Should Israel Have Nukes???

jordanian king abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free middle east and is calling on the international community to pressure israel to dismantle it's nuclear arsenal....my question is should israel have nukes?? because without them i believe they would be overthrown in a instant....so what's the answer?? israel showed great restraint when saddam sent his scuds into the heart of israel ....and for all that they never once retaliated so did they show enough restraint to warrent nuclear capability??

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nobody should ever have nukes. these are evil weapons.

millions of babies get slaughtered. man, thats pure evil. every nation should disarm its stockpiles.

How did Israeil show great restraint against Sadame, they were ordered by America not to do anything, and a nuclear strike would of been completely over the top and wrong. Israeil obviously needs nukes for it`s protection but why is it there in the first place? becasue they stole the country from the Palestinians whatever way you lok at it.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
nobody should ever have nukes. these are evil weapons.

Sure. Oppenheimer and Einstein thought that too. Still made them. Nobody should be stingy either, Jesus thought that. Doesn't change the way the world is.
Do we have a right to tell them that they don't have the right to have them? From their viewpoint it seems to be in their own best interest.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
How did Israeil show great restraint against Sadame, they were ordered by America not to do anything, and a nuclear strike would of been completely over the top and wrong. Israeil obviously needs nukes for it`s protection but why is it there in the first place? becasue they stole the country from the Palestinians whatever way you lok at it.

sure they were ordered to.... but they had no obligation to once the scuds started landing... the restraint was incrediable remember seeing all those people wearing gas mask's....remember also that it wasnt just a conventional strike it was a possible chemical or biological strike so (orders or no orders ) they at that point had the right to defend themselves but chose to refrain

I don't see any problem with it. As long as IRAN, North Korea, Syria, Libia, Venezuela and the rest of the countries which print their own money (those against the world banking cartels) get to have them too.

They're horrible weapons and they should all be dismantled. But if a people feel that it will give them security then so be it. They have that right.

Sentinel...no offense....but if you believe that Huessein sent in BIO weapons against Isreal, that sir is where you would be wrong. If and I stress the word IF Saddam had done that believe me it would have come up in the run-up to the war in Iraq.

I agree with Peruvianmonk on both points....A) The US told Isreal not to retaliate and right now the only and i mean ONLY ally Isreal has is the US...and B) Isreal stole thier land....so any and all reprecutions they pay by the palestian people or any Arabs for that matter is in my mind justified.

Now as per TOtal Nuclear Dismantlement...that would rock...the only problem is that The fallicous Cold War has already taught us that not even the US can succesfully disable thier nukes... Governments just wont take the risk...and thats what really sucks about the whole situation...the PEOPLE want to get rid of Nukes but the world governments do not because they dont want to lose power.

But back on to Topic...should Isreal have nukes...aside from the fact that no one should have Nukes I defintally dont think Isreal should have nukes. They dont need it for defense...see Seven Days war. The Isreali government spends more money percentage wise then any other country on Military expanison and build up. They can take care of themselves....But letting Isreal have nukes outright will only destabilize the region more. A Nuclear Isreal will almost gauruntee that some uber radical Imam or ayatolla(spelling?) will come out and demand a preemptive strike against Isreal. The middle east does not need nukes....the United States doesnt need nukes and N. Korea and China both REALLY dont need nukes...but thats just my opionion.

El senor pom pom rides again

I could have sworn that Isreal already had Nuclear Weapons. They aquired the technology from the British and the parts from different countries. I do know that in the 60's when the US learned that Isreal did have a nuclear weapons they were pissed and did the investigation, finding out that they got the know how from the British.

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
Sentinel...no offense....but if you believe that Huessein sent in BIO weapons against Isreal, that sir is where you would be wrong.

El senor pom pom rides again

sorry you missunderstood what i said was it was a POSSIBLE chemical or biological attack at the time no one knew what it would be!! the potential was certainly there for it to be more than conventional and what restraint on the part of israel waiting untill after detonation to see if retaliation was in order.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
I could have sworn that Isreal already had Nuclear Weapons. They aquired the technology from the British and the parts from different countries. I do know that in the 60's when the US learned that Isreal did have a nuclear weapons they were pissed and did the investigation, finding out that they got the know how from the British.

Correct, Israel has somewhere on the order of 100 tactical nuclear missles from the last report I heard. All of them came from the US.

...

Sentinel...no offense....but if you believe that Huessein sent in BIO weapons against Isreal, that sir is where you would be wrong. If and I stress the word IF Saddam had done that believe me it would have come up in the run-up to the war in Iraq."

This is correct, saddam hussein had never used the chemical and biologicals weapons he had. Most of these were destroyed in the fst gulf war. I think it would look bad if the people were to discoveirr that the people who sold iraq their chemical and biological WMDS was the US and UK governments. From what i understand, Donald Rumsfeld was the delivery boy. He met saddam and is the one that actually signed, sealed, and delivered the weapons.

There is 1 video tape i saw, the only one in existance to my knowledge. It was during the first gulf war at a bunker complex in southern iraq. There were something on the order of 20 under ground bunkers, each the size of a super walmart. Filled to the brim with weapons. Chemical and biologicals taped in this video show color coding, english, and french writing. Color coding is how the american military codes its chemicals and biologicals.

Should something exist that allready does?

The reigon is allready destabalized as heck due stuff they have allready done, but mostly other things. Like the whole rise of fanaticsum, and war against 'the west'.

Originally posted by jazz_psyker
Should something exist that allready does?

The reigon is allready destabalized as heck due stuff they have allready done, but mostly other things. Like the whole rise of fanaticsum, and war against 'the west'.

the problem is that the jordanian king want israel to disarm...i did not mean that israel did not already have them

The only country that deserves nukes is one that that properly seperates religion from government and tries to unite the world together through diplomacy. Too bad such a country doesnt exist

I think that if Iran puts down their nuclear plans then Isreal shouldnt consider nuclear weaponry (even though they already have it) just because it wouldnt be fair (but then again, the "zionist agenda" isnt exactly fair).

If we all did away with nukes then war would be much more interesting. I think we should do away with bombs all together and revisit our ground assault potentials when war was manly . Imagine invading a country with assault robots controled by marines back home using a computer. Maybe we should do away with guns too and then we can all get really good at swordfighting like ninjas. I want to play!

Could have wars decided by contests.

Hey hey hey, thats how david and goliath story happened (ironic because you know we are talking about isreal), they realized "hey less blood is sheed if we just let two champions from each side determin who wins". While a lot of the things that far in past can be said pretty unethical, but this one idea outshines most ideas of ethics in modern war.

Mabey might not even have to be a glatorial duel, could be another game like chess. Mabey a card-game, like magic the gathering.

For so and so disputed land a contest would take place, and the winner gets the land. New contests would be around every year or so, so then even if you lose 'for now' you can try to win latter.

Nukes are proven deterents, they are the largest factor as to why the Cold War never turned in WW3.

The Israeli government refuses to officially confirm or deny that it has a nuclear weapon program. But common sense says they indeed have weapons by most estimates approximately 100-200 nuclear weapons.

The truth is there isnt a chance on earth Israel is going to disarm its nuclear arsenal. Not when nations that called for their destruction multiple times are suspected of developing their own nukes in that area.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX


The truth is there isnt a chance on earth Israel is going to disarm its nuclear arsenal. Not when nations that called for their destruction multiple times are suspected of developing their own nukes in that area.

so your saying that they should not disarm..even if iran halts their nuclear ambitions??

Originally posted by the_sentinal


so your saying that they should not disarm..even if iran halts their nuclear ambitions??

Im not saying they should or shouldn't, just that realistically they aint going to disarm. Even if Iran claims to halt their nuclear program they are never going to trust the word of a nation that called for them to be wiped off the map.

Also unlike Iran, Israel never signed the NPT which is what prevents Iran from having nukes. If you didnt sign the NPT there is no legal backing to why any nation shouldnt have nuclear weapons.

[edit on 25-4-2006 by ShadowXIX]

For a comprehensive history of bomb development, may I recommend the following books, both by Richard Rhodes -

The Making of the Atomic Bomb

Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb

The latter book contains a fairly detailed account of the Soviet bomb project.

Bibliophile

PS - My apologies for this OT post, but a previous poster mentioned Oppenheimer and Einstein. I felt a more thorough understanding of bomb development might be of interest to some members.

Einstein was dubious of the project even before it began. Oppenheimer's opinion on nuclear weapons gelled after the Trinity shot.

[edit on 4/25/2006 by Bibliophile]

Check your histories, everyone. Nukes are the only thing which has kept the arabs at bay for so long. After the Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, etc. it has been proved almost every nation will co-ordinate against Israel if given the slightest opportunity. Jordan has invaded numerous times, and will again unless there is a nuclear deterrent.

DE

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
I could have sworn that Isreal already had Nuclear Weapons. They aquired the technology from the British and the parts from different countries. I do know that in the 60's when the US learned that Isreal did have a nuclear weapons they were pissed and did the investigation, finding out that they got the know how from the British.

Just to set the record straight to avoid confusion...

Israel developed nukes in the following way...

France helped develop a 24 MW nuclear reactor at Dimora obstensibly for power generation. In reality the Israeli aim was the production of weapons-grade fissile material with the aid of an associated reprocessing plant. France tried in May 1960 to get the Israelis to "go public" and open the facilities for international scientific inspection. A US U-2 spy planes eventually uncovered the Israeli intentions and Kennedy eventually got US scientists to visit the facilities seven times in the 1960s, but this did not stop the Israelis.

Israel produced their first weapon in 1968 and manufactured air-dropped bombs and 175mm / 203mm artillary shells, as well as their version of the "neutron bomb".

By 1995 Israel had manufactured circa 100 air-dropped low-yield bombs and 8-100 other devices ranging from 0.1kT weapons to weapons for the Jericho missile. The Jericho missile was derived from the MD-620 design. It is estimated that Israel has up to 400 nukes at this time.

Israel has not signed the non-proliferation treaty and in the mid 1970s gave assistance to the South African efforts.

The UK and the US had no part in the Israeli nuclear programme.

Regards