Revolution...the cure for a Corrupt government.

This is something i posted in another thread...but i wanted to use it to start an actual discussion on the possibilities of, for, and against an American Revolution.


This part is for the Mods and crew....I am not advocating that any ATS members do any of the following nor am I in any way attempting to convince or persuade any person(s) to join with myself. I am in no way attempting to form a group from ATS members nor am I attempting to set up meeting for person(s) from this website.

That being said....I just watched V for Vendetta and while movies are movies...it really struck a cord with me. I have ranted and raved through numerous posts about what should be done and whats being done that is wrong. AFter seeing this movie I feel galvanized towards some sort of aciton possibly similar to that described in said film.

All I am trying to say, especially to you Godservant is this. The wealthy and powerful are only that for one reason....we THE PEOPLE are willing to go to work in thier factories and drive thier cars and eat thier specially grown and chemically altered foostuffs. They are wealthy not because they have actually physically done somethign. Like built a wall...cleaned a street....taught someone the basics of life and educated them. No they have created HUGE multinational corporations that skirt the law at ever turn and whose only goal is the increase in ones own monetary worth.

What WE can do....is something that is scary....hard...and mroe than likely painful. But as the mother goes through pain during birth so must those who seek to bring about change on a large scale. Things will not be hunky dorey....there will be strife and suffering...but through it all a new day can dawn. What we can do is refuse to work...refuse to pay....and if need be take up arms against the very institution we seek to change. But if the instution created by man has become so corrupt as to cease functioning it is the duty of the people whom are governed to bring down the instution and put in its place a suitable replacement. One that trully is for the people and not for itself. Nothing lasts forever...things change it is the only constant. We must be willing to change with it or we risk suffering even greater because of our apathy. Corporations and BIG Government people will not stop on thier own accord...they must be made to stop by whatever means neccessary.

There is a symbiotic relationship that is supposed to exhist between the people, buisness, media, and government. Those balances have been broken. Godsend what we must do it look into ourselves and find the courage to stop particpating. THe hardest thing for any human to do is nothing. But nothing is exactly what we must do for now. We must refuse on a National level to cooperate...to function...to be peaceful....we must refuse to play by the rules and paradigms that we have excepted blindly.

The immigration movement has it correct. We must all show the government and Big buisness that without us they cannot function. Government and Buisness do not exist but for the people. From time to time they forget this....and it is the Duty of all people to remind them.

Violence must be the last option. But unfortunetly it must remain an option. Symbolism is sometimes more powerful than any rally or protest. Symbolic acts of violence have in the past been effective in getting the messege across to those whom would normally not listen.

We must NOT go silently into that good night. We must fight. We must not fall and be yoked by masters. We must not fail...

El senor pom pom rides again

You might like my thread called "I'm running for prez in 08".

Revolution or die people. America is on the verge of collapse.

Many nations would re think their hatred of America if we axed the Government.

The powers that be in america don't respect you or your life. they lie, rob and kill you and then they have the talking heads tell you someone else did it.

Our world today exists on preconcieved perceptions, perceptions that by and large go unquestioned in our society. We have no heroes of virtue or celebrities with honor with whom to aspire to. We have Jerry Springers...and TNA Impact. Our childrens idols are teenie boppers who spew to them corporate sponsorship and ideaology. Our founding fathers are put up as things they were not. Our founding fathers where a group of men who had a vision of a country where the people could rule...amoung them there were those whose ideas leaned more towards the socialst and those whose ideas leaned more towards capitalism. The founding fathers took too polar opposite ideas and fused them into what they believed to be a living document...one that would not be pulled to either side. Unfortuently the balance between profit and civil service has been struck. All things in moderation nothing to excess is an expression touted quite often in todays world...unfortunetly few including myself trully follow this simple parable, Niether the people nor those who rule them. In a world dominated by martielism and the latest fashion can we really blame anyone other than ourselves that our world and government is the way it is. The reason that corporations and the super wealthy run this country the way they do is because WE THE PEOPLE have let them...we have stood by willy nilly as these people walked off with our rights and freedoms. We did nothing....and they took that to mean that it was free-reign and that as long as we had our x-boxes, and High Def TV's, all the drugs and alcohol and porn and tobbacco you could ever want (BTW I fall into all of these catogories) that we would be quiet and they could do as they pleased. Well some of us are starting to wake from our drug and entertainment induced comas to the world around us. We see the corruption and hate fueled by a greed so insideous as to infect in one form or another nearly every ascpet of our society. We have been duped into believing that thier is nothing we can do..by this method the powers that be never have to fire a shot or quell a riot, which btw is very cost effective. Fear is the best motivator...wether it be to motivate to action or to pacify an entire populace into beliveing it is powerless to stop those who rule. We are the power by which they rule...without out it they have nothing. We are only as powerless as we delude ourselves into believing. We makes the startling and live saving advances in technology....the individual...who makes the society run by picking up garbage...the individual...who cleans the houses and schools and buisnesses and hospitals...the individual....who fire the weapons and dise on the battle field...the individual. If it is we the people who make this machine run...if we are the cogs and nuts and bolts then without us there is no machine only an idea upon which the elite look down on us with scorn. We the pink collar workers, low level management, blue collar workers, bus drivers, garbage men, teachers, etc, we are the United States of America...Not Bill Gates...Not George W....NOT the Oil companies and Mega Congomerates. They exist at the behest of the people wether the people or they realize or except it.



Things are only as impossible as the mind alows them to be.

"Fear is the mindkiller I will face my fear I will let it pass through me and only I will remain...."Paul Atrietes Dune

El senor pom pom rides again

AS Friday draws nearer the prospects of another illegal incursion of American Ideals and values at the end of a gun barrel into a soveriegn nation seems ever more likely. Our leaders are systematically gearing up for what apperas to be a mindless assualt in pursuit of a vain agenda that has nothing to do with the well-being or saftey of the people they are supposedly elected to protect and serve.

Gas...oil...jesus...WMD.....Al queda.....it seems that our Elected Officals throw a new reason at us every week explaining why we are destroying our credibility World Wide, attacking countries far weaker militarily and economically than ourselves(regardless of wether or not Saddam H and the Baathist regime were horrible dictators who mercilessly ruled thier people it was niether our right nor our duty to invade the Iraqi country without International support), enforcing our world, religous, moral, and cultural views on everyone. These are the legacies we leave to our children and our childrens children. We leave them not only a fragile possibly destroyed enviroment...but we also leave them in a politcal cloud of apathy and fear....supercharged by radical religous fundamentalists whom further the cause of terrorism and extremist thought not only in the east but in the west as well. Our elected officals tout thier God fearing ways as they order the deaths of Tens of Thousands of inncoent bystanders and then callously call it "Collateral Damage" and blame the people they are attacking...as if it was they who pushed the bottons or squeezed the triggers...when in fact it was OUR generals and presidents who made these orders...and yet they are God Fearing men. I am not sure how to reconcile the two....

There was a reason that the founding fathers believed there should be a seperation of church and state...many choose to believe the Offical line that says they did it to avoid the religous persecution of thier former mother country...and while this is true...this is not the only reason. Our fore fathers had the wisdom to remmember that history repeats itself and they realized from history that If you allow religon to enter into the realm of political debate you completely nullify any reasonable chance of achieving intellegent rational conversation. I say this not to say that God isnt everwhere but rather to say that Religon and God hold such powerful places in most Americans minds that when a politician invokes religon and or God he also elicts that unconcious effect of adding extra credibility...like I can trust this man hes a God Fearing Church going good guy....This vile assualt on our beliefs is most heinous.

I say all these things without response not because i wish to have resonse, though that would be nice, but rather so that maybe just maybe enough people will see it and it will begin to sow the seeds of doubt...Apathy and fear our are governements strongest and greatest weapons. With them they can pacify with empty words and gestures...and crush all those who voices cry our in dissent.

You are not alone...there are those who share your vision of a better country and better world...This government is only as powerful as we allow it....without us there is no country...without us there is no government....without us they have no power.

El senor pom pom rides again

The only problem is that everything is much easier said than done. It's like "Dr. Doom" the environmentalist advocate that says we SHOULD kill 90% of our population with airborne Ebola, but has never volunterred to be the first one to be afflicted with the disease. I hear people bring up all kinds of ideas to save our world every day, but no one is ever willing to act on them. Until that changes, there is no cure for the government that is developing in the United States.

Vote. Sorry, but it's the only way. We have bloodless revolutions in this country every four years. This is the year for a Bloodless Revolution. Don't let the corrupt, history-of-dirty-tricks party in power get away with their arrogance. Don't let them stop you from voting them out by telling you there's no difference. Scare tactics. Once you get new players, use your first amendment right to petition the govt with yoiur grievances.

Desert,

I totally agree with you, Voting is the means by which the people are supposed to interact with our government. I fully believe in this and it is evidenced by my voting in state, local, county, municpal, and Federal elections. What I am starting to believe however is that our votes no longer matter, atleast on a Federal Level and very possibly at a state level. With the 2000 and 2004 elections i became even more concerned....when I learned that our Congress has a 98-99% reelection rate i became frightened and angry. We now have companies like DIebold petitioning numerous states and winning control over elections. And by tat I mean they provide the hardware and software for electronic voting. These voting machines have been shown, scientifically in CA(See ca state investigations), that these voting machines can and possibly have been hacked and votes changed. With more and more states signing up for the Diebold plan this concerns me as it should every man woman and child of the United States.

Our voices are being stripped away...and many of us arent even aware of it, even those who would be able accept the idea are unaware at times. If our voices are not heard and yet our country continues to function then whose voices do you think our leaders will be hearing.....Corporations....Military...and Personal Agenda.... Interstingly enough if you look at the current voices most often heard in our congressional halls....it just so happens to be those same three groups.....

I am biased...I admit it freely here and now. I am biased for the People of this country and thier interests.

Today the country of Iran was refered to the UN security council...i trully hope that this saber-rattling will turn out to be just that....and not a precursor to an even greater horror. We must speak out and tell not only our Government but the people of the World that We the American people do not stand for the unjust actions taken by our illegitamte government...our names have been usurped and used for causes that are unjust....our Government has been usurped by the power-hunrgry and those whose interests are not that of the American peoples but is that of thier Corporate and private backers. The Time has come that we cease and desist in allowing those in power to squander what we have gracioulsy given them, Our consent, and use that power to better Our country, fix our roads, our education systems, our levies. and not the profit margin of Exxon Mobil and the rest of those who would enslave us if it werent for our constitution and all in the name of increased profit.

El senor pom pom rides again

El senor pom pom, your citizen passion will spill forth and affect others! Definitely worries with Diebold. Maybe you could pull some facts together (such as from report you mentioned) and speak to a local group (university, civic, church), get a team together to do this. Write to elected officials (White House to local), local newspaper, etc. Join/support a group local, regional, national. Cindy Sheehan set up camp and look what happened. Let heads roll in the Bloodless Revolution. Continue to ride and let others know the Bloodless Revolution is coming. Hey, maybe now is the time to personally pass out and collect voter registatation forms, people are concerned now..

Here is some information on the Diebold company, there role in American History, and thier role in the subversion of the American Voice.

cyber.law.harvard.edu...

Diebold has more influence on American elections than almost any other company, though few people are aware of what it does. Ever since the federal government passed the Help America Vote Act in October 2002, many states began modernizing their voting equipment. Armed with $3.9 billion in federal funds and eager to avoid a scandal like Florida’s 2000 election, state election boards turned to Diebold—37 states now use more than 40,000 of Dieobld’s electronic voting machines

same site

The report cataloged hundreds of flaws, which ranged from lack of password protection on central databases to a glitch that would allow holders of a certain “smart card” to vote as many times as they liked. As Avi Rubin, the principal researcher, explained, “We found some stunning, stunning flaws.

Here the CEO of the company says he wants Bush to win
www.commondreams.org...

The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.

www.commondreams.org...
here an article from just after the elections in 04....

If Ohio’s Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell has his way, Diebold will receive a contract to supply touch screen electronic voting machines for much of the state. None of these Diebold machines will provide a paper receipt of the vote.

www.why-war.com...
Here is Diebold in the 2002 Georgia Elections

Something very odd happened in the mid-term elections in Georgia last November. On the eve of the vote, opinion polls showed Roy Barnes, the incumbent Democratic governor, leading by between nine and 11 points. In a somewhat closer, keenly watched Senate race, polls indicated that Max Cleland, the popular Democrat up for re-election, was ahead by two to five points against his Republican challenger, Saxby Chambliss.

Those figures were more or less what political experts would have expected in state with a long tradition of electing Democrats to statewide office. But then the results came in, and all of Georgia appeared to have been turned upside down. Barnes lost the governorship to the Republican, Sonny Perdue, 46 per cent to 51 per cent, a swing of as much as 16 percentage points from the last opinion polls. Cleland lost to Chambliss 46 per cent to 53, a last-minute swing of 9 to 12 points.

And this is just a few of the articles and sites available that will show that Diebold isn really a threat to the American people and our Elected Officals are scrambling hand over to foot to make sure thier district has these machines....Dem or Rebpub eventually both side will be just a s bad if not worse than the other side in regards to voter sabatoge and voter non-recognition.

El senor pom pom rides again

The AFUS - Armed Forces of the United States - are now mercenaries. Like the word or not, they are soldiers of fortune. Loyal to the paymaster. The US Army and USMC have been trained for the last 2 decades how to subdue rebellious cities as in Fallujah. The Armed Forces are throughly indoctrinated - say propagandized - especially in following orders and they have little time or inclination to know what is happening in and to the underclass in America. Or even worse, ex soldiers are now working in private armies that are totally out of control.

Recall in 1969 how the DA of Chicago had 20 cops kill 5 or 6 Black Panthers as they slept? Recall how the 3 voting rights activists in Mississippi were murdered by a gang of half deputy sheriffs and half Ku Kluxers? How far wrong would you say I am when I suggest that 50% of the drug dealers on the street are either DEA undercover agents or DEA informants? And I’d add that 25% of buyers are likewise connected to the DEA.

NSA can monitor every cell phone in America. All the time. All the new cell phones have GPS chips. Use a cell phone and the cops can see you as a blinking light on a giant plasma screen. Does anybody here know semaphore signaling? Or ship’s flag codes? Or Native American smoke signals? Can you imagine that every second or third “fellow” revolutionary is a FBI undercover agent or an FBI informant? I’m convinced Lee Harvey Oswald was a $100 a month “stringer” for the FBI. That was cheaper than trying to “tail” him. How many other cheap stringers do you think the FBI has today? Not to speak of local cops.

So where is your revolution going to go?

Straight to jail! Or to the cemetery. Sorry guys, we’ve crossed the divide. Get to like it! Figure some way to work inside the system or buy some life insurance. One or the other.

[edit on 4/29/2006 by donwhite]

With every new revolution, the scum of a new government sets in.

Jefferson is famous for having said the "Tree of liberty must be nourished by the blood of tyrants" every generation or 25 years.

A march on Washington with everybody holding placards reading Shame or Coward. Email it to them. There is no shame in Washington, give them some!

While much of what you say is true Don one thing you are forgetting is this. American troops will only be effective for so long before even they begin to sucumb. No human being of good conscience can contiously break his own internal paradigms. And this isn't opinion this is Psychological Fact. The human mind can only deal with so much cognitive dissonance before it begins to break down. THis is true for all human beings, even those who have been indoctrinated and broke down the way Military Men/women are. There underlying Uncouncious goal as a Military person is to protect the Country and People. Yes in the begining they will be able to be used to pacify certain areas...but they could not be used in a large full scale rebellion put down....Some yes...because thier loyalties are not to the Country and its People but rather to specific commanders or units. But...history has shown us that if there is a loud enough noise by the people of a country....and thier government sends in thier own troops...eventually those troops turn on thier commanders....this is history....Open any text book on Modern Civs....use of military force on a population either intesifies the rebellion, drives it deeper, or causes chaos in government and in that country. See Africa past several Decades. One slays another who controls and slays another who loses control and is slain by another.

The path down enlightenment is not an easy one. Neither is the path down the roads of revolution. They are littered with the remains of those who came before in an attempt to make right what has gone wrong...and to further secure against future incursions on thier/our civil liberties. I have never once said that this could be a trully bloodless revolution. It may be bloodless on our side...but the opposition will use any and all means to pacifiy those who would not aquiece to thier wishes. I say this not to scare...but to make sure that those who choose to refuse cooperation....they take a risk...one that may or may not play out well for them.

We must not be stopped by preceptions of fear. We must not be stopped by illusions and smoke and mirrors designed to paralyse us with fear. Fear is our governments greatest tool and yet thier weakest. It takes but a will to not be afraid to render this tool of propaganda and illegitamate rule impotent. They may have the FBI, CIA, DEA and a whole host of other Anacronyms....I have an Idea...and Ideas never die....you can kill the messenger but never the idea...I am not the only one with this idea....all it takes is for all of us ot have this idea together...to be willing to set aside our differences and quables and bring about real change in our governing bodies. Make them accountable again to thier constiuents...and not to thier corporate and private backers....We do not have to get used to this....we do not have to accept lower wages and higher prices....we do not have to accept this Government....it is by choice that we do...and THis is what they dont want us to know....Without us they dont exist...they have no purpose...without the people...there is NO United States.

El senor pom pom rides again

Originally posted by donwhite
Jefferson is famous for having said the "Tree of liberty must be nourished by the blood of tyrants" every generation or 25 years.

Wasn't it with the blood of patriots? Forgive me but I'm not that strong with my American history.

Well, I agree with what you're saying Elsenorpompom, but what if a revolution does happen and our current government is overthrown, what would you like to see take its place? The kind of government the fathers of this country wished, or something new?

posted by Elsenorpompom: “Much of what you say is true one thing you are forgetting is . . American troops will be effective only for so long and continuously break his own internal paradigms before they succumb to good conscience. This is Psychological Fact. [Edited by Don W]

Yes. OTOH, if the number of dedicated Revolters is very small, they could be decimated before our soldiers’ good consciences were triggered.

The mind can only deal with so much cognitive dissonance before it begins to break down. This is true for all humans, even those who have been indoctrinated and broke down the way military men women are.

Reflect momentarily on My Lai. Proper name was Son my. A full platoon under Lt. Calley, about 50-60 men, on 3/16/68, killed 347 people including, every man, woman and child! As related with approval in the Book of Judges, Holy Bible. Whether by design or not, it was not publicized until the fall of 1969, nearly 18 months after the fact. Low ranking soldiers writing letters to DoD officials finally brought the story to light. For my argument, soldiers in the field do what they are ordered to do. For you argument, their consciences finally brought out the best /?/ in the men.

The underlying Unconscious goal as a Military person is to protect the Country and People. Yes in the beginning they will be able to be used to pacify certain areas . . but they could not be used in a large full scale rebellion put down . . Some yes . . because their loyalties are not to the Country and its People but rather to specific commanders or units.

E/P/P, you say, “ . . loyalties . . to specific commanders or units.” I’m thinking the super-soldiers are more likely to fall for this than the regular GI joe. SEALS, Delta Force, Rangers and whatever the USMC calls it “special forces.” It is like the story - I do not know if it is true - how a SEAL mission was compromised when a 5 year old Vietnamese girl wandering outside her village came across the 4 man SEAL team. The leader determined to kill her. Exigent circumstances. A similar incident happened in the desert during the aborted Tehran hostage rescue attempt and the person was allowed to live with no consequences. Qum si qum sa.

But . . history has shown us that if there is a loud enough noise by the people of a country . . and their government sends in their own troops . . eventually those troops turn on their commanders . . This is history . . Open any text book on Modern Civics . “

Our only experience in this area is the Civil War, 1861-1865. Although I’m talking Union soldiers in the South, and Southern soldiers in the North, I am unaware of any hesitancy on either side to carry out orders. Sherman is the most notable. When he made his March Through Georgia with the avowed purpose of destroying the state’s infrastructure. Taking food from hungry people is next to a sentence of death. I do not know how many people died on the March - collateral damage. We don’t report deaths by starvation in America.

“ . . use of military force on a population either intensifies the rebellion, drives it deeper, or causes chaos in government. See Africa past several decades. One slays another who slays another is slain by another.

We call that “third world” countries. We ignore them unless they have uranium as in Niger or oil as in Nigeria. Look at how much we ignore Sudan and its Darfur province? Did you hear yesterday (4/28/06) that the UN is out of money so 300,000 (black) people in Darfur will have no more food until who knows when? I say flatly this would not happen if the people were white.

The enlightenment paths are littered with the remains of those who came before in an attempt to make right what has gone wrong . . I never said this could be a bloodless revolution. It may be bloodless on our side . . but the opposition will use any and all means to pacify those who would not acquiesce to their wishes.

In February, 1917, a Provisional Government replaced the Russian Tsar and was led by a liberal aristocrat, Prince Georgy Y. Lvov. After his government failed, he was succeeded by a Social Revolutionary, Alexander Kerensky. This is what happened to peaceful revolutions in Russia. In October, Lenin and the minority - Bolsheviks - took over and murdered all their real and perceived opponents. It is not realistic IMO, to speak seriously of taking control of a $45 Trillion country bloodlessly.

We must not be stopped by perceptions of fear. We must not be stopped by illusions and fear. Fear is both our governments greatest tool and yet their weakest. They have the FBI, CIA, DEA and a whole host of other acronym agencies . . I have an Idea . . and Ideas never die . . you can kill the messenger but never the idea . . I am not the only one with this idea . . all it takes is for all of us to have This idea together . . to be willing t


LOST in Editeng.

[edit on 4/29/2006 by donwhite]

I have never said that this would be a bloodless revolution. I only hope that it can be....though i leave no option unchecked. Violence may be nessecary in the overthrow of the United States.

Now when i said look into modern civics...i wasnt meaning american civics...i ment world wide. Now I had not taken into account the possibility of super soliders...With them i would be sure that they would turn on the People and not the govnerment. Now in regards to the American Civil war that was different. There were clear sides...there was the North who wanted to make this country an Industrialized society and thier was the south who wanted to make it an agrarian society. Feel free to argue with me about how it was because of slaves...it wasnt...it was money...atleast thats how it looks to me. The next revolution will not be like the American Civil War. It will be the people vs the Government....which is very different. Sides are not as clearly dileniated. More specifically it isnt between states....its between people and government. But thats just my opionion which is why I in turn believe that while the Military may be used at first...eventuallly they will either have to bring in UN troops or the equivalant there of either that or higher mercanary groups who really dont care whom they kill.

I wanted to say thankyou to the hundred or so people who have viewed this thread...and the four or five who have posted....it makes it all the more worth...regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

hatchedcross i would like to see a Democratic Socialist Country come out of the ashes of a US rebellion. Not pure socialism or pure democracy. Semi-free market economy...with certain restrictions on profit margins, hiring and firing, and on product quality. I would advocate for strong laws barring ALL Corporations from particpating in Government in any way shape or form with the exception of Taxes and Fees. The individual within a corporation will have all the same rights as a non-corporate individual however the Days of playing to pay are over. I would restructure our economic and foriegn policies. No more soft money. Pacs can still exist but they would have very stringent guidlines. No more pork barreling or Ear marking. Supreme Court no longer life time appointments. College Degrees required for all members of Congress and the Senate. All political groups will be publically financed. Laws will be put in place that make it a federal requirment that atleast 20% of the Federal and State budgets will go DIRECTLY to students...wether it be college, HS, MS, or ES. The United States will no longer spend more on defense and military then it does on the most important part of our country; our youth and thier educations. I would require A MASSIVE overhaul of our criminal justice system. Jail will no longer be the first and most often used form of punishment. Psychology and sociology have shown that incarceration simply doesnt work...all it does it make carreer criminals out of people. I cant say that I ve come up with a whole new list of punishments...but given time and reasources this would not be a major issue. I would also abolish the AMA and FDA, the FCC, school of Americas. I would keep DARPA it would just be under new management. There would no longer be a Classfied when it came to domestic issues. The govenment can and must be transparent to all of it citizens. There will never ever again be a Closed Session of Congress. The whole concept around National Security and Classification of Documents and deeds REAKS of corruption and foul play. These are just a few of the ideas I have for restructing our government.

But most importantly I would completely restructure our tax code to favor no one. Not to favor the rich nor the poor. Percentage based tax code. All pay according to thier abilities. Rich people arent rich without the not so rich to buy thier products or use thier railroads.

El senor pom pom rides again

Yes, the revolution against Big business and an oppresive goverment already took place back in the 1860's so your a little late.

but it dosnt matter because the corperatists Big business side won.

so we are stuck with what we have.

Wow. Now that's a narrow-minded view if I've ever heard one. Just because that's the way it is now means that we have to live with it? Not good enough!! How is progress ever going to get made for society in general if everyone acts like the Ostrich and puts their heads in the dirt?

Now, don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of things that could use changing, but by no means do I advocate all out revolution. There's a proper time and place for actions like that, and these aren't them. Change is something that can be resolved peacefully, and without conflict, provided the people want it badly enough. Stand up for yourself and what you believe in. Have a backbone. Without that, there is no hope of ever getting change, since those that do have the backbone will railroad you with their views. If that happens, prepare to live in a world where you are nothing but a piece of meat serving the collective.

TheBorg

(edited for spelling error)

[edit on 1-5-2006 by TheBorg]