tectonics - it's time we remove this nonsense from our schools

Its a theory yes,
but would you rather us teach that a giant man in the clouds drifted down and said "there be mountains"
and there were....

If so, then move to a nice third world country, maybe one that specializes in extremist islamic teachings...you will probably be much happier with the school system, but your children would be ill equiped to deal with science and reality.

As a practical minded Christian, and gonzo scientist... i have no problem with techtonics... even if it is slightly off...
it is close, and will inspire newer minds to further the theory, until it is proven...

My friend... I think you stirred the roots...
or a.k.a. You knew just enough to be dangerous to understanding of the process...

here is a link that might enlighten:
usgs plate movement

[edit on 24-4-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

Ok fine we submit, we will now call them God Plates. Or how about as suggested Jesus Plates? Or to old fashion, want something more up to date, Priests having sex with Children Plates?

Its amazing what people believe, "Its a theory!" So is Gravity, jump out of an airplane with no parachute and prove it wrong.

"Earth is Flat!" No its not.
"Earth is in the center!" No its not.
"WOmen came from Adams rib bone so men have one less rib bone then women!" Nope, science/medicine shows we have the same amount.
"Creation with all its many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many flaws is correct but something that has been proven in labs is wrong!" Nope.
"The Pope is infalliable and knows everything, but didn't know that Priests were having sex with kids, and nuns, and adults, and each other." Sure... Don't they have a little red phone that connects to God?
"How dare you make us look bad by pointing out our many many many many many many many many many many many many slaughters, genocides, and Inquisitions, its all in the past! but Arabs, look at them, why just 1300 years ago they did..." Yeah, hypocrisy anyone? You slaughter the Indians but noe one better bring that up but hey, the Arabs defended their lands 1300 years ago from Christian invaders they bad!
"Gays are evil! Says so in the OT!" It also says no eating pork, and to stone children to death for saying no to parents, and it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery, marrying and having sex with 14 year old girls is how it should be, and...

Hey how about we leave the 3rd century and live in the 21th century! We live longer, have Cable TV, and aren't killed for being black or masturbating or working on the Sabbath...

Where is that nail we had lying around in here? Where?
Oh I see it now.
I believe that Whaaa has hit that baby square on the head.
Smells like a thumper agenda with some of that fake science they like to quote.
I can't see a way for any actual theory in Physics to prove that which happens can't happen. lol
You hit the nail on the haed, Whaaa.
sayswho

Have you guys seen these videos yet?

Theory: Earth, Moon and other celestial bodies growing?!?

It deals with alternate explanations on the formation of mountains.

Hello All,

bc here] I spent 30 years in the research that led to the publication (1998) that shows that earthquake is earthbound lightning. In that publication I showed that earthquake (over a Reicter magnitude of 6) would change time!

Time changed, and the event was recorded, as seen here: Sumatran quake sped up Earth's rotation ..

Changing a paradigm as deeply embedded as tectonics will take a while. But I've had many successes! We have to realize why tectonics was conceived, the Creationists were winning the "evolution" debate, because Darwin's theories were dependent upon long durations. But the fossil record didn't support that .. so along came Wagoner's drifting continents, and the Darwin people grabbed at it and presented it to the public (with modifications) and so was launched - tectonics.

Wagoner fell by the way-side with the modifications, but tectonics served it's purpose! NO evidence of catastrophic events .. all is gradual and long live Uniformitarianism!

bc
.

We have to realize why tectonics was conceived, the Creationists were winning the "evolution" debate, because Darwin's theories were dependent upon long durations. But the fossil record didn't support that ..

how do you figure? the last time i heard, the fossil record record accounts for billions of years. this, combined with analysis we can perform upon layers of exposed rock (exposed, oftentimes, thanks to the action of plate tectonics!) is the whole reason the 6000-year thing the Creationists keep going on about doesn't make any sense.

here is a diagram of the evolution of a species of mollusc over thirteen million years. in college, i studied dozens of cladograms and what have you for numerous species that existed for and evolved over countless millions of years.

the evolution of species through natural selection is a demostrable fact. so is plate tectonics. the fact that the latter affected the former so frequently is only further proof, not some kind of refutation as you seem to take it.

(edit because i suck at BBCode)

[edit on 25-4-2006 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by beforebc
Convection is a means of heat [transfer] NOT a means of delivering a force!

A good example of convection moving things would be ocean currents. Another would be the movement of the wind. If it can happen to gasses (wind) and liquids (ocean currents) why not liquified solids (magma)?

Hello The Parallelogram, and all,

The Parallelogram said] the fossil record accounts for billions of years

bc here] Parallelogram - We really have to stop google'ing and think for a moment!

The Himalayas are over 29,000 feet, and there are marine fossil embedded every inch of the way. tectonics only moves 20 cm per year - how can it raise a mountain range where any thousand foot layer shows the same age?

There's not a mountain range in the entire world that shows a 20 cm per year growth!

tectonics is nonsence - it was contrived to support orthodoxy!

bc
.

Originally posted by bigx01
actually the consrvation of angular momentum is what causes the earth to spin...

There's not one ounce of truth in that statement.

Train

Hello BigTrain and all,

BigTrain wrote] There's not one ounce of truth in the statement [actually the consrvation of angular momentum is what causes the earth to spin... ]

bc here] Yes, I fully agree - but some folk just post what ever comes to mind!

Hopefully we can get around to discussiong the real source of geo-physical events.

They come about because of the gravitational forces that hold us in solar orbit. This is made complicated by the fact that we rotate as we orbit and the forces (being gravitational) act on an ever changing mass.

Further - the gravitational influences are acting along the plane of the ecliptic - which we know is ~23.5 degrees relative to the axis of revolution.

The Science is called the RB-Effect. We should get away from google and start speaking of science.

bc
.

Hey yea and let's remove English and Science too, who needs to know what the definition of a noun is or how a frog works.

Originally posted by beforebc
SNIP
They claim the processes are driven by heat .. but since when can heat drive anything except by thermal expansion?

Once the material has expanded, there's no more movement .. it's over - done!
SNIP
[edit on 23-4-2006 by beforebc]

How about convection? How about conduction? Differential temperatures drive all sorts of things!

So we seem to have come to the brunt of this arguement...
fossils-

Yep, they were just left all over the place to fool scientists... gods little joke...
With gods like that, who needs a satan?

So because a mountain hasn't grown over 20cm a year, in the dicernable history of a few centuries... it hasn't happened during the previous few billion years?

that is a untrue statement, and since we have seen some major uplifts and some major movement in techtonic plates in our lifetimes, it is also proven false...

Maybe this will be enlightening to your research...

Geologist Mark Hemphill-Haley took the story from there. He illustrated how, in a subduction zone, one of the plates is always moving under the other, creating wrinkles in the landscape. Here on the North Coast "we see vertical uplift right now, between earthquakes."

source
there are several places in the world, that following earthquakes, breaks in the road that are more than one foot offset, can be seen...

the recent sumatra earthquake confirmed all present understandings of techtonics... so the "theory" is all but proven at this point... not all the petty details, but the core of the science is proven, and testable with faster working media (gas, liguid) as beachcoma said...
we see it in daily lives... and you are asking us to not beleive our eyes??


[edit on 25-4-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

Imagine the tectonic plates as powerless barges floating on the sea of the mantle. The tectonic plates are not powered by heat they are drifting. You could even imagine them as pucks on an air hockey table.

Hello tj and all,

tj asks] How about convection? How about conduction?

bc here] convection and conduction are means of heat transfer - they are not forces and cannot be converted to forces.

Newton's second law (f = ma) - states clearly that forces and only forces can cause movement! That's why you don't find tectonics in ANY physics book!

The "heat engine" claimed by tectonics - simply won't work. Forces from heat are derived ONLY from thermal expansion. Nothing more! Look at your car engine .. the fuel is ignited and expansion moves the piston, but once that expansion is complete - the power stroke is over!

Those that stick to physics won't have anything to do with tectonics .. they know it's nonsense - and they won't put it in physics books!

bc
.

Interesting to read your thread. You seem to have alot to say but only offer up little bits and pieces.
Do you believe in plates, do you believe they move?
Explain more what fossils all the way up everest tells in your opinion? Its hard for someone who doesnt know much about geography to follow

While I don't believe in Global Warming (As soon as my essay on the topic for school is marked I will post it here, so I don't get accused of plagiarism, and then we can go through this sort of thing all over again), I find no reason not to believe in plate tectonics. There are mountains and volcanos that are growing, and with no other plausible theory as to what causes them, I am led to believe that shifting in the Earth's crust has to be the only theory.

Without proper face to face instruction, some of these people will never understand that plates are simply floating rock slabs on lava floes being kicked around by the myriad number of forces that kick them around.

Although it's all a lot slower than how I make it sound and somewhat less dangerous overall, it is fairly volatile...

But w.e, that's Earth.

Originally posted by Shooter_99
Imagine the tectonic plates as powerless barges floating on the sea of the mantle. The tectonic plates are not powered by heat they are drifting. You could even imagine them as pucks on an air hockey table.

The plates are also powered by the buildup of hardened magma at the rift points, like the one in the Atlantic Ocean. It spews out magma, it hardens and pushes the old stuff out of the way.


And besides, where I live in Atlantic Canada, we have rock that is also found in Africa, right where the puzzle piece fits.

Hello Adam and all,

Adam asked] You seem to have a lot to say but only offer up little bits and pieces.
Do you believe in plates, do you believe they move?

bc here] Unfortunately Adam these being posts on a forum .. they have to be kept brief because no one reads "lengthy" ones.

Certainly there are plates and yes they move. But they are moved by legitimate forces. When I started on this project I worked with a professor in the math dept of Mich State Univ. We developed the science now known as the RB-Effect.

By example - the forces that act on the crust alone (it acting independent of the inner mantle because of the existance of two weakened zones - the MOHO and the "Plastic Zone") are as follows: 2.38305E21 pounds over the first 100 miles of latitude. That's 2.38 followed by 21 zeros. We calculated values for each 100 mile increment.

Those forces cause the crust to bend, and the bending moment (again for the first 100 miles of latitude) are as follows: 5.37277E27 ft lbs. That's 5.3 followed by 27 zeros.

As you can see solar gravitational forces are immense. This was published in 1998 - and we've been carrying this info to all media that we can.

This is real science - with real verifiable numbers.

We just have to talk to people who don't have to "google" all they know!

bc
.