The Great Flood, Myth or Fabrication

So I see we are getting responses and thoughts are being offered for all to consider.

There "was" something that occured which effect many peoples and they all bear a similiar theme of the Flood.

A God, A Flood, A Man Saved, Life preserved.

It struck me that there is a lot of this topic covered in a work done by Ignatius Donnelly which was centered and devoted to the Antediluvian World, and I think a breif outline of this should be considered, despite the original intention of his work.

www.sacred-texts.com...

In here, Donnelly speaks of Plato's account of the lost continent, Atlantis, and is bringing in the premise that the message given to Solon by the preist of Nith where accruate, in respects to their city and people being destroyed by a Great Flood.

His assertion is as follows: "And hence, whether we turn to the Hebrews, the Aryans, the Phœnicians, the Greeks, the Cu#es, or the inhabitants of America, we find everywhere traditions of the Deluge." The Great Flood?


François Lenormant says (Contemp. Rev., Nov., 1879):

"The result authorizes us to affirm the story of the Deluge to be a universal tradition among all branches of the human race, with the one exception, however, of the black. Now, a recollection thus precise and concordant cannot be a myth voluntarily invented. No religious or cosmogonic myth presents this character of universality. It must arise from the reminiscence of a real and terrible event, so powerfully impressing the imagination of the first ancestors of our race as never to have been forgotten by their descendants. This cataclysm. must have occurred near the first cradle of mankind, and before the dispersion of the families from which the principal races were to spring; for it would be at once improbable and uncritical to admit that, at as many different points of the globe as we should have to assume in order to explain the wide spread of these traditions, local phenomena so exactly alike should have occurred, their memory having assumed an identical form, and presenting circumstances that need not necessarily have occurred to the mind in such cases.

www.sacred-texts.com...
This Covers the Biblical Account.

www.sacred-texts.com...
This covers two tales from the Chaldeans

www.sacred-texts.com...
This covers other Med/Mid East Peoples

We see several tales here.

The Greeks and "Deucalion Sisythes--that Deucalion in whose time the great inundation occurred." The builder of the Sanctuary of Hierapolis.

It notes events prior to and upto the Flood, and how Deucalion surived along with his family

"All on a sudden enormous volumes of water issued from the earth, and rains of extraordinary abundance began to fall; the rivers left their beds, and the sea overflowed its shores; the whole earth was covered with water, and all men perished".

Ohoh Charater Max

Ciao


Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2006-4-25 by wecomeinpeace]

Continued..............

www.sacred-texts.com...

"All on a sudden enormous volumes of water issued from the earth, and rains of extraordinary abundance began to fall; the rivers left their beds, and the sea overflowed its shores; the whole earth was covered with water, and all men perished".

(Where did the Charater Max come from????)

The Arameans, the People of Hierapolis, adds Deucalion built a Temple for Hera near a Chasm inwhich devotees pour Salt water into to represent the Great Chasm which the Deluge waters drained into.

The Magi of Persia had some Flood legend which Mohammed borrowed and the Koran refers the deluge coming from an Oven. "all men were drowned save Noah and his family, and then God said, 'O earth, swallow up thy waters" The Koran also noted the waters of the Deluge were "absorbed in the bosom of the earth."

Is this Chasm/Bosom thing a "regional" observance?

In India, we have the tale of Manu and the Fish found in the Catapatha Brahmana of the Rig-Veda. Manu saves fish, Fish saves Manu by warning him of the Deluge and aiding during the Deluge. All have perished but Manu.

The Iranians relate how Yima, who, in the original and primitive conception, was the father of the human race, was warned by Ahuramazda, the good deity, of the earth being about to be devastated by a flood. The god ordered Yima to construct a refuge, a square garden, vara, protected by an enclosure, and to cause the germs of men, beasts, and plants to enter it

Welsh?

"The first of these events," it is said, "was the eruption of Llyn-llion, or 'the lake of waves,' and the inundation (bawdd) of the whole country, by which all mankind was drowned with the exception of Dwyfam and Dwyfach, who saved themselves in a vessel without rigging, and it was by them that the island of Prydian was repeopled."

We have notation of the Ice Giants already by our find collegue here.

But certainly we can see, Legend, Lore, Lie or Truth is somewhere in these words. Can so many peoples have the same observations?

And again, aside from what Donnelly is seeking, is it not uncanny that all of this can be found?

More to come.

Ciao

Shane

character max?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As before, please review this link in regard to text quoted from outside sources;
www.abovetopsecret.com...












[edit on 25-4-2006 by masqua]

I don't find it very "uncanny" at all. After all, floods do happen everywhere. How many of these cultures have "famine myths" or "Sun being eaten" myths (eclipse)?

Harte

A thought I have had for years is the possibility that the flood was the creation of the Mediteranian sea. This may be what happened to Atlantis as well. From their perspective, it could seem like the whole world was flooded and pushed Noah east.

Isn't there evidence of water damage to the shinx?

Originally posted by godservant
A thought I have had for years is the possibility that the flood was the creation of the Mediteranian sea. This may be what happened to Atlantis as well. From their perspective, it could seem like the whole world was flooded and pushed Noah east.

Isn't there evidence of water damage to the shinx?

I'm not gonna do it, but if you look into the flooding of the Med. basin, I think you'll find it occurred a long time before there were people around the area.

The evidence of erosion of the sphinx that is claimed to be caused by water is, of course, controversial. There are other explanations for it. At any rate, the type of erosion seen in the sphinx complex is sort of the "slow and steady" kind, not something that happened over several hours or days, more like over thousands of years.

Harte

So...

Donnelly goes on to review the Americas. Art of the Aztec, Toltec and several other tribes which depicit the Flood , is noted, as well as the Legends. (Some of these tribes I had never heard of previously)

www.sacred-texts.com...

Most have the God, Warning, Flood and the all perish but the one survior and his wife theme.

I liked the following, due to it's humour. It's from the Indians of the Great Lakes.

In the past they lived towards the east, (where Donnelly is convinced and the tales, words, names and such seem to confirm, being Atlantis), and the Father of the Indian Tribes was warned of the coming deluge in a Dream. He build a raft, save himself and his family, and All the Animals.

I guess the Animals lived in Narina, since at that time, they spoke, and loudy complained and murmured.

The Father of the Indians finally sees new earth and lands his raft with all the animals. But they lost the ability to speak, as a punishment for the Complaints and Murmurs while on the raft.

But there are at least 15 or 20 Peoples here again, with the Deluge tale, with Sumerian, Chaldean, Biblical, Greek, and as far as Donnelly wishs, Atlantian Origins.

Well, where next?

Can anything here be dated or can we reason that these are pointing specific to the Great Flood, apposed to those regularly occuring rivers overflowing their banks, or the Tsunami washing into the beach village and flowing back out, or the dam that bursts and cascades of water destory anything within it's path? Hurricanes, Monsoons, and heavy rain, does not account for the basis of the legend.

The God, and man was happy, Man and dieites do some bad things, God gets mad, sends a Deluge, Warns one and instructs him to build a boat and store food and livestock. The event kills all, save the one and his belongings. Everything grows anew.

Thats too many similiarities to overlook this as a distinct possiblity or at worst require careful consideration.

So, maybe we should see what can be found to point to a Flood, of Biblical Proportions.

Until then

Ciao

Shane

The Northern Black Sea and Sea of Azos were dramatically flooded about 7,500 years ago.

This seems to be be the most scientifically-reliable evidence for a great flood.

This quote from the Book of Genesis is part of a familiar tale — the story of Noah's flood. Scholars have known for a long time that the Bible isn't the only place this story is found — in fact, the biblical story is similar to a much older Mesopotamian flood story in the epic of Gilgamesh. Scholars usually attribute things like the worldwide occurrence of flood stories to common human experiences and our love of repeating good stories, but recently scientists have started to uncover evidence that Noah's flood may have a basis in some rather astonishing events that took place around the Black Sea some 7,500 years ago.

www.smithsonianmagazine.com...

Hello Strangerous

I thank you for directing this to the Topic, and think maybe we should now devote an effort to see, if there is further evidence to speak to this, and other "Area" or "Regional" similiarities.

I think the "Much Older" implications have been addressed, and today, the premise is now, the Noah story and the Gilgamesh Epic are from the same period, if not the Noah story was older, but that means little, since all these legends stem from an period much earlier than they where scribed.

So, the evidence you offered suggests a time of 5500 BC for this Flooding in the Black Sea.

We can also look for confirmation, such as

atmo.info...

Although again, the Intent is to find the Lost City of Atlantis, and speculates on this once being located north of the Black Sea, there is good work done on detailing the premise, and science is used to explain the theory.

We see they are specific and direct in discussing an event that took place 9300 BC. For the following reasons, I find them difficult to believe, since the basis of their premise is from the account of Plato's Timaeus.

We see, from the account, the Priest of Nith told Solon, the Egyptian records went back 8000 years. At that discussion, Solon would have been in Egypt about 450 BC. (roughly) So that brings us back to roughly 8500 BC, and the Athenes predated this by 1000 years.

Thats 9500 BC, and the evidence from the link suggest the Deluge and the destruction of Atlantis was only 200 years later. Not much time inorder to do some things like.

Establish Athenes.
Civilize and construct monuments.
Design a set in place laws and regulations, for Society

All the things which would need to be done for Athenes to be that Special Place it was.

Look, the Intro to the link even suggests this is so. It took many generations of time. Building this Great Empire? Maybe 1000 Years or more, but not 200.

So, since their intent was to point to the North of the Black Sea as the location of Atlantis, and have used science, they proved there was a great flood in the Region, at or around 9300 BC.

BUT they also do concede evidence does support a Great Flood also took place about 5600 BC.

Now to consider two Floods occured in the region and one has been detailed in two efforts using science, what is meant by this line.

They say the water level of the Black Sea and Caspian Sea rose again during the world ocean level rise. They then go about indicating this was an Outflow from the Black sea. What is it? Ocean Levels rise, or Flooding from the Rivers into the Black Sea burst out?

So what made the World Ocean levels rise in 5600 BC?

In their theory for 9300 BC, they have graphs which point to the Climate changes with temperatures.

But the evidence from the Smithsonian detail the Flow was into the Black Sea due to the THIN layer found on the bottom today. Review again here, if you wish.

www.smithsonianmagazine.com...

And here is Ballards Link to the expedition in the Black Sea. Please note HIS findings on the Items found.

en.wikipedia.org...

We see it is pointing toward an event that took place about 7000 Years ago. Fresh Water items dated to 5000 BC. And today, that saltwater is still there.

So, I think we should look at 5000 - 5500 BC as being a Time Frame, and see what can be found to support or dismiss this.

Ciao

Shane

Hi Shane, i posted this on another thread but it may also be relevant to what you are discussing here. The australian aborigines do have a great flood story as well as localised story's regarding flood's, so they were able to distinguish between a localised event and a global event. This is obviously debateable (I'll add this now so that the debunkers dont need to jump on me) as theirs is a mostly oral history backed up with dance and ceremony.

Then came the flood. The water rose up quietly from the sea, until it was higher than the tallest gum tree. It was like a vast blue plain, with only the tops of the mountains standing up above it like islands. The water kept on rising, and finally even the mountain peaks disappeared. The world was one vast, flat sheet of water, and there was no place for the Nurrumbunguttias to live. Many of them were drowned, but others were caught up by a whirlwind which carried them off into the sky, where they became stars, and some, who were gods on earth, became the gods of the sky. Among them was Pund-jil [Bunjil]. The Milky Way was made out of the fires that the Nurrumbunguttias had kindled when they were on earth.

www.astronomy.pomona.edu...

sorry about the big link i tried to make shorter but it wouldnt work for some reason.

There are other stories that speak of the Gulf of Carpentaria flood (northern australia) which is thought to be the bridge of land that once joined that part of australia to asia. There is also a story that i know of that relates that the Great Barrier reef was once the coast line of Australia.

‘According to the natives on Cape Grafton, northern Queensland, the Barrier
Reef was the original coastline of the country. Goonyah was the first man in
that country. One day with his two wives, he went to the coast to catch fish.
In some way he offended the Great Spirit Balore. It is said, that he caught
and ate a certain kind of fish that was forbidden. Balore in anger caused the
sea to rise in order to drown Goonyah and his women, but they fled to the
mountains. The waters rose rapidly as the fugitives climbed to the heights of
the Murray Prior range. This range is called by the aborigines “Wambilari”
[Moses said that this must be a reference to Wumbilgay, a baldy-headed
mountain]. The two women became very tired, and stopped running.
Goonyah, well ahead of them, stopped on a huge boulder of granite, and
called upon them to hurry. The natives took the author to this spot, and
showed him the footprint of Goonyah. It is a patch of very dark stone in the
granite about fifteen inches long and very wide. It is said that the mark was
left by Goonyah’s muddy foot. He must have been something of a giant.
They succeeded in reaching the top of the highest peak in the range, and
there they made a fire, and heating large stones rolled them down the
mountain side, and succeeded in checking the flood. The sea, however,
never returned to its original limits. (Goonganjie tribe).’”
Although Moses had never previously heard a story about Gunya the theme
was familiar to him – many Yidinyji stories are concerned with rising seas and
what olden times people did to try to stop them.
Told by Dick Moses in the coastal dialect; recorded at Yarrabah on 22 August
1973 (duration 10 minutes).

Hope that adds something to the discussion.

Cheers
Mark

(edit to fix link)




[edit on 2/5/06 by mojo4sale]

I don't necessarily believe in a global flood, but i do have a couple interesting things to add to the discussion:

There IS indication of a massive flood, high enough to cover mountain tops, in the stories from south america. Now bear with me a moment. This may have been possible because at one time, the land referred to was actually much lower, but due to tectonic forces, was eventually driven upwards. When the texts were translated, the translators assumed the areas in question were mountains in the time of the writings. One of the ancient cities, even though discovered at a super high elevation, shows signs of having been a port city, on a coastline! Meaning, that what might be considered "hills" then, would today be considered "mountains." It takes only a small error to make a hill into a mountain.

And here's the real clincher. Because the earth churns up rocks and displaces layers of sediment as it moves, at any time between Pangaea and now, the original layers of sediments in our geological surveys could be lost. what was once on the surface, is now inside a mountain chain and what was once inside a mountain chain, may actually be on the surface or on the ocean floor. This, of course, would not be global and as a result, you will find areas where a severe flood is indicated, and other areas where it isn't.

My personal opinion at this juncture is, that when they said the "whole earth," they just meant as far as their eyes could see.

EDIT: And also, consider that the ancient civs grew up around water, rivers, lakes and oceans, so it would only take a semi-global flood to flood all the inhabitated lands.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by undo]

The real purpose of the Deluge was to limit the life span of the human being. Man lived too long with his constant bad thoughts. The planet was perfectly tuned to his design for longevity. Something had to break in Earth's system to reduce the life span. An insulator surrounding the Earth had to be broken. When the upper atmosphere lost the ability to hold the canopy, it came down in the form of torrential rain. The Deluge "killed two birds with one stone", as the saying goes. It began the declining mortality rate (maximum limit to be 120 yrs) and it also killed off those highly offensive to God, especially the Nephelim.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The real purpose of the Deluge was to limit the life span of the human being. Man lived too long with his constant bad thoughts. The planet was perfectly tuned to his design for longevity. Something had to break in Earth's system to reduce the life span. An insulator surrounding the Earth had to be broken. When the upper atmosphere lost the ability to hold the canopy, it came down in the form of torrential rain. The Deluge "killed two birds with one stone", as the saying goes. It began the declining mortality rate (maximum limit to be 120 yrs) and it also killed off those highly offensive to God, especially the Nephelim.

I agree with this interpretation. All it would need to do is rain long enough for the waters to overflow the boundaries and seriously flood the existing civilizations. The whole planet was a greenhouse, with that canopy of water, it was a veritable garden in every direction.

Folks, I don't know, I wouldn't throw the word "myth" around unless you actually know for sure. There are many things still yet to discover about this planet.

For example, we thought that thousands of years ago, people were "not so bright," and just started dropping their spears, but it's not true at all, complex gear mechanisms have been discovered. "Man was stupid" seems to be the actual myth.

Some seriously big stuff happened on planet earth, and civilization seems to have stopped suddenly. Look at the fact that it wasn't that long ago, we had a "Little House on the Prarie" lifestyle, with horses, buggies, and chickens. Now we are driving Ferraries, or Pintos depending on our income. We should have been driving a car, oh, 1500 years ago, looking at where civilization was about 2000 years ago. Something happened.

Troy

[edit on 3-5-2006 by cybertroy]

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
I tend to wonder on this subject,as living in So Calif you can go up to 9000ft in Big Bear and find sea shells,also in death vally also evidence at one time it was a sea,so how can told scholars say there was no anomolies,you can read all the books written still some things can't be explained away,problem is scientists are always changing their etched in stone philosophiesI wish one would dismiss what the words written in bible,seems they are pre occupied by it,I'm neither a geologist nor and Anthropologist but I know Sh** from shinola,I think in thiscase one has to use common sense

It's called uplift. The west coast has been pushed up by the creation of the Rockies and the volcanism that formed the Cascades. No anomaly there I'm afraid, just geology.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The real purpose of the Deluge was to limit the life span of the human being. Man lived too long with his constant bad thoughts. The planet was perfectly tuned to his design for longevity. Something had to break in Earth's system to reduce the life span. An insulator surrounding the Earth had to be broken. When the upper atmosphere lost the ability to hold the canopy, it came down in the form of torrential rain. The Deluge "killed two birds with one stone", as the saying goes. It began the declining mortality rate (maximum limit to be 120 yrs) and it also killed off those highly offensive to God, especially the Nephelim.

???? Sorry, but this is a load of nadgers. Do you have any proof of this? Limit the life span of the human being? We know that the human lifespan has been lengthening over the millennia, not shortening! I'm 35 and 2000 years ago I'd have been well into middle age!
And insulator? What's that? Where did the water come from? Where did it go to?

“Evidence for catastrophic flooding in the area known as the Scablands in eastern Washington was discovered by J. Harlan Bretz in the 1920's. Bretz published reports of his investigations in a series of articles in the Journal of Geology. Most geologists were reluctant to recognize this evidence at first, because it seemed to discredit the doctrine of uniformitarianism, but Bretz persisted, and accumulated more evidence to support his theory. Eventually the evidence of catastrophic events in the Washington Scablands area was firmly established.”

www.sentex.net...

This article also talks about an ancient flood in the Great Lakes area that was on a par with the Washington state floods.

I understand that large alluvial canyons and where the lake was have been observed from space. Photo’s from space verify the Washington flood theories.

Although, other theories with reasonable proofs have been put forward.

“Mark L. Lord and Alan E. Kehew were able to show that, in plain regions where there are no mountains to impound water, [g]lacial-lake outburst floods were common in the northern Great Plains during the Pleistocene Epoch. Sedimentologic and paleohydraulic interpretations...support geomorphic evidence of large magnitude, highly competent discharges from glacial lake outbursts. Large-scale bars consisting of matrix-supported, poorly sorted, pebbly cobble gravel were deposited by hyperconcentrated flows, probably between 20% and 40% sediment by weight.27

Then again, perhaps the whale fossils were from a more ancient time.

“A plan to commemorate the route of massive Ice Age floods that reshaped the landscape of the Pacific Northwest with trails and interpretive centers will go before Congress next week, according to two Washington state lawmakers.”
Dated July 18, 2004

www.billingsgazette.com.../2004/07/18/build/state/72-ice-age-markers.inc



As a small aside, I grew up in Ventura, California - a small coastal community south of Santa Barbara and north of Los Angeles with an oil-citrus based economy - and used to hike the hills above town.

If you’re familiar with the city, there is a whitewashed letter “V” on the hill above the high school.
Following the road climbing into the hills directly behind the V, not long after you reach the level area, on the east side of the road, you’ll find a small outpouring of pure white sand that’s loaded with small fossils. Seashells, Trilobites and the like. There was always something to be found there.

The small fossil site is at about 1000' above MSL (Mean Sea Level).

Possibly due to a small uplifting of the earth, but perhaps due to a high sea level in ancient times.

California’s channel islands were once connected to the Santa Monica Mountain chain, but a rising sea level cut them off.
Not to go too far astray here, but the flora and fauna of the islands have species common only to the islands and in some cases common only to a particular island.

My opinion on the great flood is two-fold.
It was in the Mediterranean area and flooded parts of Iraq.
The flood legend could have been carried far afield by many peoples and since it was a bit of a moral tale, it was adopted by others.

Along with that, most areas of the world have experienced major flooding and their flood tales could have been intermixed with the biblical flood story.

Good discussion.

Originally posted by undo
I don't necessarily believe in a global flood, but i do have a couple interesting things to add to the discussion:

There IS indication of a massive flood, high enough to cover mountain tops, in the stories from south america. Now bear with me a moment. This may have been possible because at one time, the land referred to was actually much lower, but due to tectonic forces, was eventually driven upwards. When the texts were translated, the translators assumed the areas in question were mountains in the time of the writings.

One of the ancient cities, even though discovered at a super high elevation, shows signs of having been a port city, on a coastline!

Uplift isn't going to work that quickly.

This, of course, would not be global and as a result, you will find areas where a severe flood is indicated, and other areas where it isn't.

but the problem is that we don't find anything resembling a layer that is consistent with a global flood, we don't find anything even approaching a continuous food layer, for example. It also has to have happened relatively recently in order for it to be in human records.

so it would only take a semi-global flood to flood all the inhabitated lands.

More likely, it would just take a flooding of their own river one season. Imagine if Katrina had happened thousands of years ago, we'd have stories about wrath from the sky and everything being flooded.

lostinspace
When the upper atmosphere lost the ability to hold the canopy

There never was any 'vapour canopy'; besides that fact that there's no evidence for such a thing ever existing, to have that much water in the atmosphere would increase pressure at Earth's surface to unlivable. And then to have it come crashing down, that wouldn't be a survivable event either. Not to mention that its pressence would eliminate sunlight along with any radiation, and that human lifespan's don't become exceptionally long just because they get exposed to less solar radiation.

cybertroy
, and civilization seems to have stopped suddenly

All archaeological evidence shows that cities and civilization slowly built up over time, not a sudden appearance.

We should have been driving a car, oh, 1500 years ago, looking at where civilization was about 2000 years ago.

Why should the current rate of technological innovation be some sort of constant for all socieites and all times??? Without the renaissance, enlightenment, and age of reason, we wouldn't have any of the things we have now. We have these things because of the work of science; people in the past didn't use a scientific method to investigate the world. They relied on holy books and myths and the like.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Imagine if Katrina had happened thousands of years ago, we'd have stories about wrath from the sky and everything being flooded.

Yep. In fact, what we'd have is almost word for word what we have in the Mesopotamian stories of Atrahasis and in Gilgamesh Which make more of the wind and the noise than it does the rain.

Which is why I personally think that is exactly what they do descibe - a rare, but meteorologically possible, tropical cyclone in the Persian Gulf. Something which, unfortunately, however, is impossible to prove.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The real purpose of the Deluge was to limit the life span of the human being. Man lived too long with his constant bad thoughts. The planet was perfectly tuned to his design for longevity. Something had to break in Earth's system to reduce the life span. An insulator surrounding the Earth had to be broken. When the upper atmosphere lost the ability to hold the canopy, it came down in the form of torrential rain. The Deluge "killed two birds with one stone", as the saying goes. It began the declining mortality rate (maximum limit to be 120 yrs) and it also killed off those highly offensive to God, especially the Nephelim.

Well, two pages, have been filled, and you are the First Here, with this notation.

Congratulations!

I have stayed away from this, for one singular reason, namely being we did not quite cover everything we could that science can reason.

And you have leap headlong into the mix with this.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the
waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which
were under the firmament from the waters which were above
the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the
morning were the second day.

What does this spell out in Simple English.

God made a "Barrier" that seperated the waters from the waters.

This "Barrier" devided the waters below the "barrier" from the waters above the "Barrier"

And the "Barrier" was called Heaven.

And so the simple, are not confused, we can review the third day.

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered
together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it
was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering
together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it
was good.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb
yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his
kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed
after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was
in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.

This second portion is so those who are easily confused, understand Firmament has nothing to do with the Earth or Dryland.

You have noted, quite correctly, and in a simple message, something we today do not even consider. The Firmament.

I leave this for others to ponder for now. But I will say, we will eventually get here in detail.

Ciao

Shane

Just a note to all, PLEASE don't use the "code" tags, use the 'ex' tags to have text in the white box. Code tags make boxes that screw up a lot of people's page widths.