat
Its all over the internet the Minutemen are backed by groups such as the KKK, nazis, skinheads, white sumpremacist groups and their ilk.

Its been my experience if enough people start yakking about something, its usually true.


For this, I cannot support the Minutemen. Nor would I trust them farther than I could toss a fat mexican north over the border.

So if a group like the KKK likes the Minutemen, the minutemen should just close up shop and go home? I guess if the KKK members frequent a particular store or restaurant, the owners have to close up and go home. I guess organizations would be pretty easy to be closed down if that were some sort of law then someone could pretend to be from such a group and declare their approval for the organization to force an organization to close down.

desert rat has failed to substansiate any of the claims he has made and I for one am still waiting for him to provide proof of what he has posted!

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by desert rat
Its all over the internet the Minutemen are backed by groups such as the KKK, nazis, skinheads, white sumpremacist groups and their ilk.

Its been my experience if enough people start yakking about something, its usually true.


For this, I cannot support the Minutemen. Nor would I trust them farther than I could toss a fat mexican north over the border.

So if a group like the KKK likes the Minutemen, the minutemen should just close up shop and go home? I guess if the KKK members frequent a particular store or restaurant, the owners have to close up and go home. I guess organizations would be pretty easy to be closed down if that were some sort of law then someone could pretend to be from such a group and declare their approval for the organization to force an organization to close down.

Good points.

desert rat has failed to substansiate any of the claims he has made and I for one am still waiting for him to provide proof of what he has posted!

Don't hold your breath. He won't....he can't.

Its been my experience if enough people start yakking about something, its usually true.

Round about December 25, everybody's talking about a fat jolly guy that will come down the chimney bearing gifts. Must be true, eh?