Ahmadinejad consults the Spook

www.joels-trumpet.com...

Is the Mahdi Here?
April 22nd, 2006

The frightening truth of why Iran wants a bomb
By Amir Taheri
(Filed: 16/04/2006)

Last Monday, just before he announced that Iran had gatecrashed “the nuclear club”, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappeared for several hours. He was having a khalvat (tête-à-tête) with the Hidden Imam, the 12th and last of the imams of Shiism who went into “grand occultation” in 941.

According to Shia lore, the Imam is a messianic figure who, although in hiding, remains the true Sovereign of the World. In every generation, the Imam chooses 36 men, (and, for obvious reasons, no women) naming them the owtad or “nails”, whose presence, hammered into mankind’s existence, prevents the universe from “falling off”. Although the “nails” are not known to common mortals, it is, at times, possible to identify one thanks to his deeds. It is on that basis that some of Ahmad-inejad’s more passionate admirers insist that he is a “nail”, a claim he has not discouraged. For example, he has claimed that last September, as he addressed the United Nations’ General Assembly in New York, the “Hidden Imam drenched the place in a sweet light”.

Last year, it was after another khalvat that Ahmadinejad announced his intention to stand for president. Now, he boasts that the Imam gave him the presidency for a single task: provoking a “clash of civilisations” in which the Muslim world, led by Iran, takes on the “infidel” West, led by the United States, and defeats it in a slow but prolonged contest that, in military jargon, sounds like a low intensity, asymmetrical war.

....It's getting weirder by the minute. I truly hope he is just crazy, I'm not in the mood to meet the Antichrist during my lifetime.





www.coxandforkum.com...

[edit on 22-4-2006 by Nakash]



[Mod Edit: Trimmed quote - Jak]

[edit on 23/4/06 by JAK]

So, any bets on the identity of the "secret imam?"


A. Leader of the "greys"

B. Earth's Reptoid overlord

C. Maitreya

D. Lam

E. First true Aryan Overman, who is destine to sit at the head of all tables

F. Louis S. Cyphre

G. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

I doubt the "secret Imam" exists, he must be crazy. Yet his advisors are talking that "the Mahdi" will appear within two years, and that he has met the secret Imam (he's a "nail" and all that stuff in the article). This concerns me tremendously since Islamic end of times prophecy claims that Iran will start a a world war, and that armies with black flags will "march undefeated" from Khurasan (Iran) to Jerusalem. No, I am not kiddng. This also coincides with the whole Biblical Antichrist thing we so often discuss. Shiite Muslims are ecstatic and claim their "messiah" is going to appear very soon. In University the other day Shiites even put up a show with black flags. I know many people think the whole religious angle to all this is bogus, but you don't have to believe in God to be worried- it could all end up as a self-fullfilling prophecy.

[edit on 22-4-2006 by Nakash]

I agree Nakash. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, in order to cause the end of "you" and millions of others.


I think westerners who are secular have a tough time admitting that other people can genuinely be motivated by religious piety. In a RL discussion with a secularist, his position was that religious issues are "really about" poverty, racism, economics, etc.

He totally discounted the idea that people could be motivated to any kind of risk or sacrifice for a religious ideal.

I think the western world, having broken free of communual religious motives, thinks ALL people around the globe share the same (materialsitic) outlook. This is not the case.

They don't. In fact every single latinamerican, African, Asian, and so forth I meet is startled at the degree of materialism they see in America and Europe. This ideological vacuum will prove to be the downfall of both regions.

He was having a khalvat (tête-à-tête) with the Hidden Imam, the 12th and last of the imams of Shiism who went into “grand occultation” in 941.

....

I am just going to say right off the bat that I don't beleive this. I agree that Ahmadinejad is trying to "emantantize the eschaton", HOWEVER, that he actually thinks he talks to the occulted Imam?????

So, he thinks he is the Bab? I very much doubt that, or at least would like to have/see some better documentation of this. Only the bab is the door to heaven, to the occulted Mahdi Mohammed. Him talking to the Mahdi is like someone saying "I am Jesus, returned" (sort of), whereas I'd but his insanity on the level of "I prayed to jesus and i'm going to do this because its what he'd want me to do"

(christians talk to god all the time, and he responds, according to them, but shia don't, as far as I understand it, talk to the occulted Imam, not without being the Bab).
But, perhaps I don't understand it fully, as they are giving a word to the process of 'talking to the hidden imam', which implies that it happens alot. Hopefully a shia here can clarify, especially an iranian shia.

I doubt the "secret Imam" exists,

??

The secret imam is supposed to be a guy who is hidden but will return, and has been hidden for hundreds of years. What do you mean you 'doubt' he exists? If you were not a shiite, why would you beleive it at all?


As an aside, notice the similarities, cross-religion, here. In christianity, the messiah dies, is reborn, ascends to heaven, will returned, while alive he reformed the religion or brought about a new one, and upon return ushers in the end of the world. The shia mahdi is a guy who used to exist, became 'occulted' (lit. hidden), will become un-occulted and return, he sends out reformers to keep the religion righeteous, and upon un-occulation, ushers in the end of the world. The sunni Mahdi hasn't existed yet, will come, and will reform the world and bring about the end of it too. The mainstream jews expect that the messiah will come about and are waiting for him, and he will bring them israel as the promised land of milk and honey. The lubavitch chasidics, their grand rebbe died, and they expect him to come back to life, and bring into being a holy state of israel as the messiah also.

So throughout all of the semitic religions, we see this thing where the leader will come, fix things, and bring about the end of the world too. Incidentally, the mahdi doesn't bring about the end of the world for the muslims, the mahdi in a sense prepares the way for Jesus to come back, who is also in something like occultation or somesuch, and its him that will end the world.

ALso, interestingly, in Iran, there was a man who claimed to be the Bab, the one whom the occulted imam mahdi mohammed contacts personally. One of the bab's followers later claimed ot be the mahdi, the reformer, this faith is now called the Bha'i or some such, so in that we can see what these semitic religions look like 'post-apocalypse', so to speak

Yes, sorry, this was very divergent, but it provides some background and possibly shows why its strange that Ahmadinejad would say he is talking ot the occulted imam.

Originally posted by Nygdan

notice the similarities, cross-religion, here. In christianity, . . .

. . . . The shia mahdi is a guy who used to exist, became 'occulted' (lit. hidden), will become un-occulted and return . . . .

To amplify what you said, the Christian parallel of this process of becoming "un-occulted" is refered to by the Greek term which means "the appearance of the hidden:"

"APO - CALUPSOS"

Anglicized as "apocalypse," of course.





[edit on 23-4-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

Of course I don't believe in hidden Imams, but I do believe in Antichrist and this 12th Imam fits the bill to the last tittle. Got my point? Course the guy could be either crazy or a mole. Or not..... (conspiracy angle). Oh interesting that you mentioned the Lubbavitchers Nygdan, gotta love those guys who think that idiot rebbe bigot was the messiah and are still waiting for him to pop out of the grave (no offense to Jews here, just I have issues against a sect as extreme as the Lubbavitchers, just as I would be against Wahhabi Islam, or Branch Davidians in Christianity). Noahide.com .....love that website (gotta love a website basically attempting to convince people to be slaves).


[edit on 23-4-2006 by Nakash]

I read this article and was sucked into it like the rest....that is until I read this part:

According to this analysis, spelled out in commentaries by Ahmadinejad’s strategic guru, Hassan Abassi, known as the “Dr Kissinger of Islam”, President George W Bush is an aberration, an exception to a rule under which all American presidents since Truman, when faced with serious setbacks abroad, have “run away”. Iran’s current strategy, therefore, is to wait Bush out. And that, by “divine coincidence”, corresponds to the time Iran needs to develop its nuclear arsenal, thus matching the only advantage that the infidel enjoys.

That almost sounded like something out of Carl Rove's mouth!

So, I decided to check on this Amir Taheri. It turns out that he works for Benador Associates:

Benador Associates is a public relations firm based in New York and Washington, specialized in the areas of media applied to politics, conflict resolution, the dialogue of civilisations, foreign policy, national security, anti-terrorism, defense of human rights and freedom of religion, among others.

We are also the only public relations firm in the United States that doubles as international speakers' bureau for the experts we represent. We have close contacts with the media, printed, audio and audiovisual, on a national and international level. Our activities expand worldwide.

Should you have any questions regarding public relations for corporations, media requests and selecting experts to enhance your events please do not hesitate to write to Ms Benador at [email protected].

That is obviously from their website. See what others say about Benador Associates:

Benador Associates is a public relations firm that was founded by Eleana Benador, the former director of Daniel Pipe's Middle East Forum, a hard-line think thank whose members have urged for wider U.S. intervention in the Middle East. Benador's list of experts reads like a who's who of heavy hitters in the neoconservative advocacy world. Clients include Frank Gaffney, Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, and James Woolsey.

Wrties journalist Jim Lobe of Benador's work: "When historians look back on the United States war in Iraq, they will almost certainly be struck by how a small group of mainly neo-conservative analysts and activists outside the administration were able to shape the US media debate in ways that made the drive to war so much easier than it might have been. . . . But historians would be negligent if they ignored the day-to-day work of one person who, as much as anyone outside the administration, made their media ubiquity possible. Meet Eleana Benador, the Peruvian-born publicist for Perle, Woolsey, Michael Ledeen, Frank Gaffney and a dozen other prominent neo-conservatives whose hawkish opinions proved very hard to avoid for anyone who watched news talk shows or read the op-ed pages of major newspapers over the past 20 months."

Source.

See also,

Source Watch on Benador Associates.
Wikipeadia on Benador Associates.
Center for Media and Democracy on Benasor Associates.

A very interesting read on Eleana Benador.

She's been very busy with the article that is the subject of this thread. See here.

Yeah, I trust everything published in the article...

I wonder who their "corporate clients" are for this fear mongering nonsense? The situation in Iran is complicated and serious enough without muddling the situation with sensationalistic crap... Now we know who whips up the froth.... :shk:

EDIT: Btw, not that I really care, but why is this thread in the Board Questions & Business forum? After what I've found, I think it's better suited to the Deconstructing Disinformation & Deflection forum.


[edit on 23-4-2006 by loam]

Nice job, loam. When I was shaving this morning, I was thinking about this article and the questionable idea that the Iran's prez says he "talked to the imam."

I started thinking more about the choice of phrasing almost designed to push the buttons of protestants, and as I sat down at the computer, I was just thinking "I wonder who the source of the 'Mahdi' article was. . . ."

Obviously, you were leaps and bounds ahead of me. And did the actual, factual work of digging up the source. I think I've heard of this Beneador associates somewhere else . . . .

Anyway, nice job ! Way above

~~
amen to your added EDIT: by loam


~~

swinging back to a dog-eat-dog perspective

I found this article pretty earthy
Ahmadinejad; Crazy like a Fox...is setting a trap!

or else: Sitting On A Volcano by Brian Zepp Jamieson

www.mytown.ca...


He doesn't want to just sting America.
He wants to humiliate America,
to slap America hard enough that no country in the middle east
will respect or tolorate them any more.
And he believes he can do it.
(...)

He(Ahmadinejad) is also confident that all the Shia which provide services to
the 'Green Zone' will arise from hiding among the Americans to
attack the westerners when/if Iran is attacked.
Same with the Basra area, which finds it strategic to allow the
small British garrison to control that southern region....for now!

OK, so the article is linked to a neocon. He still doesn't discourages the rumour of having talked to the Imam, he also already made Iran's top policy objective the coming of the Imam, and named a street after him. You can only spin up to a point you know....

I believe something is amiss here, it is perfectly plausible that Iran's president is baiting, why else open his mouth knowing that his comments would be used against him?

[edit on 23-4-2006 by Nakash]

ok I had to read this about 5 times, do a few searches then come back and post -

OMFG!! this guys is either, A) A total and utter nutter (Maybe) or B) So right we are all up a very very deep dark smelly creek, with no boat and certainly no paddles.

A nuclear Iran, lead by this utter utter raver>??? oh Holy Sweet Jesus I really don't want to see this.... and what if they really are going to unite the Islamic world for a war?? oh this just gets worse by the day....

I am stunned.

The big issue is the source, where'd this guy get the word that Amahdinejad talks directly to the occulted Imam? That source seems to be not even mentioned. Heck, perhaps its entirely made up. Perhaps its a dissident from with-in the state of iran.


ALso, lets recall for a moment that Iran was able to feed the US false information in the lead up to the Iraq war, through an iraqi dissident, Chalabi. His information made no small part of the decision to go to war.

Conceivably, a competitor of Iran is feeding this stuff to the article authory, as misinformation. It'd be naive to just beleive something just because it seems to make sense. We'd need more information to determine the veracity of it.

Well, I think it's important to see what Iran's president himself said:

"followers of this divine school of Islamic thought are doing their best to pave the way for his [the 12th Imam's] urgent reappearance."

"Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam."

World without Zionism conference.

From the beginning of time, humanity has longed for the day when justice, peace, equality and compassion envelop the world. All of us can contribute to the establishment of such a world. When that day comes, the ultimate promise of all divine religions will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being who is heir to all prophets and pious men. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace. O mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace."

After the UN speech

"a light"( surrounding me as soon as I uttered the words) "in the name of God."

(The UN )"had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic"

Conversation between him and the Ayatollah Amoli as recorded by an advisor.

There's even a street named for the Mahdi and a "Mahdi hotline". I think he's serious....

I think he's seriously pious too, BUT, thats quite different from him thinking that he is physcially talking with the occulted Imam, that he is "The Bab". It'd be like someone turning to you on the bus and saying "You know what, I'm the Metatron".