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EU report condemns secret CIA flights

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posted on Apr, 26 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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Since 2001 the CIA has performed numerous flights in and over Europe. An EU commission lead by Claudio Fava claims that some countries knew about this practice while others didn't. Mr. Fava will continue his investigations on secret prisons in Poland and Romania later this year.
 



news.bbc.co.uk
The CIA ran more than 1,000 secret flights into and out of Europe, and flew terror suspects for questioning overseas, a new report has concluded.

The interim European Parliament probe into allegations of "extraordinary rendition" accused the US agency of kidnapping terror suspects.

Air safety regulators revealed flights with irregular flight paths heading to and from European airports from 2001.

The report's author suggested some EU governments knew about the flights.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


In this report several countries are named and accused of knowing about this without reacting on behalf of suspects not being treated after international law. Italy, Sweeden and Bosnia & Hercegovina are said to MUST have knowledge of these operations.
If you read the first link bellow you will find a funny quote from the spokesman of the Czech counter-intelligence service:


Prague, April 12 (CTK) - The Czech counter-intelligence service knows nothing about the alleged landings of CIA planes in the Czech Republic, its spokesmen Jan Subert told CTK today.

"The Security Information Service (BIS) does not monitor the operation of the airport," Subert said.

The counter-intelligence service was not interested in what planes take off or land at the airport and it therefore has no information on the alleged stop-overs of CIA planes in Prague, Subert said.


Should not the intelligence service be interested in who uses the country's airports? Sounds fishy.

Let's hope that this might raise more questions on the treatment of terror suspects and secret prisons.

Related News Links:
www.praguemonitor.com
www.nzz.ch

[edit on 26/4/06 by Vaak]

[edit on 26-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 05:36 AM
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In the last year when the subject "AIR CIA" operations in Europe, surfaced, almost all european countries said that was false, and each of them started their own investigating, their conclusion there were: "no CIA planes in Europe and no detention centers". This stood still, until the European Parliement started a new investigation.The results begin to surface.

One conclusion all european leaders at that time lied to their people, when they said, that "AIR CIA" ops were false. And now what's the next lie?

Other links:
CIA Flights Likened to the Work of Gangsters
www.commondreams.org...

EU Investigation Accuses CIA of 1,000 Illegal Flights
www.voanews.com...

EU Data Said Proves CIA Europe Flights
abcnews.go.com...

Crustas



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Conflicting information or different issues?

There is a lot of conflicting information on this issue, something that just makes the whole story a whole lot more interesting in my opinion.What is sure is that we have not heard the last on this matter.

An EU delegation wants to fly to Washington in early May to ask US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and CIA chief Porter Goss about the flights.
service.spiegel.de...


The European Parliament's committee in charge of investigating CIA activities in Europe is hoping to send a delegation to Romania and Poland in September, as the two countries are suspected of having hosted secret detention centers set up by the U.S. top intelligence agency.
www.daily-news.ro...


Today Javier Solana, The European Union's foreign policy chief, said:
"I have no information whatsoever that tells me with certainty that any of the accusations, allegations, rumors, that have taken place are true,"

But what sounds even more worrisome is his claim that he does not have the competence to deal with the issue.
link



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:20 PM
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Yeah, here ya go Vaak:
EU Official Denies Knowledge of CIA Jails

As much as Javier Solana despises the U.S., seems to lend some credibility to what he mentions?




seekerof



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Vaak

But what sounds even more worrisome is his claim that he does not have the competence to deal with the issue.
link


I'm not sure how you interpreted that comment, but, keep in mind that as it relates to EU law, competence is a term of art broadly translating into "jurisdiction" or "treaty mandate." He wasn't calling himself incompetent! He was referring to his procedural "competence" under the EU meaning. There should be some kind of accent mark over one of the e's there, but I'm useless with that stuff.



He said the European Union treaty only allowed the bloc's executive branch, the European Commission, or at least a third of member states acting in concert, to raise the issue.


Which is true to a degree. However, all EU states are signatories to the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, which might form the basis of a claim brought against a member country by another not by the executive, but in the European Court of Justice, something that only one member country acting alone is able to do.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by koji_K]



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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"There was an exorbitant number of 'no comments,'" Claudio Fava, who is charged with writing the delegation's report, said after an hour-long meeting with senior U.S. State Department officials.
link


No comment


Earlier this week, John Bellinger, the Legal Adviser at the State Department, passed through Brussels. Largely just for bilateral consultations with EU officials, with Belgian officials, with NATO officials, and primarily on his way Geneva where he will head the U.S. delegation presenting their report to the Committee Against Torture under the Convention Against Torture.

He was heavily questioned on European soil, and admits that this issue is a very difficult situation for the United States.

As stated from a journalist: " You can say as much as you want that there are no detainees on these flights and what have you, but it is your word against others. What is a little bit strange in your argument is that you are admitting that there are a whole bunch of flights. You are telling us that we should not assume there are detainees on all these flights, but you cannot exclude it either."

I think Mr. Bellinger hits the nail on the head with this piece of truth: "The idea about intelligence activities is that one does not confirm or deny them"


Vaak



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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And here you go Seekerof:

"More than one source in the CIA...told us that between 30 and 50 people have been transported by extraordinary rendition," Italian Socialist MEP and committee rapporteur Giovanni Claudio Fava told reporters in Strasbourg.
link


I guess somebody said something afterall.

I really don't know your views on this issue, but if you think "nothing" happened, it seems you are wrong.
In my eyes the real issue here is the "black sites"



In the top-secret CIA documents, which virtually the entire European press is currently discussing, the clandestine jails in Poland and Romania, referred to in the Washington Post and Human Rights Voices, even have a name – ‘black sites’. They are a sort of no-man’s land, beyond the law and beyond the right of habeas corpus. If proven, these allegations are serious and present us with a difficult problem – the need to find the delicate balance between protecting citizens’ rights and combating terrorism.


According to the CIA source, "the secret centres in Europe were closed down following the public pressure exerted by the media, but there is a black site still operating in a North African country."

-Personally I don't care where they are, I just don't like them.

I care a lot for Human Rights issues, and the latest news to come out of an " outsourced american detention camp" is more than disturbing. I just don't like their new look on Torture Light.

I wonder what happens to the CIA source.

Here is another interesting read on what can happen to chit chatters:
American journalists accused of espionage

From link above:

If the Supreme Court agrees with the Bush administration on this case, we will, as Aftergood says, have to build many more jails — and disarm the First Amendment.

Vaak



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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If it happened in their country, then they should handle it if they are opposed. If it did not happen in their country, they should mind their own business.

Unless they are too worried about the terrrorist's rights. Then stand up and say so.

[edit on 18-5-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on May, 19 2006 @ 06:59 AM
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Europeans knew of CIA flights: US officials Wed May 17, 2006 11:35am ET12

"STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - A wave of CIA flights that secretly transferred terrorist suspects across Europe could only have been carried out with the knowledge of host nations, EU investigators on Wednesday quoted U.S. officials as saying."
....
"Dick Marty, a Swiss investigator from the Council of Europe human rights watchdog which is separately probing the renditions, has branded the transfers as "outsourcing of torture"."
Reuters link


The news above shows, what i have said earlier in this post about the EU leaders, they all lied to Europeans. Another stone to the castle has been added. The transfers are now branded as "outsourcing of torture" what a shame for the European democracy.


CIA flight probes "stonewalled" - UN official Tue May 16, 2006 5:42 PM BST
" BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Inquiries into allegations that CIA flights through Europe carried people bound for possible ill-treatment are facing a stonewall by officials who want the affair to go away, a U.N. official said on Tuesday."
...
"Human rights group Amnesty International said this month that torture and inhumane treatment were "widespread" in U.S.-run detention centres in Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba and elsewhere despite Washington's denials."
Reute rs link

The deeper you dig, the hotter it gets.



Peace
Crustas


Mod edit: Fixed long urls

[edit on 19-5-2006 by TheBandit795]



posted on May, 29 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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Portugal, which stands accused by a committee made up of members of the European Parliament of having allowed aircraft carrying terror suspects to land and take off from its national airports en route to torture chambers in eastern Europe and the Middle East, faces severe sanctions if a report to be published in June confirms the allegations.

Portugal, Britain, Sweden, France and Germany all stand accused by human rights groups of aiding and abetting the CIA in such flights.
source


Getting old, but still an interesting read is the transcript of the swedish documentary "The Broken Promise" - 2004.

And please SeekerOf, I might have come of sounding harsh, but I really want to know your views on this matter.
I found a reply from you in another thread:


Originally written by SeekerOf in POLL: Torture
Do I agree with the blantant and rampant use of torture? No.
But if it is one method deemed needed, required, and necessary to win a battle or war, then so be it.


Do you think the "war on terrorism" justifies the use of torture?

I know that after 2001 numerous governments were under pressure in a way that led them to violate their human rights obligations. These days there is a big debate about this in Europa, and we will see what that coming report leads to.

Vaak



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 12:01 PM
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Vaak,

I can still remember the minister of the foreign affairs, Freitas do Amaral, in Portugal saying on TV that they had no knowledge, of the flights, what a liar. At that time i didn't trust those words and now i don't trust in any words.


I've tried to find in the portuguese newspapers, anything regarding those past statements, but found none.


It's probably erased by now, like in the 1984, George Orwell, fashion way.



Crustas

[edit on 30-5-2006 by crustas]



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 06:15 AM
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More information has just arrived.

"European governments colluded with US on rendition"
Quote:
"PARIS (AFP) - Fourteen European countries colluded in or tolerated the secret transfer of terrorist suspects by the United States, and two of them -- Poland and Romania -- may have harboured CIA detention centres, according to a Council of Europe report released.

"It is now clear -- although we are still far from establishing the whole truth -- that authorities in several European countries actively participated with the CIA in these unlawful activities. Other countries ignored them knowingly, or did not want to know," the report said.

It listed Sweden, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Britain, Italy, Macedonia, Germany and Turkey as countries "responsible, at varying degrees ... for violations of the rights of specific persons."

Seven other countries "could be held responsible for collusion -- active or passive": Poland, Romania, Spain, Cyprus, Ireland, Portugal and Greece."
.....
"The report urged that "member states concerned finally comply with their positive obligation under the European Convention on Human Rights to investigate."

The Strasbourg-based Council of Europe, which is a separate body from the European Union, was set up after World War II to promote democracy and human rights across the continent. It has 46 member states."
End quote
www.afp.fr...

One word for the europeans leaders: hypocrites
Crustas
Editing: for the link, which i have forgoten, sorry

[edit on 7-6-2006 by crustas]



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 07:03 AM
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News BBC

Fourteen European states colluded with the CIA in secret US flights for terror suspects, a report for Europe's human rights watchdog concludes.

The document by Swiss senator Dick Marty follows a seven-month inquiry.

The report says there is also evidence to back suspicions secret CIA camps are or were located in Poland and Romania - allegations both countries deny.

Under the CIA policy of rendition, prisoners are secretly moved to states where they may have been tortured.

The new report says: "It is now clear - although we are still far from having established the truth - that authorities in several European countries actively participated with the CIA in these unlawful activities.

"Other countries ignored them knowingly, or did not want to know."

Spain, Turkey, Germany and Cyprus provided "staging posts" for rendition operations, while the UK, Portugal, Ireland and Greece were "stop-off points", the report says.

It says Italy, Sweden, Macedonia and Bosnia allowed the abduction of residents from their soil.

The most serious charges are levelled at Poland and Romania, where Mr Marty says there is enough evidence to support suspicions that CIA secret prisons were established.

Just heard it on the TV News.

Thought I should chip-in on this thread.

I wonder what mister Seekerof will say now...

[size=0]Taliban means Seeker if you translate it to English.




posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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Indeed this is all a little disturbing. I am not a heavy poster, in fact this is only my third post since joining ATS but i felt i had to throw my tuppence (we don't have cents here in the UK) into the fray.

channels.aolsvc.co.uk...

Take the poll, as it stands now 44% of people aparrently think that torture is all fine and dandy, this really makes me sick to the core, humans are real scum.

Roll on armageddon i say!


Souljah...
I have been following your postings for quite a while now, all hail to you for keeping your moral integrity in the face of this tidal wave of ignorance, i salute you! (no... hang on a min...that's too militaristic) I give you a thumbs up and a tentative 'peace man!'



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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Foto: Council of Europe source

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive”

Peace
Vaak



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 09:30 AM
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How can any nation that criticises others on Human Rights abuses and torture think that it's ok for them to do it, overtly or covertly?
Let's not forget that the people being picked up (kidnapped?) from their home or host countries are "suspects" and as such should be investigated and the burden of proof of guilt should be on the state.
I have seen, on many other threads that have discussed this issue, people saying that these suspects should be tortured to find out what they know. The trouble is that even many in the military will admit that torture produces very little information and anyone will admit to anything just to end the suffering. But I suppose admissions make those performing these acts of torture feel better and our leaders sleep easier at night.

I am sure that many of the people who agree with the torture would soon change their tune if a member of their fdamily was picked up, flown out of the country and torured.

Who gets to decide who is and isn't a threat and what constitutes a threat and to whom or what? Hell, many of us on here could be labelled as a threat to national security if we started distributing evidence of government wrongdoing.
Maybe the alphabet agencies just need to round up random people on these missions to give the impression they are doing something useful and to justify the budgets



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
How can any nation that criticises others on Human Rights abuses and torture think that it's ok for them to do it, overtly or covertly?


I agree, the collusion through the accounts of persons once detained (such as Mr. El-Marsi from the full report) suggests that multiple differing agencies are indeed working together allegedly headed by US operatives.

Most of the states listed in the full report are the very same which openly call an end to Gitmo etal., berate the US with allegations of criminal renditions and inhumane unlawful incarcerations; while it appears from the published report they contributed. This type of hypocrisy, if true, has no name.

However, the report itself relies heavily on detainee accounts and is ‘admits’ to a lack of evidence, although apparently growing, to make direct factual conclusions. Time will tell.

Full Report


mg



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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At the very end of the press conference held at Camp David yesterday,
Mr. Bush was asked about the flights:


Q I'm sorry, I have one for you, Mr. President. This week, a report from the European Council talked about some CIA flights, illegal CIA flights with the prisoners in Europe, and illegal CIA presence also in some European countries. Have these flights taken place, and did you discuss this in your meeting today?

PRESIDENT BUSH: We haven't discussed it yet. I suspect we will now that you brought it up. I would just -- I can tell you what I'll tell the Prime Minister, is that in cases where we're not able to extradite somebody who's dangerous, sometimes renditions take place. It's been a part of our government for quite a period of time -- not just my government, but previous administrations have done so in order to protect people. And as we do so, we protect the sovereign rights of nations that we're involved with.

Okay, thanks for the press conference. Enjoy yourselves. Get out of here. (Laughter.)
source


He sure knows how to crack up a crowd


edit: spelling mistake


[edit on 9/6/06 by Vaak]



posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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A few more headlines...


June 14, 2006 - 3:41 PM
EU, U.S. "partners in crime" on CIA flights
"BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Amnesty International urged European states on Wednesday to stop being "partners in crime" with the United States over the alleged kidnapping of terrorism suspects and their transfer to countries that use torture.
........
Davis would shortly make recommendations on legal measures that could be taken on the national and European levels to reinforce existing protection against rendition and illegal detention, the Council of Europe said.

Amnesty reported on six suspected cases of abuses by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency in which it said seven countries -- Germany, Italy, Sweden, Britain, Bosnia, Macedonia and Turkey -- were involved."

www.swissinfo.org...



14 June 2006, 11:29 GMT 12:29 UK
UK role in CIA flights 'criminal'
"Britain is a "partner in crime" with the United States in organising secret flights to move terror suspects around the world, a human rights groups says.

Amnesty International claims that UK ministers have adopted a "see no evil, hear no evil" approach to CIA flights.
............
Last week at prime minister's questions Tony Blair told MPs the Council of Europe report contained "absolutely nothing new".
.....
The prime minister said the government had said all it had to say on the issue and repeated the government's insistence that since 1998 it had agreed to two US requests for prisoner flights through the UK, and refused two others.
"
news.bbc.co.uk...


I glad to know, that there are still, people(groups) in the European Parliament, that really cares about the citizens and human rights. People like that are the one's fighting for a really democratic Europe, while others just want to keep their status quo.

This situation, i will compare it to, breaking an iceberg into little ice cubes for a crustas drink.

I applaud the hard work of those who whant to keep Europe clean and democratic...



Crustas

[edit on 17-6-2006 by crustas]



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