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Thermite you tell me

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posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 05:45 PM
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One time... long ago
i had a copy of the Jolly Roger Cookbook. It told you how to make thermite or a substance like it using alloy filings, iron filings, magnesium and a few other ingredients.

I never tried it but the book claimed once this powder is made properly and set alight using a magnesium torch (because of the extreme temperature)
it would turn into a molten substance that with only a few grams of the stuff could burn through the engine block of a car.




posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Which proves that there were fires burning in the rubble. So what?



What fire burns that hot and under debri, a normal fire is not going to get up to 1300 degrees, and figure all the jet fuel is burned up at this point. Only 1 thing burns that hot and can burn under debri because it creates its own oxygen.

[edit on 24-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 24-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]



There was plenty of oxygen available.

There was plenty of fuel avaiable

The debris pilw was also a good insulator, keeping the heat in.



posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by The Links
We have a precision metal mfg telling us he has cut beams with acetylene torches before.


Which means nothing, eve if we choose to beleive he is who he claims to be.

Cutting up scrapp steel is nothing at all like precision cutting.

Scrappers don't even use acetylene torches, too expensive. THey use propane.


So no matter what the date turns out to be he thinks this is not a cut by a torch. I think he is correct.

Now if we could just compare a thermite cut with what is presented in this thread.



So then maybe one of you two can explain to me how the thermite made a horizontal cut in the column?

What caused the molten metal from the thermite reaction to go sideways, instead of straght down?







[edit on 24-4-2006 by HowardRoark]


SMR

posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 11:41 PM
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So office contents are enough fuel to burn over 1300+ degree ?



The debris pilw was also a good insulator, keeping the heat in.

So, what you are saying is, the buidling contents burned and got hotter and hotter and was able to keep that degree of heat and not be aloowed to deminish because, it was in this 'insulator' of sorts?
You say there was oxygen, so that must also mean that there is also air which could at any point,,, cool down this debris pile no?
[edit on 24-4-2006 by SMR]

[edit on 24-4-2006 by SMR]



posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 11:48 PM
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Back to the original post.

Here is an example of a beam cut with a torch.

Note the "blow" lines where the oxygen cut through the steel.




posted on Apr, 24 2006 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
So then maybe one of you two can explain to me how the thermite made a horizontal cut in the column?

What caused the molten metal from the thermite reaction to go sideways, instead of straght down?

Roark you should know that the direction of melt isn't going to determine squat, thermite isn't instantaneous, it burns like a sparkler and I'd venture to guess that a free falling, tumbling steel beam, the melt is likely to flow in a number of directions of which any could be 'down' at that moment. Nothing is conclusive until we find out the time that picture was taken, that would give us the context to determine what happened to that steel, but considering these guys are fire fighters and not a 'clean up' crew, I'd say you might be looking at something signifigant.

As to the sideways, in some cultures, we call that felling.


SMR

posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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Back to topic... ditching posts you cant explain again huh Howard



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by SMR
Back to topic... ditching posts you cant explain again huh Howard



Are you being a jerk when someone doesn't answer you immediately again, SMR?

Why don't YOU explain the difference between heat and temperature.

If you understand this simple concept, then maybe you will learn to understand how ridiculous it is to talk of an absolute upper bound for the temperature of a fire.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 01:03 AM
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Thermite is still the most believable explanation of how all these huge fireproof steel beams were cut/weakened. It would have taken several weeks to make cuts in the beams everywhere, even with special torches, in order to weaken the whole structure, and it would'nt have taken long until somebody would have noticed some strange demolition activity in the buildings so 9-11 would'nt have happened.

Thermite could easily have been placed on the beams overnight by a large team of undercover agents, and the whole process would have been made without much noise, sparks, fires or fumes. The thermite would have waited there for the trigger to be ignited (the explosions), and then everything would have melted within a frame of one of two hours.

One thing that was to the advantage of the ones who plotted the destruction of the buildings: security cameras of the WTC towers were obviously destroyed in the collapse of the towers, so every single proof of strange activity in the building prior to the "attacks" is most probably lost forever... unless the footage were stored in a building that was not destroyed. What I am wondering is: does anybody heard anything about the security personnel of the WTC??? What happened to them? Did they gave any testimony of all that they saw prior to the events? THe mainstream media never said anything about that, as far as I know...

[edit on 25/4/06 by Echtelion]



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 07:26 AM
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So then maybe one of you two can explain to me how the thermite made a horizontal cut in the column?

You hit the nail on the head. Termite will be pulled, by the effects of gravity, downward. as it burns it turns the metal to liquid. Therfore liquid being les dense than the thermite the thermite will "fall" down.

As far as temps go in a structure fire, 2000 degrees F is not uncommon. Look it up and use some common since.

I have seen beams cut by torches before and I have cut a few myself. It is a torch cut.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 07:49 AM
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This video from Brainiac here in England should help some people visualise how Thermite works and why it does not create neat horizontal or diagonal cuts...

Quite how you would control something burning that hot in such a way I'm not really sure


www.guzer.com...

And for entertainment, with ice:

www.yikers.com...

[edit on 25-4-2006 by AgentSmith]



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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www.infowars.com Boys go here and you can read the whole story and see videos on thermite and close up video of the stuff burning through a support beem in one of the towers!! No joke. this stuf had to have ben placed there before the planes hit what else could cause the melting of steel as shown in the video. Jet fuel could never reach a tempature to melt steel. trust me!! not even come close!

WWW.infowars.com (got to type it in )



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Ooooh!
Alex Jones, a veritable feast of unbiased, accurate, information indeed!
I don't know where to turn with the shopping cart, the books and DVDs for sale.....

Let me see how does it go again?

Give up time freely = Capitalist Government Shill

Charge for DVDs/Books = Honourable Freedom Fighter!

Please don't spam the boards with links by the way.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 08:14 AM
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How can you americans let your government do something like this?
And allow it after all evidence lol
PETHETIC Country



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
Ooooh!
Alex Jones, a veritable feast of unbiased, accurate, information indeed!
I don't know where to turn with the shopping cart, the books and DVDs for sale.....

Let me see how does it go again?

Give up time freely = Capitalist Government Shill

Charge for DVDs/Books = Honourable Freedom Fighter!

Please don't spam the boards with links by the way.


I don't agree with everything Alex Jones says or does, but that does not disqualify him from everything. In fact, America is well served by men like Alex, he has the guts to stand up and fight for things he believes in. Most of these things he is fighting to keep were ALREADY granted to us by our Constitution, something that doesn't mean very much to this Administration, nor its predecessor.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 08:54 AM
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I think if thermite was held in ceramic housings which were somhow attached to the beams,then you could direct the flow of hot thermite.Its interesting that all of the main ingredients are untrackable,and could be easily bought in the USA.
We could do with hearing from folks in industry/demolition to see if they use thermite to cut steel.
On the security cameras issue,wasn`t it Jeb Bush who ran security?
Was the security com center in building 7 by any chance?

I would not be surprised...



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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You can see here that they are cutting the towers. I worked in metal fabrication for 2 years, using plasma and acetylene cutting devices. What you are seeing is slag. Also, what is the date of the picutre?



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
Ooooh!
Alex Jones, a veritable feast of unbiased, accurate, information indeed!
I don't know where to turn with the shopping cart, the books and DVDs for sale.....

Let me see how does it go again?

Give up time freely = Capitalist Government Shill

Charge for DVDs/Books = Honourable Freedom Fighter!

Please don't spam the boards with links by the way.


I'm not a big Alex Jones fan but I think this type of thinking is a little harsh. I mean, you can't disqualify someone who has a site just because they are selling something. Maybe that's his sponsors and he himself is just trying to pay for the site. This site has sponsors and many links to buy something. Does that automatically make this site biased and inaccurate? You have to remember, people need to pay the bills.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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It looks like a failed weld to me. If I had to guess I'd say that someone used the wrong type rod when they built up the box beam and the material strength of the weld material was less than the strength of the steel in the beam. This failure could have been caused by extreme heat changing the yeild strength of the weld material. If you look carefully at the pictures shown of torch cuts you will see that they are not as straight or even as the beam in the first picture. Miter cuts are used all of the time in steel construction. It has to do with the way that loads are transferred, pretty much the same as using an angled truss in a bridge. I still say if there was any cover-up in the WTC collapse it would be that substandard materials were used in its construction.



posted on Apr, 25 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
Maybe that's his sponsors and he himself is just trying to pay for the site. This site has sponsors and many links to buy something. Does that automatically make this site biased and inaccurate? You have to remember, people need to pay the bills.


Maybe I am being harsh, but all I saw was lists of his DVDs you could watch snippets from to buy from his online shop. But I guess you're right, he is popular and busy so he does have the bills to pay... I shouldn't be so quick to judge..


I still say if there was any cover-up in the WTC collapse it would be that substandard materials were used in its construction.


I've said that before myself Jim, but I've been assured that there cannot possibly be any cover-up regarding the construction and thinking so is unrealistic.. The only thing being covered up is the use of explosives...


It seems highly likely to me, after all many people would stand to lose a lot of money if it was proven....

A lot of the 'evidence' pointing towards explosives being used, such as the removal of the debris so quickly without examination, can be easily and more realistically applied to the idea that there were defects in the construction methods and materials which they did not want discovered. I can imagine all sorts of issues with insurance payouts, family members suing the companies involved for 'killing' their loved ones through faulty engineering, etc.
I expect they love these explosive theories drifting around because as they are more than likely untrue and hence can never be proven, people arn't looking at the more realistic explanations which would lead to countless lawsuits, losses of reputation and red-faces.

Still, explosives are far more exciting arn't they!! - and they sell DVDs and Books!! $$$$$$$$$$$


[edit on 25-4-2006 by AgentSmith]



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