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Freemasonry question...

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posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 05:43 PM

Originally posted by African459Also for the OES or Eastern Star which Dr Morris used to bring the Female counterparts and Female members of a MM family involved within the order bringing them closer together was meant for a select group. For men you do not need to be a bloodlined Male of a Master Mason. Its only meant for the female members who need a source if you will to join since Women are not allowed to become freemasons lawfully.

Good point here, everywhere in society women are busting in to join and be apart of whatever is going on.. even if it is holding a mic and entering a men's locker room after the big game. I for one have not always supported this and think it is going too far forward... but anyhow... how come Freemasonry has avoided the same kind of invasion that everyone else in now experiencing re: women's rights to belong and participate?

posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 05:46 PM

Originally posted by thebookling
Black Lodge!

I have only met one mason that knew more about use of the pineal gland than philospohical theory.

I have yet to see any mason here or masonic forums speak openly about diving deeper than theory.

So any mason on deck want to discuss taboo..?

I agree with you on this... let's see some real stuff here instead of mumbo jumbo. You guys say there is no secrets but I still don't believe. Also nobody here is explaining why freemasonry? Still not a logical or rational explanation that I have come across.

I think Freemasonry is a trade off: power and prestige and maybe wealth for blind subservience to the 'brotherhood' that runs the world and the adoption of a weird religion that for all intents and purposes looks a lot like satanism reconstituted.

posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 07:14 PM
The term "The Craft", when used to describe Masonry, does not come from "witchcraft".

As to the question "why Freemasonry?", well... it's different for everyone. The reason you haven't received what you consider to be a satisfactory answer could be that people simply don't want to share something that personal. Nobody speaks for the whole membership, that's for sure. Some blokes join for the fraternal aspects of Freemasonry, others are into esoterica and history. Some join largely because of the charity work.

posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:12 AM

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
You guys say there is no secrets but I still don't believe.

No, its been explained regularly and repetively that the only secrets are the modes of recognition. So there are secrets.

I'd be interested in what would change your mind on this...

posted on May, 1 2006 @ 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Tamahu
"The Black Lodge" is in reference to the entities of the Klipoth(Hell realms), who oppose the Great White Fraternity of the Superior Spheres of the Tree of Life mentioned by many Esoteric Philosophers; many of them being FreeMasons themselves.

Such as: C.W. Leadbeater, J.D. Buck, Manly P. Hall and a few others.

The term "Black Lodge" has nothing to do with race.

The White Lodge is said to consist of, and be open to all races, colors, creeds, etc.

The modern Gnostic movement recognizes the political Zionist movement to be the representatives of the Black Lodge here on the physical plane.

I forgot to add that according to the Gnostic teachings, as long as we have the "I" or ego(not to be confused with the old Theosophical and Freudian/Jungian uses of this term) alive within us, we are basically members of the Black Lodge; because until we make the Conscious effort to go through with the Buddhist annhilation of the ego or "I", the Klipothic elements within our own psyche and without, have no problem controlling us like puppets, making us slaves to animal desire.

Thus all the wars, disease, famine, greed, etc., etc., etc.

In other words KARMA.

All this due to humanoid intellect getting mixed with animal desire(a combination that makes us worse than animals).

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Isn't craft related to the term: witchcraft?

A Master Craftsmen is basically the same as a Master Builder, both terms being used in Masonry(correct me if I'm wrong).

A Craftsmen is a far cry from a witch.

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 03:32 PM

How can I not be misguided about freemasonry when I am not a member?
How can I not know about Freemasonry when you guys won't tell us what the big secret is or why?

True, you are not a member. When you don't know a subject you should research it and then give a response. That way you bring something to the table instead of more confusion.

Then there is all the weird activities and actions and things to memorize... why? Just for the sake of it?

How is it weird to learn and memorize things? Did you not go to school? Did you not memorize your studies so that you might pass your tests? How is it that you know which letters to type to form words? Did you not have to memorize your alphabet for this? How is it that you were able to read my reply? Did you not have to practice pronouncing your words out? We do not memorize our material just for the sake of. It is history, morals, and etc; therefore it must be taught. And once it is learned it is up to the young craftsman to apply his skills to his daily life. Therefore it transfers from just mere words into actions. It is a craft, not as in witchcraft, but as in skill. This is the same as your memorization work of learning the alphabet and learning to pronounce words has transferred into action. Do you not apply your craft of reading and writing everyday?

In terms of sheep herding it looks like the rest of us cause you guys covet money and power and in order to get it you have to herd everyone else. Isn't that the way to achieving such ends? I know it has been all though history.

I don't understand what you mean. You were speaking with logic and now it seems as though you just switched to the conspiracy side. We do not "sheep herd" anyone. I work just like the average man. I don't have this mass power and wealth. What I do have is what I earned from my own sweat, blood and tears. Maybe you can elaborate more on what you are talking about or produce some evidence.

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 03:35 PM
this is a double post... sorry about that

[edit on 2-5-2006 by ac707]

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 03:37 PM
sorry about the double post here....

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 08:57 PM
For all the masons out there, what is the point of this?

Why does it have to be done that way? Why not just give them the handshake, tell them boaz and to meet at the lodge the first monday of the month?

The ring of an Active 33* mason, pretty elaborate for a men's club.

posted on May, 2 2006 @ 09:26 PM

As with many formalities within masonry, Tradition.

If for no other reason, we honer those who have come before and wish to preserve the traditions that they founded. We do accept change when it is to benifit. But change for changes sake is not readily embraced.

Ask a marine why the keep "semper fi".

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Masonic Student]

posted on May, 3 2006 @ 01:58 PM
Do you know the meaning behind the tradition(s)?

posted on May, 3 2006 @ 02:17 PM
Sgt Tibbs, what from the ritual are you refering to specifically?

Those ring, they are secret rings, not necessarily 33rd degree rings no? They are rings that can be opened up and switched so as to show that a person is a mason.

posted on May, 3 2006 @ 08:36 PM
Any of it, it's so out of place. Why does the Inner Guard repeat what the Tyler says? Then the Junior Deacon does it twice. Why? What could possibly be the reason for that, besides "tradition". Someone thought it was a good idea to do that at some point, why?

And the ring, when it's closed, has the same two headed eagle as the 33* master mason's emblem.

posted on May, 3 2006 @ 09:59 PM

Originally posted by sergeant_tibbs
Why not just give them the handshake, tell them boaz and to meet at the lodge the first monday of the month?

Maybe because it would be a boring and forgettable experience, with no lasting impact on the candidate.

Humankind has used the repetitive yet colourful nature of ritual for thousands of years to inspire, learn, and comfort. Ritual is not designed to necessarily "make sense" from a logical perspective at face value, nor is it about economy of effort.

I would guess that the seemingly unnecessary exchanges between the Tyler, Junior Warden and Master serve to demonstrate, in a way, the roles of each in the Lodge, perhaps to benefit younger or newer members.

posted on May, 4 2006 @ 02:20 AM
There are many people who feel that ritual in society generally is anachronistic and pointless, and all such usage should be updated to reflect a modern world. However, just like holding on to our past for too long is unhealthy, jettisoning it wholesale is quite foolhardy and shortsighted, and I strongly believe that links to our past (such as ritual) are healthy.

The bottom line is freemasons will chose to structure their meetings any way they choose, and in a free society it is right and proper that we can. If you don't like it, don't join. If you join and don't like it, leave. Joining is simple, and leaving is easy.

It's so not rocket science.

posted on May, 4 2006 @ 09:43 AM
I could If I choose to reveal

the big secret

but I dont see any point in it. You would never believe the pure simplicity of it.

Yet it is funny because many through history (IMO) have " KNOWN THE SECRET"
and almost all have died trying to pass it to others.

Jeshua, Budda,Krishna,Ghandi, Socrates,Plato, Jeanne de Arc, The Magdalene, and on the list goes.

I dont however believe that Peter or Paul ever "got it."

posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 04:08 AM
In reading through this thread it would seem that the conclusion is that the term "Black Lodge" refers to Prince Hall Lodges.

My question is this; Is it true that the Templar degrees of the Scottish Rite are grouped together as "Black Lodge," "Encampment," and "The Lodge of Vengeance?"

I have read that the Templar degrees are conducted in rooms draped in black velvet and that black gloves replace the customary white. Link to Black Gloves

The grades that involve the use of Black are known as the Grades of the Dagger or more commmonly; The Elect of Fifteen, The Master Elect of Nine, and The Chevalier Kadosh. All are represented with black drapings and the presence of the assassin's dagger.

[edit on 13/11/2006 by Beelzebubba]

posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
In reading through this thread it would seem that the conclusion is that the term "Black Lodge" refers to Prince Hall Lodges.

No, the term "Black Lodge" is not in reference to Prince Hall Lodges(if you've read the previous posts in this thread you should have noticed this).

"Black Lodge" is in reference to impurity, not melanated skin.

There are two main types of symbolic Blackness.

The Black of the Absolute, the Omeyocan of Tezcatlipoca for example, is the mind which is no mind, that directly Comprehends That Infinite Consciousness of the Maha-Pralaya before the Light of the Ain Soph Aur surged forth from the Black Absolute(which can be entered in deep meditation on Emptiness, even during the Great Cosmic Day, it is taught).

This^^^ I believe, is symbolized as "The Original Black Man" in the Nation of Islam Doctrine.

Then there is the blackness of the ego, ignorance, impurity, etc., in other words: the Light trapped within the painful darkness of the egos, samskaras, kleshas, etc.; which I believe, is known as "Yakub" in Nation of Islam Doctrine.

To put it simply, Adam(the Human Soul) redeems himself by extracting the trapped Light from the painful blackness of the egos(by doing this he converts Satan back into Lucifer), to then have the option of(after becoming an Angel of Pure White Light) entering the Black Absolute which is Infinite Repose, Bliss and Happiness(as opposed to the painful blackness of hell).

But like I said, this is a bit of an over-simplification.

My question is this; Is it true that the Templar degrees of the Scottish Rite are grouped together as "Black Lodge," "Encampment," and "The Lodge of Vengeance?"

Perhaps C.W. Leadbeater's "Hidden Life in FreeMasonry" can clear this up.


796. Few need anything further than the splendid revelation of the indwelling Love of God which they receive in the Eighteenth Degree. But there are those who feel that there is yet more to learn of the nature of God, who eagerly wish to understand the meaning of evil and suffering, and its relation to the Divine plan; for them Black Masonry exists - the teaching and progress comprised in the Degrees from the nineteenth to the thirtieth. This section of the Mys­teries is especially concerned with the working out of karma in its different aspects, studied as a law of retribution, and so from one point of view it is dark and terrible. This is the inner kernel lying behind the vengeance-elements in the degree of Knight K.H. The darker aspects of karma are largely connected with man’s ignorance of the nature of God, and with con­fusion with regard to many forms in which He reveals Himself, and thus the s … s of the 30° contain the heart of its philosophy. That Degree would not be fully and validly conferred unless these s … s were duly communicated, since they express its inner mean­ing and purpose.

797. In the ancient Egyptian instruction, corresponding to this group of Degrees, it was taught that whatsoever a man sowed that also must he reap, and that if he sowed evil the result would be suffering to himself. The karma of nations and races was also studied, and the inner working of the law upon the different planes was investigated by the inner sight, and shown to the student. The whole of what we now call Black Masonry led up to an explanation of karma, as Divine justice, this having been preserved for us in shadow in what is now the 31°, that of the Grand Inspector Inquisitor Commander, whose symbol is a pair of scales. In Egypt this pair of scales was taken as an emblem of the perfect balance of Divine justice; the aspirant learnt that all the horror sometimes associated with the working out of karma was indeed based on absolute justice, although it appeared as evil to the lesser vision of the profane.

798. Thus the first stage of the higher instruction, that of the Rose-Croix or Red Masonry, is devoted to the knowledge and assurance of good, while to the Second stage, that of the Knight K.H., is assigned the knowl­edge of apparent evil and its explanation. Next, in the first steps of White Masonry, the crown of the whole glorious structure, the aspirant learns to see the underlying justice of the great and eternal God, called in Egypt Amen-Ra, who stands behind all alike, whether it seems to us evil or good. We are told that in older days, before the Kaliyuga, in which the apparent evil predominates over the good, the Knight K.H. wore regalia of yellow instead of black

But this "Black Masonry" that C.W.L. refers to; is not the same as what we call "The Black Lodge"(the latter of who's Head is Javhe or Yawhe who is the Chief of Demons).

Also, this "Black Masonry" he refers to, is not the same as Prince Hall Masonry(and, I repeat, Prince Hall Masonry is not necessarily "The Black Lodge").

There are many levels of symbolism in regard to color, and they all have to be taken in context.

One is reminded of the Black, Red and White of Alchemy that is known not only in the Western Hermetic tradition, but also by the Tibetans, Aztecs and many others I'm sure.

The color of one's skin is pretty much irrelevant(although I do suspect that having melanated skin does have certain benefits).


[edit on 13-11-2006 by Tamahu]

posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 01:46 PM
Yahovah(YHWH) or Christus-Lucifer, is the Head of the White Lodge(which we could say, does the Will of the Original Black Man, the I AM, the Self which is non-self; esoterically speaking).

Javhe(YHWH inverted) who is the expression of Satan-Lucifer, is the Head of the Black Lodge, who does the will of the ego, the "me", "I", or "myself".

"Among the masters of the White Lodge, not one wears a black hood.

"However, the Master Zanoni (from the White Lodge), dresses in a black tunic and wears a distinguished mantle of the same color, but never a black hood. This is because the black hood is only for black magicians." - Samael Aun Weor

Here, click on this: ATS Google search:

posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 02:04 PM
An example:

From the Gnostic teachings:

Philosophical Stone

An Alchemical symbol of the Intimate Christ dressed with bodies of Gold. When acquired, this stone gives powers over nature. It is lost when thrown in water (through fornication). When the stone is dissolved in (sexual) water, then the metallic Spirit is melted, and interior Magnes escapes. It is said when this happens, one dissolves the stone in water on Saturday (Saturn = death). The Philosophical Stone is passes through phases of development: black, red & white. It is also the Cubic stone of Yesod (Parsifal Unveiled), the stone that Jacob anointed with oil and "a Stone of stumbling, a rock of offense."

Nicolas Valois: “It is a Stone of great virtue, and is called a Stone and is not a stone.”

...The colours that we use to represent Binah, the Holy Spirit, are always related to red, white and black. These are the three colours that Jonah the prophet was using to perform an invocation of Binah-Saturn, on Saturday, or Jehovah Elohim as we state in Gnostic Kabbalah. The Aztecs, the Nahuas, also performed burning offerings to the Holy Spirit by burning perfumes with these kinds of colours using corals coloured red, black and white, in order to invoke the forces of the Holy Spirit related with Saturn...

From His Holiness The Dalai Lama:

Death, Intermediate State and Rebirth

...As the path of Highest Yoga Tantra is explained in terms of meditation on the three bodies of the Buddha, any generation stage practice in Highest Yoga Tantra should incorporate these three aspects.

The Nyingma texts describe this process in different terms, referring to the three meditative stabilizations instead of the meditation on the three bodies, the meditative stabilizations of suchness, the meditative stabilizations of arising appearances and the causal meditatitve stabilization. These meditative stabilizations are equivalent to those generation stage practices explained in both Yoga Tantra and Highest Yoga Tantra, comprising the meditative stabilization of the initial stage, the victorious mandala meditative stabilization and the victorious activities meditative stabilization.

Meditation on the three bodies refers to the meditation in which you take death, intermediate state and rebirth into the process of the path. For instance, taking death into the process of the path as the Truth Body is where you transform the condition of dying by imagining or visualizing going through the process of death. On the imaginary level you withdraw and dissolve all the processes of your mind and energies. The death process begins with a dissolution of elements within your own body, consequently it has eight stages starting with the dissolution of the earth, water, fire, and wind elements.

This is followed by four stages, technically referred to as the experiences of white appearance, red increase, black near attainment and the clear light of the death.

This dissolution is experienced during the generation stage only on an imaginary level, while deeper experiences of the dissolution process arise as the practitioner progresses and advances in his realization during the completion stage. This will eventually lead to a point where he will be able to go through the experience of the actual death process

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Tamahu]

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