Should Israel Have Nukes???

Does anyone think that the world and it's technology is progressing to the point where everyone will have Nukes, or even worse weapons?
What will happen then? The end of all we know?
Israel has shown restraint, besides being attacked again and again, having Fatwah's issued and demands for eradication, they have not resorted to their use. But has not history shown that technology can not be denied and that it will eventually get out?
Scary issue

Originally posted by police_officer339
Does anyone think that the world and it's technology is progressing to the point where everyone will have Nukes, or even worse weapons?
What will happen then? The end of all we know?

The physics behind nuclear weapons is simple. A nuclear weapon can be designed and built by a highschool AP student. The problem is in finding fissionable materials.

I guess my problem with the whole situation is that, it's ok for pakistan to have nukes, it's ok for israel to have nukes, its ok for india to have nukes. But it's not ok for iran to have nukes.

You know, Armaggedon almost happened between india and pakistan. They were VERY close to blowing each other off the map. You heard nothing about this in news.

Iran is letting the IAE into iran to suspect their facilities, they have not been refused access to any sites as far as i'm aware. The conclusion so far is that they see "no divergance" of fissionable materials from the process of nuclear power to the process of weapons.

But yet, america is ready to nuke them in response. The double standard is amazing.

How many times has china threatened to nuke us within the past year?

I would say, all these things should be dismantled. But like I said before, its relatively easy enough to build a nuke. A nuclear holocaust may be inevitable.

I know it's a shame to say this, but I have no arguement with all that you said. HAHAHA

I am kind of on the fence with one country telling another what they can have or not have.
I understand their mind-set, but I can also see the other side (the who are you to tell me anything side)

It is a very dangerous situation.

Originally posted by tsensel


The physics behind nuclear weapons is simple. A nuclear weapon can be designed and built by a highschool AP student. The problem is in finding fissionable materials.

I guess my problem with the whole situation is that, it's ok for pakistan to have nukes, it's ok for israel to have nukes, its ok for india to have nukes. But it's not ok for iran to have nukes.

You know, Armaggedon almost happened between india and pakistan. They were VERY close to blowing each other off the map. You heard nothing about this in news.

Iran is letting the IAE into iran to suspect their facilities, they have not been refused access to any sites as far as i'm aware. The conclusion so far is that they see "no divergance" of fissionable materials from the process of nuclear power to the process of weapons.

But yet, america is ready to nuke them in response. The double standard is amazing.

How many times has china threatened to nuke us within the past year?

I would say, all these things should be dismantled. But like I said before, its relatively easy enough to build a nuke. A nuclear holocaust may be inevitable.

>>>>>>>>>>

do you really believe that iran has been open and honest about their nuclear program?? it is known that IAEA inspectors were only allowed into (approved) sites for inspection... also having 40,000 suicide bombers on stand-by is not very respectful of the international community's stand on terrorism. which china is a part of. so why should anyone trust that they will handle nukes responsably???

[edit on 30-4-2006 by the_sentinal]

Do you think that, if Iran had nukes, we wouldn't know about it? If Iran had nukes, the US would be leaving it well alone, kind of like North Korea.

It's good that Israel showed restraint in Gulf War I. Can they be guaranteed to show similar restraint in the future?

And it's not as if they don't have enough conventional weapons. The US gives them all the planes and tanks and guns they need, surely?

If anyone wants to see what the Israeli nuclear facility at Dimona looks like, they can visit this thread.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
pieman you should have answered ZMAX on page two i think your bias was clearly showing on those comments you made. you say that iran should be allowed to have nukes as a counter-balence. THAT is the most hair-brained idea i have ever heard..they would go offensive if they had the capability tommorow!!

israel has shown they exercise restraint with the nukes they have.. therfore they should be allowed to continue to have them as a deterent to any aggressor that might pose a threat!!

My Bias? If Zmax actually believes the Palestinians have been free at any point in time during the past 50 or so years, there is no point in my wasting my typng efforts in trying to say otherwise. I know differently.
As for your comment that Iran would be on the offensive it just proves my point and is indicitive that most countries in the ME are on the constant defensive due to this imbalance of power. As far as Bias goes...Have you ever read your OWN posts? You are a walking, breathing Bias machine. Do you like work for the Israeli government or something?

Take a look at this:

'Tangible proof' al-Qaida deploying nukes!!!

Iran In Secret Talks With Washington!!!

Alert!!! 250 Nuclear Warheads Sold To Iran???

Even in topics that seemingly have nothing to do with Arabs you find a way to insert your hatred and point of view
Plague-Infested Mice, Anthrax Missing From N.J. Labs

but note worthy because of all the terrorist threats that are coming out of the middle-east the last few day's

Syria & Lebanon Will Join In If We Attack Iran!!

This one should be in the Bias hall of fame
Can Muslims Be Good Americans???

NO because he/she must submit to the mullah (spiritual leader)
who teach annihilation of isreal and the destruction of america

In the future...those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. If I am Biased, then what are you? I don't need to post messages of hate and supposition to try and convince people to be on my side. If they don't agree with me, fine, I won't try to scare them into seeing things my way.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
do you really believe that iran has been open and honest about their nuclear program?? it is known that IAEA inspectors were only allowed into (approved) sites for inspection... also having 40,000 suicide bombers on stand-by is not very respectful of the international community's stand on terrorism. which china is a part of. so why should anyone trust that they will handle nukes responsably???

www.iaea.org...

www.iaea.org...

Hopefully we'll get to see the report soon. I believe a dilligent inspection will be completed. Nuclear energy is a stepping stone in the process of building an economy. Do you really think they can afford to power their country with oil and gas prices skyrocketing?

We use a lot of coal to supplement. I don't believe they have that luxury. Although i could very well be wrong about this (them not having coal supplies).

They aren't asking for nuclear weapons. All they want is nuclear energy. Like i said previously, pakistan and india both have nukes. A LT General from the pakistan military wired 100,000$ to mohammad atta in the weeks preceeeding 9/11. Maybe next time he'll be wiring a nuclear bomb.

How do you know they have "40,000 suicide bombers"? where did you retrieve these statistics from?

It is no countries intrest to harbor terrorism of any kind. It undermines their authority and influence on their society. Saddam hussein was very stern about not allowing terrorists on his soil. If i recall correctly, he had clashes with the taliban.

Originally posted by tsensel
www.iaea.org...

www.iaea.org...

Nuclear energy is a stepping stone in the process of building an economy. Do you really think they can afford to power their country with oil and gas prices skyrocketing?

We use a lot of coal to supplement. I don't believe they have that luxury. Although i could very well be wrong about this (them not having coal supplies).

One of Irans resources is Uranium, and you are right about Atomic energy, why should they waste finite resources even though they have oil in their backyard when they can use something that won't take from their economy. Do all Wheat farmers have their own bakeries even though they have access to wheat? Oil won't last forever and with their knowledge of uranium enrichment they can supply other countries with fuel and insure their future and provide clen energy to other less fortunate countries without it.


Pie

do you guy's really think that iran needs nuclear energy with all the oil & natural gas that they possess gas in iraq is a nickle a gallon so how bad could iran need nuclear energy.. ok so no one has really said they cant have it . russia offered to enrich their uranium for them but that wasnt good enough ....but why???

i'll tell you why because enriching their own is the only way they can get weapons grade uranium

also here is the link to the 40,000 suicide bombers





www.timesonline.co.uk...

you can atack me all you want pieman but you still have not answered ZMAX !!!

[edit on 30-4-2006 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by tsensel
Nuclear energy is a stepping stone in the process of building an economy. Do you really think they can afford to power their country with oil and gas prices skyrocketing?

Thr domestic prices for Iranian oil ARE NOT skyrocketing, what you think it costs them the same rates as the west pays

They aren't asking for nuclear weapons. All they want is nuclear energy. Like i said previously, pakistan and india both have nukes. A LT General from the pakistan military wired 100,000$ to mohammad atta in the weeks preceeeding 9/11. Maybe next time he'll be wiring a nuclear bomb.

Iran does wnat a nuclear weapons not just nuclear power, otherwise why would they reject Russia's offer to enrich the Uranium - the self suffiecny argument they parrot doesn't hold weight.

How do you know they have "40,000 suicide bombers"? where did you retrieve these statistics from?

Hmm how about straight from the horse mouth.

IRAN has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation’s nuclear sites are attacked. According to Iranian officials, 40,000 trained suicide bombers are ready for action.

The main force, named the Special Unit of Martyr Seekers in the Revolutionary Guards, was first seen last month when members marched in a military parade, dressed in olive-green uniforms with explosive packs around their waists and detonators held high.

Dr Hassan Abbasi, head of the Centre for Doctrinal Strategic Studies in the Revolutionary Guards, said in a speech that 29 western targets had been identified: “We are ready to attack American and British sensitive points if they attack Iran’s nuclear facilities.” He added that some of them were “quite close” to the Iranian border in Iraq.

At a recruiting station in Tehran recently, volunteers for the force had to show their birth certificates, give proof of their address and tick a box stating whether they would prefer to attack American targets in Iraq or Israeli targets.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

It is no countries intrest to harbor terrorism of any kind. It undermines their authority and influence on their society. Saddam hussein was very stern about not allowing terrorists on his soil. If i recall correctly, he had clashes with the taliban.

Yes Saddam didn't harbour terrorists as he was a secular leader and quite rightly didn't want radicals running around. The Iranians on the other hand are not secular and seem to want to try and promote Islam through terrorist means. They fund several international terrorist groups such as Hezbollah etc.

Trained suicide bombers? Please don't make me laugh!

How can you train somebody to be a suicide bomber? Think about it, people!

Seriously though, all you can do is show somebody how to put on the jacket or sit on a bomb. You cannot train them how to press the switch or push the button.

Originally posted by fritz
Trained suicide bombers? Please don't make me

laugh!

How can you train somebody to be a suicide bomber? Think about it, people!

Seriously though, all you can do is show somebody how to put on the jacket or sit on a bomb. You cannot train them how to press the switch or push the button.

I imagine the training would be indoctrination to allow them to carry out their homicide bombing without any qualms. Also, how to conceal suiced bombs etc. There would be training so they couls infiltrate their specific targets etc.

Originally posted by mad scientist
Thr domestic prices for Iranian oil ARE NOT skyrocketing, what you think it costs them the same rates as the west pays

What the hell do you think opec is?

All oil is priced in USD. Iran and venezuela have both threatened to price their oil in euros.

Iran does wnat a nuclear weapons not just nuclear power, otherwise why would they reject Russia's offer to enrich the Uranium - the self suffiecny argument they parrot doesn't hold weight.

I'm glad you think we're entitled to it. But other people arent because you're scared.

Hmm how about straight from the horse mouth.

IRAN has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation’s nuclear sites are attacked. According to Iranian officials, 40,000 trained suicide bombers are ready for action.

Wow this is very intresting. It's the first time i've heard about this. I'll have to look up the context and verify from other sources. As of recent all american and UK news in regards to iran has been taken out of context and slanted. So you can never be too sure.

Considering that we threw over their country in a coup and placed the Shaw of iran in power. Simply because the UK asked Eisenhower to because iran was accusing UK of ripping off its natural resources (oil). Knowing what the shaw did. Could you really blame them?

If someone overthrew my country for that reason, I would definately hate them. Then you have Itola Komani eventually raising enough popular support for a rebellion. The shaw is overthrown, and the iranian state we now know was installed. This is what the CIA calls "blowback".

Defined as, "Unintended consequences of foreign operations without the publics knowledge".

This is why your average american comes up with questions like "Why do they hate us?". They don't see the bigger picture.



[edit on 30-4-2006 by tsensel]

Originally posted by the_sentinal
do you guy's really think that iran needs nuclear energy with all the oil & natural gas that they possess gas in iraq is a nickle a gallon so how bad could iran need nuclear energy.. ok so no one has really said they cant have it . russia offered to enrich their uranium for them but that wasnt good enough ....but why???

i'll tell you why because enriching their own is the only way they can get weapons grade uranium

you can atack me all you want pieman but you still have not answered ZMAX !!!

[edit on 30-4-2006 by the_sentinal]

We have both Gas and Oil , plus refineries here in the USA yet we still have Nuclear Power plants as well as newer ones planned for future use. So whats your point? A fuel rod typically lasts for about 7 years and with newer processes over 10 years and thats from one fuel rod. Why should they waste a resource that they can sell on the open market for 70.00 a barrel? To appease and make Israel and the US feel comfortable? I don't think so and it is not fair to expect that from 2 nations that use nuclear power and nuclear weaponry.

Since you are so up to date on israel. Let me ask you...does some other country enrich their Uranium? I doubt it very much. So why should it be expected of them to enrich uranium offsite?

Sorry the_sentinal but you were the one who tossed the bias word around. If you consider that I placed before you the proof to back myself up that it is you being biased, then so be it. I didn't make those posts, you did. I don't post messages everytime Israel drops a bomb on innocent people and start crying about the sky falling, but if you post a message that I have a different opinion about, I will voice it regardless of what you think. Why post such topics if you are going to tell people replying that they are Biased? That would be something I'd consider to be trolling if you are just looking to post a message and only expect messages that were in agreement with your ideas.

Originally posted by tsensel

Originally posted by mad scientist
Thr domestic prices for Iranian oil ARE NOT skyrocketing, what you think it costs them the same rates as the west pays

What the hell do you think opec is?

All oil is priced in USD. Iran and venezuela have both threatened to price their oil in euros.

So what ? Iran doesn't pay OPEC prices for its own oil, DUH.

Iran does wnat a nuclear weapons not just nuclear power, otherwise why would they reject Russia's offer to enrich the Uranium - the self suffiecny argument they parrot doesn't hold weight.

I'm glad you think we're entitled to it. But other people arent because you're scared.

Gee, I wonder why people would be scared of a fundamentalist Iran gaining nuclear weapons Maybe it's because of their history of sponsoring terrorism and callous disregard of the lives of their people.

Wow this is very intresting. It's the first time i've heard about this. I'll have to look up the context and verify from other sources. As of recent all american and UK news in regards to iran has been taken out of context and slanted. So you can never be too sure.

Yeah yeah whatever LOL, you are more enlightened. SHame about your spelling it's Shah of Iran and Ayotollah Khormeni.

www.iranfocus.com...

"Tehran, Iran, Feb. 13 – A senior commander of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) vowed that following the printing of insulting cartoons of Islam’s prophet Muhammad in European dailies, the Islamic Republic’s suicide volunteers abroad were being placed on readiness alert to attack Unites States and Israeli interests."

"a Brigadier General in the IRGC, said, “Now that America is after gaining allies against the righteous Islamic Republic and wants to attack our sanctities, members of the martyrdom-seeking garrisons across the world have been put on alert so that if the Islamic Republic of Iran receives the smallest threat, the American and Israeli strategic interests will be burnt down everywhere”."

Sounds like they're just trying to defend themselves.. He's simply saying that america is pulling up allies to gang up on iran.

"“America and any other power cannot win in the unbalanced war against us”."

Sounds like they're going after unconventional warfare after seeing it's effectiveness in iraq and afghanistan. Honestly, the only way to be a technological superior enemy is to drag him into a guerilla fight on your own turf. It levels the odds.

It's what I would do. Although I dont know about the whole suicide bomber thing. That just seems a little rediculous. Isn't it enough to just blow things up? Why do you have to kill yourself?

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
We have both Gas and Oil , plus refineries here in the USA yet we still have Nuclear Power plants as well as newer ones planned for future use. So whats your point? A fuel rod typically lasts for about 7 years and with newer processes over 10 years and thats from one fuel rod. Why should they waste a resource that they can sell on the open market for 70.00 a barrel? To appease and make Israel and the US feel comfortable? I don't think so and it is not fair to expect that from 2 nations that use nuclear power and nuclear weaponry.

You cannot compare the US consumption of energy to Iran's it is completely irrelevant. The US needs nuclear power otherwise they wouldn't be able to meet their power needs, oil alone just ins't enough.
As for Iran and it's nuclear program, it is far cheaper for them to use their own oil and gas in conventioanl power stations rather than build nuclear power.

Since you are so up to date on israel. Let me ask you...does some other country enrich their Uranium? I doubt it very much. So why should it be expected of them to enrich uranium offsite?

Erm it has nothing to do with Israel, they already have nuclear weapons. The Iranians on the other hand say they don't want nuclear weapons therefore, they have no need to have fuel enrichment technology. As stated before Russia said they'd be happy to do it. - why doesn't Iran take up that offer ?

Originally posted by mad scientist
So what ? Iran doesn't pay OPEC prices for its own oil, DUH.

And you think that they can honestly run all their energy needs off of oil from their country? They will have to import energy as they build their economy. Will they have to pay opec prices? Yes.

What is a good way to avoid this?

Supplement a large portion of your oil/gas power plants with nuclear facilities. This also frees up energy which can be sold on the market as stated before. At 70$ a barrel, it's almost more expensive than solar!

Gee, I wonder why people would be scared of a fundamentalist Iran gaining nuclear weapons

Maybe it's because of their history of sponsoring terrorism and callous disregard of the lives of their people.

Really? I think its because people watch too much fox news with.. TERROR ALERT HIGH scrolling across the bottom of the screen constantly.

Then you have the vice president saying "its not if but when". But yet, our border is wide open? You'd think that if there was a serious threat they would not allow our border to be wide open. 3,000,000+ illegals flow to america every year, most are mexican, some are iraqi, some are irani, some are lebanese, among others from central american countries. Then you have pakistani officials wiring money to lead terrorist hijackers from 9/11. Pakistan has nukes. Maybe next time "our friend" will be wiring a nuclear bomb, and they'll bring it across the mexican border. It makes you wonder what's really going on.

Yeah yeah whatever LOL, you are more enlightened. SHame about your spelling it's Shah of Iran and Ayotollah Khormeni.

Does it matter as long as the point in proper context is conveyed?

"Your search - Ayotollah Khormeni - did not match any documents. "

Smarty pants.



[edit on 30-4-2006 by tsensel]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by the_sentinal
do you guy's really think that iran needs nuclear energy with all the oil & natural gas that they possess gas in iraq is a nickle a gallon so how bad could iran need nuclear energy.. ok so no one has really said they cant have it . russia offered to enrich their uranium for them but that wasnt good enough ....but why???

i'll tell you why because enriching their own is the only way they can get weapons grade uranium

you can atack me all you want pieman but you still have not answered ZMAX !!!

[edit on 30-4-2006 by the_sentinal]

We have both Gas and Oil , plus refineries here in the USA yet we still have Nuclear Power plants as well as newer ones planned for future use. So whats your point? A fuel rod typically lasts for about 7 years and with newer processes over 10 years and thats from one fuel rod. Why should they waste a resource that they can sell on the open market for 70.00 a barrel? To appease and make Israel and the US feel comfortable? I don't think so and it is not fair to expect that from 2 nations that use nuclear power and nuclear weaponry.

Since you are so up to date on israel. Let me ask you...does some other country enrich their Uranium? I doubt it very much. So why should it be expected of them to enrich uranium offsite?

Sorry the_sentinal but you were the one who tossed the bias word around. If you consider that I placed before you the proof to back myself up that it is you being biased, then so be it. I didn't make those posts, you did. I don't post messages everytime Israel drops a bomb on innocent people and start crying about the sky falling, but if you post a message that I have a different opinion about, I will voice it regardless of what you think. Why post such topics if you are going to tell people replying that they are Biased? That would be something I'd consider to be trolling if you are just looking to post a message and only expect messages that were in agreement with your ideas.

i've watched your post's on other boards pieman and you are anti israel and that's ok if that is how you feel... i'm not anti - islam just anti terrorist so where is the dividing line ?? that is the subject of another debate, suffice to say that terrorism has found a home within islam. and people have a hard time diccussing the topics without being a little biased one way or the other. i've put my 2 cents in on other threads and gotten called out for being biased. it happens , but i didnt attack the person who disagreed with me!!

Originally posted by tsensel

Originally posted by mad scientist
So what ? Iran doesn't pay OPEC prices for its own oil, DUH.

And you think that they can honestly run all their energy needs off of oil from their country? They will have to import energy as they build their economy. Will they have to pay opec prices? Yes.

What is a good way to avoid this?

Supplement a large portion of your oil/gas power plants with nuclear facilities. This also frees up energy which can be sold on the market as stated before. At 70$ a barrel, it's almost more expensive than solar!

Well the fact is as you like to point out, Iran is an OPEC ( Oil Producing EXPORTING Countries ) member. Obviously they have more than enough oil to meet their own needs as they are a major oil exporter. Their economy could double in size and they'd still hvae enough oil for themselves and enough to export.

AS has been said previously, nuclear power for Iran is more expensive than using their own oil.



[edit on 30-4-2006 by mad scientist]