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Is Russia an Official Terrorist Nation?

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posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 07:50 AM
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Dana--have you ever experienced some bad brush with some Russians/Russian Government before? Your language use is highly indicative of this. Labelling all Russians as drug addicts and criminals can be insulting, is rude and disrespectful. I don't label all muslims as terrorists, do I?

Your list's from human rights sources do little to further your cause. That's right--your pulling your information out of biased sources to begin with. Human rights abuses are inevitable in wars because wars are ugly. The strategy behind the Russian war in Chechnya is fully legitimate. Get over yourself and stop your suicidal rants.




posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Liquidus

You make me sick. So you are saying that it is ok to kill HUNDREDS of INNOCENT CHILDREN to get a point across? That has got to be the most disguisting and disturbing thing I have heard from anyone on these forums.




You make me more sick. russian criminal army killed all these children not chechens. It is ok for an idiot like you when russians keep systemically slaughtering millions of chechen for the last 300 years, because russian regular army is commiting these genocides. but when chechen fighters try to draw the world's attention by taking hostages, it is a big crime even that they didn't kill a single hostage, end every hypocrite westerner knows that russian army commited all thes masacres.


Your rant about their "occupation" is so historically biased it's not even funny. When the Soviet Union was formed, one of the first and outmost priorities was to build schools, hospitals, and basic infrastructure in most all of the southern republics to EDUCATE these people and incorporate them into a peaceful, political apparatus from their barbaric lifeystyle.


Are you idiot?No way that barbarians like russians to improve the living standard of chechens?

I went to chechnia 15 years ago, chechens were living, in communities without any water or sewage systems. trying to live by selling honey , milk products,...etc.
I saw a few old , torn down hospitals and schools. One of the chechens told me , that if you got sick and go to the hospital in chechnya you are doomed. so i asked him why the standard of living is so declining, and they are living in very primitive conditions, even chechny owns lots of natural resources, like (oil , gold, uranium, etc.) comparing to arab gulf countries you are living like cave men. he told me that russia for the last 300 years, is robbing all, not most, chechen natural resources, and they offer them bits of the chechen fortunes. this is your great russia, Mr. Liquidu. Russia the PARASITE.


Ok so you might as well say that the U.S. should give up parts of California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas just because they belonged to Mexico 150 years ago. Oh and we might as well let the Indians roam free on the land which used to be theirs.


why not? anyway the mexicans are back and they will be the majority soon in the US.



Really I hope that you understand that Chechnya is BETTER off with Russia rather than an independent muslim country. Given their religious/ethnic/ideological cleavages, an independent Chechnya would suffer an economic breakdown and would go into turmoil the minute they would secede.


You are very wrong, if russian barbarians could establish a state and survive, todate, chechens will establish very modern state as any other tiny country in this world,and chechens have right to establish thier own state (like jews or other small nations) and they are not asking for your permission to do that.


What's more important is that to Russia this is a matter of NATIONAL SECURITY,


Screw russian national security, even the great britian empire had collapsed at the end, and who are the russian beggars comparing to great britain.



posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by dana2006
you forced them to threaten 300 children, FYI ,russian stinking army killed these 300 children by bombing the school and using artillry to demolish the whole building.


You never replied to my above post..So I assume you agree with that..
Ok..
Nobody in their right mind will ever be FORCED to threaten children..
Nobody in their right mind will EVER believe that any sane person (oppressed or not) will be forced to threaten children.
How can you even say that??!!!
I'm very disappointed, disgusted even..
I've been on ATS a long time and I've read a few shocking things.. this is a new high..

And FYI the terrorists took 1200+ children hostage not 300..

What are you, a chechen renegade?
No really.. because you're saying things that defy human morality...
"Forced to threaten children" it seems...



posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by dana2006
because russian regular army is commiting these genocides.


What genocides? The genocide movement against terrorists?



but when chechen fighters try to draw the world's attention by taking hostages, it is a big crime even that they didn't kill a single hostage.


If they did not resort to violence there would not be Russian millitary presence.



Are you idiot?No way that barbarians like russians to improve the living standard of chechens?


No, I'm not an idiot. Yes, believe it or not the Russian government does care about providing for it's citizens. Recently Russia even staged a massive rock concert in Grozny free of charge. Don't bring up any of the 17th century crap either.



I went to chechnia 15 years ago, chechens were living, in communities without any water or sewage systems. trying to live by selling honey , milk products,...etc.
I saw a few old , torn down hospitals and schools. One of the chechens told me , that if you got sick and go to the hospital in chechnya you are doomed. so i asked him why the standard of living is so declining, and they are living in very primitive conditions, even chechny owns lots of natural resources, like (oil , gold, uranium, etc.) comparing to arab gulf countries you are living like cave men. he told me that russia for the last 300 years, is robbing all, not most, chechen natural resources, and they offer them bits of the chechen fortunes. this is your great russia, Mr. Liquidu. Russia the PARASITE.


Ok now you are starting to make a little more sense. So you went to Chechnya and you saw the destruction, the poverty and the starvation. So now you think that Chechnya would be better off in the hands of terrorists. Well let me tell you something. I have been to Russia. Do you think that I did not see all those things?! Open your eyes! You honestly think that Russia is stripping Chechnya of resources? Well Chechnya IS Russia! The only people who are stripping this republic of resources is the terrorists. Kids are not safe in their schools because of these terrorists. They are the cause of destruction.

Take for example Nigeria. They once used to be known as "the bread basket of Africa". They are a very resource rich country. Why is Nigeria still one of the poorest nations in the world? Because of an individualistic approach where it's one man for himself, and those in government rob the people of the wealth generated. You seem to think that if Chechnya secedes, it would land in calm waters. The truth is exactly opposite.



why not? anyway the mexicans are back and they will be the majority soon in the US.


Ok. So you should be fine with Russia keeping Chechnya since they are a minority. I see...



You are very wrong, if russian barbarians could establish a state and survive, todate, chechens will establish very modern state as any other tiny country in this world,and chechens have right to establish thier own state (like jews or other small nations) and they are not asking for your permission to do that.


So if the jews did it it then it must be ok! Very modern terrorist state that is...



posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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I guess that in some peoples minds it is okay to use the threat of violence against children. I think somebody on here needs to be given the worlds biggest douche award. I think you know who you are. Oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. Too bad. I have to.



posted on Apr, 27 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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I know that not many members of the board can read Russian, and yet those who do might want to see the following link regarding the ethnic cleansing the Chechen perpetrated against the Russian civilians.

[Non-English links removed]

There was a billboard in central Grozny saying "Russians, don't leave -- we need slaves"

[Mod edit: Links to non-English websites are removed. English is the language of this board and for ease of use and Moderation it is required that all contributions and linked pages be such too - Jak]

[edit on 1/5/06 by JAK]



posted on Apr, 28 2006 @ 05:44 PM
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Aelita, I cannot read Russian. Which countries in history would answer this question: Chechnya is to Russia as ... is to ...?



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 01:10 AM
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If you're asking in terms of similar situations around the world today then the the obvious one that comes to mind is :

..as Kashmir is to India.
Very very similar..



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 08:54 PM
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Daedalus3, the muslim vs. non-muslim connection. I would completely and nonviolently (I would not be a Christian if it were violent) convert the whole world to Christianity if I could.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

You never replied to my above post..So I assume you agree with that..
Ok..



I didn't reply, because it is waste of effort and time, to answer your questions. you keep asking the same questions, even that I answered all of them, I doubt you are a stupid or pretend that you didn't see my answers . Plus , my experience shows me , that it is useles to discuss anything with ablind , deaf, anti chechen, anti -islam racist.

I want to sumurize your argument: you think russian mass killings and genocide of chechens for 300 years is justified, because , these criminal acts are done by russian regular army using conventional weapons. the chechen fight with russian occupying army and their operations against russians, are considered, TERRORISM, for you and all westerners, and it is not justified because it's not conventional fighting. it is a must for chechens to kill only russian soldiers, but it's ok for russians to kill chechen women , elders, and children. you call this logic?!i call this western racists' crap. You ignorance, arrogance prejudice, intolerance, prevent you to see the facts, plus you don't want to see the truth becuase you don't like it, so you keep repeating this nonsense that all chechens are terrorists and the poor russian pigs are not terrorists because their massacres in chechnya is done systimatically using conventional aramy and weapons...shame on you ...all westerners disgudt me.


Nobody in their right mind will ever be FORCED to threaten children..



what about hundred of thousand of chechen children [Insult removed] ...did you hear about Samashki massacre? I read about it on Newsweek...it's only one of hundreds of rusiian massacres in chenya in the last 15 years...oh I forgot that it's justified for russians to do massacres and forbidden to chechens.




No really.. because you're saying things that defy human morality...
"Forced to threaten children" it seems...


you [insult removed] dare to talk about morals....shame on you.

[Mod Edit: Insults removed - Jak]

[edit on 1/5/06 by JAK]



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by sammael
I guess that in some peoples minds it is okay to use the threat of violence against children. I think somebody on here needs to be given the worlds biggest douche award. I think you know who you are. Oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. Too bad. I have to.


why don't you just shuuttt-uuupp...you ignorant racist, first ,read and watch what russian pigs did in chechnya in 300 years then argue with me in this matter, if chechens took 300 hundred children hostages and brave russian police blew them to pieces by artilly, it is nothing comparing to the hundreds of thousands chechen children who were raped and slaughtered by russian criminal army. you think you can intimidate me by writing this nonsense...ha ... you are really ....racist stupid.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by Aelita
I know that not many members of the board can read Russian, and yet those who do might want to see the following link regarding the ethnic cleansing the Chechen perpetrated against the Russian civilians.




displaced from where? from chechnya to russia, don't you get it you stupid, what 300,000 russians are doing in chechnya? what about deporting more than 1 million chechen in 1944, from their country to Siberia on cattle trains, half of them perished enroute, uncounted numbers of them where died from the harsh conditions in siberia. where is the logic and morality in your argument, you are weeping about the russian aggressors and accuse chechen victims of dispalceing russian pigs from chechnya to thier stinking country. how did you fabricate and find this lie , from one of many russian criminal governmen'ts news sources.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by dana2006


I didn't reply, because it is waste of effort and time, to answer your questions. you keep asking the same questions, even that I answered all of them, I doubt you are a stupid or pretend that you didn't see my answers . Plus , my experience shows me , that it is useles to discuss anything with ablind , deaf, anti chechen, anti -islam racist.

I want to sumurize your argument: you think russian mass killings and genocide of chechens for 300 years is justified, because , these criminal acts are done by russian regular army using conventional weapons. the chechen fight with russian occupying army and their operations against russians, are considered, TERRORISM, for you and all westerners, and it is not justified because it's not conventional fighting. it is a must for chechens to kill only russian soldiers, but it's ok for russians to kill chechen women , elders, and children. you call this logic?!i call this western racists' crap. You ignorance, arrogance prejudice, intolerance, prevent you to see the facts, plus you don't want to see the truth becuase you don't like it, so you keep repeating this nonsense that all chechens are terrorists and the poor russian pigs are not terrorists because their massacres in chechnya is done systimatically using conventional aramy and weapons...shame on you ...all westerners disgudt me.


That about hundred of thousand of chechen children you a****hole...did you hear about Samashki massacre? I read about it on Newsweek...it's only one of hundreds of rusiian massacres in chenya in the last 15 years...oh I forgot that it's justified for russians to do massacres and forbidden to chechens.

you pro -criminal russians pig dare to talk about morals....shame on you.


Firstly I am not Russian.. neither am I a westerner..
I am definitely more eastern than you are..

Secondly, whatever say.. you're metphorical kicks, screams and rants on this thread
will not get Chechnya independance..
The west won't listen anymore either.. They're scared stiff with the war on terror and supporting islamic militants is not feasible for them anymore..
So instead of sitting in some western country like you are just now and screaming your head off dishing out insults to ppl from all over the world.. I think you should go back to Chechnya and strap on some C4 to your chest.. Take some kids hostage if you will.. Revenge you call right? go ahead.. Better than sitting and givnig the chechens some baaaaaddd PR..



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by Liquidus


What genocides? The genocide movement against terrorists?


this a complet proof that you are 100% stupid and racist.




If they did not resort to violence there would not be Russian millitary presence.


did chechens try to conquer russia for more than 300 years? did chechen deported more tha 1 million russian to siberia on cattle trains, only one third of them returned to their country after 12 years? did chechens flattened and demolished all russian cities and towns? did chechens mass murdered 200,000 russian civilians in 15 years? are chechen ocuppying russia for more than 300 years?
guess who started the violence, you stupid....the RUSSIANS.



No, I'm not an idiot. Yes, believe it or not the Russian government does care about providing for it's citizens. Recently Russia even staged a massive rock concert in Grozny free of charge.



SCREW THEIR ROCK CONCERT , CHECHEN DON'T NEED STINKING RUSSIAN ROCK CONCERTS, THEY WANT THEIR COUNTRY AND RIGHTS BACK.


Don't bring up any of the 17th century crap either.


Chechens will never forget, and as jews took back their so-called promised land which was occupied for more than 3000 years, chechens will do the same , because chechen- struggle is based on facts not 3000 years old relegious lies.



You seem to think that if Chechnya secedes, it would land in calm waters. The truth is exactly opposite.



It is none of your business what will chechens do when secede from criminal russia. who are you to judge a great nation like chechens? shame on you, you really disgust me.
If assholes like russians and you stay away from chechen after seceding, I am very sure everyrhing will be alright.




So if the jews did it it then it must be ok! Very modern terrorist state that is...




Why not? jews used the most violent and low terrrorist tactics in history, to steal palestine from palestinians, I quote from :

 THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND U.S. FOREIGN POLICY  by     John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt .


 

 The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the 
moral high ground during this period.  This same scholarship also reveals that the
 creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit acts of ethnic cleansing,
 including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews. 
  




Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to  obtain their on state.  Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Pal estine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.56  Israeli terrorists also murdered U.N. mediator Count Folke  Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.57  Nor were the perpetrators of these acts i solated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government and one of them was  elected to the Knsset.  Another terrorist leader, who approved the murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Sh amir.  Indeed, Shamir openly argued that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of comb at.”  Rather, terrorism had “a great part to play … in our war against the occupier [Britain].”58   If the Palestinians  use of terrorism
is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel’s reliance upon it in the past, and thus one cannot justify U.S. support for Isra el on the grounds that its past conduct was morally superior.59
 


[edit on 5/1/2006 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Firstly I am not Russian.. neither am I a westerner..
I am definitely more eastern than you are..



You are the most disgusting type of human beings, you glorify western atrocities even that you know that they are aggressors, and what are they doing in chechnya is a genocide and a crime, stil you keep repeating their lies and excuses.

you know something even westerners despice hypocrites like you, who have no self-esteem or dignity. they don't respect you and will never consider you even a humman being you idiot, they are racists and consider all muslims less flies, hitler was one of them, they have same attitude and same set of mind.

you are wasting your time trying to praise them inorder they consider you as an equal...haha...dream on poor idiot.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Do you even know where I'm from..

no..
Take a guess..
According to you whoever isn't for the chechen rebel cause is inhuman, scum, etc.. etc..
Sorry.. not many support your cause except probably crazy terror groups in the Middleeast maybe..
But tell me something..You obviously don't live in Chechnya..
You pretty much live in some western country, that too I'm sure of.. Why??!..
Why don't you live in your homeland?
I don't like the idea of living in a place where there always the chance of discrmination and so I stay in my homeland..
I sincerely suggest you go home and do the same.. Your rantings here are just giving a very bad impression of the chechen people.. Either way its not helping whatever cause you may have..
So I suggest you either calm down and maybe 'engage' the forum and the international community in discussion, or you just stop.. Really..
Its high time..you can make out by the numberof members even replying to you. The others just don't seem it to be worthwhile..



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 10:14 AM
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Just look at this girl go...

Dana has a pretty unbelievable attitude even for the board where tempers run high at times. He's using a vocabulary worthy of a Chechen scholar in his arguments - as such, he routinely calls his ATS opponents stupid, disgusting and a**holes. Surefire way to get his point across, I imagine, and earn a sterling reputation on ATS. Just look at the respect paid by the board to Dana.

I mean, how can anyone argue that random killings, robberies and rapes of Russians in Grozny, by the Chechens, were not justified? That it was not an unmitigated revenge for Stalin's deportation of the Chechens in the 1940s?

According to Dana, 300,000 Russians driven out of their homes in Chechnya is a small deal, and only a Zionist could argue that it is a big deal! Only filthy westerners (that's us, my ATS friends) can come up with something as ridiculous as calling the slaughter of Russian and Ossetian schoolchildren a crime. Only "pigs" can call murderous terrorists - "murderous terrorists", instead of referring to them as glorious, brave and honorable Chechen Mujjaheddin.

One thing that Dana surely has demonstrated is the Chechen character. Which is "we are Chechens and screw you all. Wait, we'll rob and rape you before you are disembowled".


JAK

posted on May, 1 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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Enough of the personal remarks now. I'm sure everyone concerned is quite able to make their point eloquently without having to continously resort to insults.

If I am mistaken and those who wish to participate in this thread find that they cannot do so in a polite manner then it will be closed.

Terms and Conditions of Membership for the AboveTopSecret.com Message Board(s)

Thank you,

Jak



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 02:33 PM
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if russia lets chechnya free - more regions will rebel against it. eventually it would fall apart. and we would have to face dozens of "countries" like iran\iraq but with nukes. would that be better? think twice.



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Chechnya needs Jesus Christ and to a large but lesser degree Russia. Jesus Christ is the personification of Peace; Muhammad was partly a militarist.



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