<My Near Death Experience and Ascent to Heaven>

Yes that's an accurate quote. They could prevent pain in the first inch or so with a numbing shot like you get from the dentist then the rest of the way would be unmediated. I don't remember the pain because I found myself rising to heaven before I felt any. I was spared the pain and given a choice to return or stay in heaven.

It's ok if you find a different explanation for my experience. You can put faith in whatever you choose. No offence friend....


[edit on 2/16/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
Yes that's an accurate quote. They could prevent pain in the first inch or so with a numbing shot like you get from the dentist then the rest of the way would be unmediated. I don't remember the pain because I found myself rising to heaven before I felt any. I was spared the pain and given a choice to return or stay in heaven.

It's ok if you find a different explanation for my experience. You can put faith in whatever you choose. No offence friend....


[edit on 2/16/2007 by kinglizard]

No offense taken. This image explains our 2 avenues of thought:


You got the idea that you ascended to heaven. I gave you contradicting evidence. Now, you're going to ignore that contradicting evidence. Then your going to keep the idea forever.

That's what really disturbs me about faith. It doesn't make any sense.


[edit on 2/16/07 by RedDragon]

Originally posted by RedDragon
You got the idea that you ascended to heaven. I gave you contradicting evidence. Now, you're going to ignore that contradicting evidence. Then your going to keep the idea forever.

Interesting. lol

You suggest '___' causes NDE...I tell you I wasn't on '___'...you then suggest I was "heavily drugged on pain killers and muscle relaxers"...I tell you I wasn't "heavily drugged and on pain killers and muscle relaxers"....THEN you tell me my body created the drugs to deal with the pain and that created the NDE...I tell you I didn't feel any pain because I was out of my body before I felt pain.

Now you tell me that I'm ignoring your "contradicting evidence". lol

Originally posted by RedDragon
That's what really disturbs me about faith. It doesn't make any sense.

Please follow your own conversation. You are so focused on proving your own preconceived ideas that you throw out any and all fleeting thoughts to prove yourself right. Let the evidence lead you to the answer don't let YOUR answer lead you to your evidence...that is if you want to be scientific...

Anyway you should feel free to believe whatever you like...I feel no obligation to prove anything to you...I'm just trying to share my story with as much accuracy as possible.

Peace and blessings to all.....



[edit on 2/17/2007 by kinglizard]

In response to severe pain or trauma, the body will give you a natural dose of opiates. While this could indeed alter your mental state a bit, I don't think it's anywhere near that which would occur from '___' or other drugs, and probably wouldn't be responsible for full blown hallucinations.

On the other hand, the experience could send you into shock, causing the person to black out and lose consciousness...this combined with the opiates, and just the unconscious state in general could give you a dream-like experience with "hallucinations" that could be very real. I think kinglizard said that those around him confirmed that he didn't black out, but I read through this thread a while back and I don't remember now.

I reread your original post, you say "They can only numb you so far as they can’t numb your entire chest" I had my lung collapse in Oct 06 and I had go through a similar procedure, do you not think that the anaesthesia could have had an dissociative affect upon you rather than say It being purely and truly something from God? Perhaps your beliefs and subconscious brain dictated what you saw while disaccociated from your physical body.


While I could still feel some pain as they cut open the side of my ribcage and inserted a 2 prong tube, when I closed my eyes I would see wild imagery, at times almost kaleidoscopic, no fanatical images of a kingdom made of clouds though.


Instead I saw a large rectangular object that was orange, very shiny, looked wet almost, and then it began to drip, at some points. Drip down unto me and then it would go into fractucals. I could sometimes kind of see myself in a third person view.

I'm not trying to change your beliefs or tell you what you saw was wrong or anything of that, just saying it's possible the medicine could have contributed to this affect. Anaesthesia has been known to make one feel removed from their body, and you remain conscious whilst under other forms of it you are unconscious.

As for me and the hospital I enjoyed my orange wet monolith, I didn't think of praying or any thing of that nature, nor did I call out to a mystic orange monolith it just appeared.

Also they say they can recreate NDE by use of electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe. The brain is an amazing piece of biomatter.

My advice is live it up, cause you never know when you'll croak.

Originally posted by RedDragon



In fact, we can chemically recreate near-death-experiences and other so-called "spiritual" experiences. In this case, you'd just need to take '___' and you might experience the same hallucination all over again.

Check this out RedDragon

www.abovetopsecret.com...

An NDE researcher has come to the conclusion that consciousness does exist outside of the brain, and has provided his evidence for that found in his research.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
An NDE researcher has come to the conclusion that consciousness does exist outside of the brain, and has provided his evidence for that found in his research.

I have had quite a few of out-of-body experiences myself...sometimes on purpose, other times accidentally. I still haven't decided if they are simply a very detailed, realistic, elaborate dream, or if they are actually allowing you to experience a different "dimension" or view of reality. My rational mind tells me it's a dream, but some of the things that happened during these experiences convince me otherwise.

For example, I've had incredibly vivid experiences (that didn't feel like a dream, I was completely conscious it seemed) where, my vision is actually from a perspective that I have never viewed from before. In one instance, I was lying on my bed in "reality". From my out-of-body perspective and vision, I could very clearly see myself, my bed, my room, everything where it should be. Only the weird part is that I was floating about 7 feet up in the air, in a far corner of my room. I have never actually been in this position in real life, and never looked from this place. Yet it felt incredibly real, like I just floated up there. Many dreams can be realistic, but there's always some flaw where you know it's not real. This felt real, and I have a picture perfect image in my memory of looking down onto my room from that angle, as if I have actually done it. I'm not so sure if it was a dream or not.

Also the issue of feeling two bodies at once...how can you simultaneously "know" you are lying on a bed sleeping, as well as slipping out of your body, touching or lying on the ground next to your bed, feeling the exact surfaces of objects where they should be, textures, etc...in a dream? It's quite interesting and thought provoking, although I still think that my mind is capable of creating this fantasy within a dream. However, part of me still can't believe that.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by RedDragon



In fact, we can chemically recreate near-death-experiences and other so-called "spiritual" experiences. In this case, you'd just need to take '___' and you might experience the same hallucination all over again.

Check this out RedDragon

www.abovetopsecret.com...

An NDE researcher has come to the conclusion that consciousness does exist outside of the brain, and has provided his evidence for that found in his research.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

I took this from the original post in the ATS sub-forum it was posted...

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Some years ago, Dutch cardiologist Pim v Lommel published a paper in the Lancet about his research into near death experiences, in which he came to the conclusion that life can exist outside of the physical body.

van Lommel didn't actually conclude that consciousness exists outside of the body during NDE in the Lancet article, he just raised the idea. He may believe this to be the case, and much of his writing out of the literature suggests this, but he doesn't seem to actually have the solid evidence to conclude so.

He also raised the other theories based on physiology and suggested they may not be able to account, as they are, for NDEs because they should expect all people pronounced clinically dead to report one.

However, it is also just as true that we may expect all people who are pronounced clinically dead should suffer an NDE if consciousness does exist separately from body. Why do only the physiological theories have to be laden with this problem?

He would need to answer why we would expect it to always occur for physiological theories and not for a dualist theory.

What he seems to miss, IMO, is that it is quite possible that the NDE may not have a true correlation to the period of clinical death, but be related to the period of recovery or even as the brain fades, we don't know that time during the NDE relates temporally to the real-world, or even that time passes in the same way as during consciousness. He brings up the denture example as possible evidence that this is not the case, however, this is purely anecdotal, and it is quite possible other reasons underlie this anecdote.

He also assumes that because there seems to be no EEG activity, this equals no brain activity, however, EEG can only measure surface activity of the brain, there could well be much limbic activity (the more emotional areas) occuring and the NDE being an attempt to interpret this activity in some coherent manner.

The idea that consciousness is somehow floating separate from the brain in some way is quite unsupported by the current findings in neuroscience. In fact, they suggest otherwise.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by melatonin]

Kinglizard I wanted to thank you. I'm going through traumatic times right now as a struggling college student and young adult in the harsh reality of life. I recently lost my apartment and moving back home with my mother in order to pay off some of my debt. It just hit hard ya know? That feeling of failure and disgrace.

In these times I've always turned to find some sort of help whether it be from God, or a pagan idol, I've never been able to find peace. Its always seemed so unreal and that ever present feeling of foolishness and being lost seemed overwhelming. After reading your experience I can say that I need work as a good irish catholic, but that I will give it my best full hearted attempt.

After the life I've been through, Heaven sounds so....sirene. So peaceful, so magnificent. I would be a fool to ignore your account. I'm enlisting in the Marine Corps, but afterwards, I thought becoming a missionary as you'd spoke about.

I know this is all pretty random, but THANK YOU. I honestly think I can say your story may have changed my life. I only hope you find that sense of peace again one day.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
kinglizard,

Have you ever considered the possibility that your experience was induced by your subconscious and has no true divine origin? That in fact your mind produced this hallucination based on your own subconscious desires in order to relieve your body of stress so that it would increase your chances of survival?

This experience sounds very “picture perfect” and entirely based on human perception. Why would there be Gold in heaven, or walls for that matter?

Best wishes,
VladTheImpaler

You never answered my above question, but I'd also like to ask why is this thread stickied? Is your experience and your belief in God somehow special? Can I have my Atheism experience stickied?

WOW!!! I can only imagine the pain you must have went through, but it was worth it having that experience, it sounds beautiful and I loved reading about it, thanks for sharing something so personal and extremely beautiful.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by truthseeker1011]

Thank you for your comments truthseeker. I feel so honored to be able to tell it to you my friend.

Blessings...

could this expirience have something to do with the massive amount of painkillers you had taken? mabe

you also could have gone into a state of simi-shock. like a half dream state. just another sugestion. there are many others, not just the supernatural one which can exlane any thing you want it to.

Hi kinglizard,

I'm new to this forum and couldn't help noticing your post, infact i only registered to ask you some questions

I'm confused and i wouldn't really like to ask anyone i know in real life, so i'd rather ask people who i don't know..

I'm 17 in may and im from London, I have a lot of questions i'd like to ask you.

you say that if you accept jesus he will help you? I've asked for help and he does help me, thats how I know jesus exists and he is the true son of god and i know that he died on the cross to soak up my sins and everyone elses, all we have to do is accept this.

the fact im trying to raise is that... my skin colour is brown and people tend to say that because i am brown, i cannot be a christian and they laugh in my face, therefore i feel ashamed or embarassed to say i am a christian, this has made me feel very depressed and i've done some bad things which i don't really want to say.

I've lost faith and i'm beginning to do things i wouldn't normally do..

Sorry if i've wasted your time, but i really wanted to express this with someone.

ive began to study the arts of kung fu, wing chun and tai chi.

I spend most of my time training now in martial arts, ive even began to skip school to train, Badminton is also something im taking alot of time in.

I've started to see signs, and i feel that something is coming soon and if i don't change my attitude something is going to happen. I need someones help. I am doing wrong which i know is wrong and is wrong in gods eyes aswell, but its something i don't think anyone can forgive.

Originally posted by kinjiru
my skin colour is brown and people tend to say that because i am brown, i cannot be a christian and they laugh in my face, therefore i feel ashamed or embarassed to say i am a christian, this has made me feel very depressed and i've done some bad things which i don't really want to say.

Christian = Follower of Christ

If you follow Jesus Christ and accept him as your savior you are a saved Christian. To suggest that being accepted as a Christian is based on the color of you skin is absurd and far from what the Bible teaches. Be proud of yourself and your faith don't listen to those people....they will have to answer for the things they said to you and you will be blessed.

Originally posted by kinjiru
I've started to see signs, and i feel that something is coming soon and if i don't change my attitude something is going to happen. I need someones help. I am doing wrong which i know is wrong and is wrong in gods eyes aswell, but its something i don't think anyone can forgive.

You already know the answer don't you. It may be difficult to stop whatever you are doing but you have the strength within you to change.

Our sins are washed with the blood of Christ, he died for the sinners not the righteous. Ask for his help, pray to him daily and refocus your mind on the things that you know should be focused on. It's never too late to turn things around...I know you know exactly what you need to do so pray for help and guidance then take a first small step in the right direction as a sign to God that you want to change and are willing to make change.

As you grow in faithful action you will grow in faith and receive his blessings.


[edit on 4/23/2007 by kinglizard]

kinjiru!

You don't need Christ, it's all just imaginary. Christ never existed (there is absolutely no evidence of his existence), God is a delusion and the Bible was written and re-written by men on several occasions, it's not the divine and infallible word of God.

Educate your self and you’ll start to see how silly faith really is. You don’t need it to mess up your life!

www.thebricktestament.com...

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

www.youtube.com...

Take responsibility for your own life and actions and don’t blame it on Satan, you will certainly be much better off! There’s nothing wrong with studying martial arts, it may even lead you to a deeper understanding of your self.

School is overrated.

Ultimately God is redundant and will be little but a negative drain on your life.

Vlad

Hi KingLizard!

Anyway you should feel free to believe whatever you like...I feel no obligation to prove anything to you...I'm just trying to share my story with as much accuracy as possible.

Peace and blessings to all.....

KingLizard,
You only need answer to God......your story is of great faith.

take care

IX
helen

thank you king lizard for the advice, but what i've done is beyond forgiving, because i've already asked for forgiveness, and almost straight after, i've commited the same sin again.

The saying "Walk in the light" comes into mind, but what i've done, i would rather not be in the light about it.. I'm having to lie to hide facts from my family and friends and the lies are mounting.

The matter is not on martial arts, i do martial arts to take my mind off things.

my friend, you say that god is not existant and jesus is not? How comes when i was in desperation of help while i was a child, it would seem impossible for help in some of the situations i was in. but i called out to jesus, and guess what? he helped me through those terrible times, he turned things around. ever since then, i have never doubted the existence of god.

One thing i remember was when i cried out to god about something i don't remember when i was a child, and i opened the bible at a random page it had a specific passage to what i was asking help for. This was most definately not a coincidence, God is real.

Originally posted by kinjiru
my friend, you say that god is not existant and jesus is not? How comes when i was in desperation of help while i was a child, it would seem impossible for help in some of the situations i was in. but i called out to jesus, and guess what? he helped me through those terrible times, he turned things around. ever since then, i have never doubted the existence of god.

One thing i remember was when i cried out to god about something i don't remember when i was a child, and i opened the bible at a random page it had a specific passage to what i was asking help for. This was most definately not a coincidence, God is real.

Bull[expletive]! You helped your self; you don't need to give credit to some fantasy force. You got you through some of those "terrible times".

So how exactly did the Bible enlighten you? Were you masturbating while thinking of homosexual erotic images in your head when you opened the bible and found the truth? Did the Lord make you realize your sin and thus save you from Hell? Praise Jesus Christ, halleluja, amen!

Dude, wake up, start thinking and you'll realize that you don't need God to solve your problems. The belief in the asshole God of the Bible will cause you much strain.



[edit on 24-4-2007 by VladTheImpaler]