US paranoia causes cultural chilling effects due to travel restrictions

My ancestor's didn't build this nation on some other nation's dime. So if rebuilding is the name of the game, let's knuckle under and get to it. The Buck has to stop somewhere.

So are you Irish, Chinese, what are you?

The Wild West was conquered (from the natives) by the use of the rail road which was built by Chinese slabor, New York was built by the Irish, the coal was mined by Eastern European slbor, etc.

Just making sure which end of the American Dream you on, 'cause I know all about it.

America, made in China, get with it.

Some Irish yes, my ancestry goes back to the Mayflower, if you must know. The Chinese you speak of, are every bit as American as I am. Where do your allegiance's lie?

Oh, forgot. My great grandmother was a princess of the Lummi tribe. Great Northwest. I Love America!

[edit on 30-4-2006 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

Some Irish yes, my ancestry goes back to the Mayflower, if you must know.

Well what do you know, my wife is Irish/Italian Catholic.

The Chinese you speak of, are every bit as American as I am.

The Chinese I speak of were lured into slabor with false promises. "Once upon a time in China" with Jet Lee portraits that very clearly.

Where do your allegiance's lie?

With liberty and justice for all. That implies common sense and basic logic, not blind patriotic ranting, and definitely not forcing our values on anybody else.

That's were my allegiances lie, and our very constitution makes a very clear case to support it.

Those "false Promises" have turned out to be the most valuable commodity on Earth, American Citizenship.

Many would give all to have a shot at it. They bought that chance with everything they had, as did all American pioneer's!

Those "false Promises" have turned out to be the most valuable commodity on Earth, American Citizenship.

Many would give all to have a shot at it. They bought that chance with everything they had, as did all American pioneer's!

Are you a Confederate? You must be to think that working people to death and lining the path of the American dream with their bodies is the "most valuable commodity on Earth".

We have fought the war over it once, the Union won, get with it.

If you believe that "Give us your retched, your sick and your poor" means it's the right to work them to death, I will disagree with you.

Where you live do you have Mexican slabor slaving away to keep the economy going so you can spread nonsense like that?

You are either heavily misguided, or you're pro-slavery, it's as simple as that.

Oh by the way, do to historically unprecedented immigration levels from US to Canada, now Canada requires US applicants to put up 200K to secure citizenship, and that is because they actually have social services.

Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

I just love it when people try and convince you how much you need them and their money, who really need's who in this scenario?

If China decides to call in their US debt you may want to reconsider that statement.

Hmm, well if CHina called in their treasuy notes then, their economy would go bankrupt as well. Both economi3es are now interdependent on each other. So a moot point.

As for going to America, I hvae never had a problem at all. I travel their at least once a year as well as other countries.
We all know what prima donna's musicians are artists can be - LOL - I doubt they were the innocent party they make themselves out to be, no dubt they got in someones face.

Do you go there on holiday or to work? I suspect it's the former.

If the latter, do you already have a visa? Or have you had to go through the process they're going through?

You can call musicians prima donnas if you like. I'm a musician, and I know I just don't like being treated like cattle by a bunch of rednecks.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Those "false Promises" have turned out to be the most valuable commodity on Earth, American Citizenship.

Many would give all to have a shot at it. They bought that chance with everything they had, as did all American pioneer's!

Oh yeah, the US is the greatest country in the world, and everyone wants to live there and fulfil the American Dream.

America's rags-to-riches dream an illusion: study

By Alister Bull

04/27/06 -- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhere in the world, according to a new study published on Wednesday.

The likelihood that a child born into a poor family will make it into the top five percent is just one percent, according to "Understanding Mobility in America", a study by economist Tom Hertz from American University.

By contrast, a child born rich had a 22 percent chance of being rich as an adult, he said.

"In other words, the chances of getting rich are about 20 times higher if you are born rich than if you are born in a low-income family," he told an audience at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank sponsoring the work.

He also found the United States had one of the lowest levels of inter-generational mobility in the wealthy world, on a par with Britain but way behind most of Europe.

"Consider a rich and poor family in the United States and a similar pair of families in Denmark, and ask how much of the difference in the parents' incomes would be transmitted, on average, to their grandchildren," Hertz said.

"In the United States this would be 22 percent; in Denmark it would be two percent," he said.

So... actually, Denmark is a better place than the US to fulfil the American Dream. How funny.

Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Those "false Promises" have turned out to be the most valuable commodity on Earth, American Citizenship.

Many would give all to have a shot at it. They bought that chance with everything they had, as did all American pioneer's!

Oh yeah, the US is the greatest country in the world, and everyone wants to live there and fulfil the American Dream.

America's rags-to-riches dream an illusion: study

By Alister Bull

04/27/06 -- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhere in the world, according to a new study published on Wednesday.

The likelihood that a child born into a poor family will make it into the top five percent is just one percent, according to "Understanding Mobility in America", a study by economist Tom Hertz from American University.

By contrast, a child born rich had a 22 percent chance of being rich as an adult, he said.

"In other words, the chances of getting rich are about 20 times higher if you are born rich than if you are born in a low-income family," he told an audience at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank sponsoring the work.

He also found the United States had one of the lowest levels of inter-generational mobility in the wealthy world, on a par with Britain but way behind most of Europe.

"Consider a rich and poor family in the United States and a similar pair of families in Denmark, and ask how much of the difference in the parents' incomes would be transmitted, on average, to their grandchildren," Hertz said.

"In the United States this would be 22 percent; in Denmark it would be two percent," he said.

So... actually, Denmark is a better place than the US to fulfil the American Dream. How funny.

Well, if that's the case, why don't you take your stinking music to Demark?

I suspect you get hassled by the authorities because you a) probably preesent the appearance of the typical modern musician, b) you have trouble keeping your obvious anti-American attitudes internalized, and c) you have problems with authority in general.

Stay home. We will all be better off.

[edit on 1-5-2006 by Pyros]

Which bands have decided not to come to the US?

Where do you think bands make all their money? They come to the US.

Which country makes bands have world-wide popularity?

The US of A!

Ever hear of the Beatles? They were not big until the came to the US....then came Beatle-mania.....same with the WHO, Rolling Stones even Sinead O'Connor! (the latter which was also destroyed by the US market.

Which country makes bands have world-wide popularity?

The US of A!

As is so often the case, here is an American who confuses his country with the whole world. Your country has, what, 350m people in a world of over 6 billion.

Just a reminder that there are other countries in the world and not everyone shares your inflated opinion of your native land.

America, made in China, get with it.

This statement is patently Absurd. America was not made in China!
American History just seem's to rub you the wrong way. Why be angry about something none of us has any control over?

As is so often the case, here is an American who confuses his country with the whole world. Your country has, what, 350m people in a world of over 6 billion.

Just a reminder that there are other countries in the world and not everyone shares your inflated opinion of your native land.

Your the one's whining about getting in, that is what this thread is about right?

Originally posted by rich23

Which country makes bands have world-wide popularity?

The US of A!

As is so often the case, here is an American who confuses his country with the whole world. Your country has, what, 350m people in a world of over 6 billion.

Just a reminder that there are other countries in the world and not everyone shares your inflated opinion of your native land.

Well he has a point, if you haven't made it in America, you haven't really made it. Other countries are just side shows when it comes to the pinnacle of music success.

Originally posted by mad scientist



Well he has a point, if you haven't made it in America, you haven't really made it. Other countries are just side shows when it comes to the pinnacle of music success.

Ah yes but we have the talent!!

Anyway this thread's going off topic - US paranoid immigration controls are putting many people off visiting the US leading to cultural isolation

Originally posted by rich23
Just a reminder that there are other countries in the world and not everyone shares your inflated opinion of your native land.

Ya know, there are countries where you would be treated much worse by immigration and customs than in the US.

All the metal detector, guard booth, take your shoes off, etc..etc... applies to Americans aswell, we all get treated the same.

On the consular issue; I feel for the consular officers having to do 100 interviews a day (many times with a translator). And this goes on for 2-3 years.

Originally posted by SportyMB


Ya know, there are countries where you would be treated much worse by immigration and customs than in the US.

I've yet to find one, of the 30+ countries I've visited the US is by far the worst!

I'm still wait.......which bands have cancelled?

It seems to me that it was just 'another' rant by someone who is jealous of the USA!

The problem, though, isn't just bands cancelling (or just not planning) US tours. We're seeing this same impact in academics as well. Foreign professors are declining (or unable) to teach at American universities, foreign students are seeking their education elsewhere, and even professional conferences are looking for other venues because they can't guarantee keynote speakers will be allowed into the country.

"So what." you say. "Big deal, we don't need no foreign ideas anyway." This means, though, that the influx of new ideas into the US will slow. it certainly won't stop, we'll still have our scientists and professors travel to other countries to share information with their peers, but the US will no longer be a center for such gatherings. We will become, because of this, just a little bit behind, just a little bit slower with that next advance. Our pool of talented minds will decrease, just a little bit, as we lose the ability to encourage networking with US institutions and companies via these students, professors, and conferences, and give those opportunities away to other countries.

That's why this cultural isolation is a bad thing. Not because "Terrorists are misunderstood" or "We'll miss out on good music," but because America will fall just a little bit behind. Our technology will be second-, or third-best, we'll have to look to other nations to help us catch up. Those nations who want the highest tech equipment for their militaries won't be purchasing from US companies anymore, they'll be looking elsewhere: To the EU, to Brazil, to China. And that's what'll hurt us. It won't be the dramatic apocalypse that everyone here loves to predict: no nuclear fire, no self-devouring civil war, just a slow decline into has-been status.

Thank you, Whiskey Jack! Cultural impoverishment is not something to be proud of, and you make your case very eloquently. Plus, that's a great Norton avatar. Voted you way above, 'cause you made my day.

And for whoever it was that feels sorry for the consular official who has to do so many interviews every day: either the Embassy should hire more or the official concerned needs to make a lifestyle choice. I'd rather feel sorry for someone who slogs their guts out for below minimum in Wal-Mart, gets dead peasants insurance, and is stiffed on his own health care. They have far less choice about what they do.

Originally posted by Whiskey Jack
"So what." you say. "Big deal, we don't need no foreign ideas anyway." This means, though, that the influx of new ideas into the US will slow. it certainly won't stop, we'll still have our scientists and professors travel to other countries to share information with their peers, but the US will no longer be a center for such gatherings.

Well in this day and age, face to face gatherings are becoming rather moot with the advent of the internet.