China's "Unrestricted Warfare"

Rasobasi:

To add to Jakomo, It is people have a right to a speedy and public trial. How long have prisoners been held in Guantanamo without a speedy or public trial?

Four years, held in outdoor cages, and systematically interrogated during that time. No access to any outside entities except when the Red Cross comes to visit. Otherwise 100% incommunicado.

And when they finally do get to trial (a military tribunal), I am sure they find it particularly ironic that their OWN DEFENSE LAWYER is wearing a US military uniform.

I just hope these guys have a sense of humor about it when they get out.

Of course, the fact that the US public doesn't really seem to do much about it might also force them to revise their hatreds from just the US government to the actual population, which they probably perceive supports it.


Let the good times roll!







-jakomo

The main one was the WORLD part. There was something called the ALLIES. Not a laughable Coalition filled with 3rd World countries.

Actually the allies in WW2 were made up of many third world countries. And I would defiantly not consider the United Kingdom , Australia , Japan , Italy , Denmark , Netherlands and others as 3rd world countries or as "laughable". Your disrespect for other FREE countries of the world is staggering.

Saddam killed a few thousand Kurds after 1991 (an internal insurrection), with full support of the US, did he check any IDs?

Wow you speak of a few thousand innocent people executed as if it were nothing. But how about TENS AND POSSIBLE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS

www.usaid.gov...
www.cpa-iraq.org... www.worldnetdaily.com...

I have no idea what you are talking about when you said check any IDs??? These were roting corpses arms behind their back with bullet holes through their head. Buried in massive trenches and holes.

"killed a few thousand Kurds with full support of the US"?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?????????????????

so what about the 30 years you supported him with munitions and millions of dollars

Weapons were sold to Iraq when Iran made it clear its intentions were to invade and defeat Iraq then in a vast radical Islamic revolution conquer the middle east resulting in a radical Muslim empire that would have controlled the vast majority of the worlds oil. And of coarse destroyed Israel. That being said selling Iraq weapons was undoubtedly the wrong thing to do. However stopping the Iranian assault and driving them out with US forces while trying to topple Saddam at that point would have been a nightmare.

Nicaragua. Colombia. El Salvador. Honduras. Every single one of these countries has had terrorist elements SUPPORTED by the US in the last 40 years. Guilty on all 4 counts

ANY ACTS OF THESE SUPPORTED FIGHTERS WAS A DIRECT ACT OF WAR BY THE US!!!!!!! A war to free these countries from oppressive Marxist dictators and drug lord control!!


I said quote: I think you need to read the Geneva conventions it is not illegal to detain terrorist!!
you said :

Please send me the link and highlight the passage that claims this.

Ok.. ' At the risk of getting into a Geneva convention debate in this thread please go here www.genevaconventions.org... Go to the alphabet list and go to T.. then scroll down to terrorism. If you wish to debate the Geneva Conventions with me then I suggest lets start a new thread more related to that topic.

What planet have you been living on? How many people have been charged with ANYTHING in Guantanamo? 10. Out of how many. So wtf are you talking about?

I thought you were talking about people in the US that were being accused of terrorism and now I see you are talking about Guantanamo !! A detainment camp for WAR CRIMINALS!!!!!!!!!

The people being detained are militant combatants (who did not follow the Geneva Conventions in any way shape of form!!) that were captured either fighting allied forces in Afghanistan and Iraq or on their nearby borders!!! War criminals are not released back into their native countries until AFTER the war is over with!!!

Ok now that we both have strayed way off the thread topic of China as a military threat to the US mainland... Lets get back to it , or else start a new thread about anti americanism and we can debate about your "evil USA" views without contaminating this thread.


[edit on 27-4-2006 by Heckman]

Heckman:

Actually the allies in WW2 were made up of many third world countries.

Whatever. You are trying somehow to find parallels between the Iraq War and World War II when there are so few and they are incredibly stretched...

The USA didn't get involved in World War II until 1941, only after they were directly attacked. You watched while Hitler took over most of Europe and didn't do SQUAT until they themselves were affected. So spare me the "USA saved the world in WWII" rhetoric.

Wow you speak of a few thousand innocent people executed as if it were nothing. But how about TENS AND POSSIBLE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS

ALL of which were filled with corpses while the USA was doing business with Saddam. Again, spare me your indignation over something that happened under the watchful eye of the US, and over 20 years ago.

Weapons were sold to Iraq

Yep, for whatever reasons. You sold them weapons to use against the Iranians. To use in a regional conflict which didn't involve you. Then you tried to invade them for possessing those same weapons .

killed a few thousand Kurds with full support of the US"?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?????????????????

I wish I was. After the 1991 Gulf War, the US allowed Saddam to brutally crush a Kurdish rebellion that could have toppled him.

www.cnn.com...

They began their revolt on March 1, just one day after Bush halted the war. But Saddam's battered Republican Guard divisions in the south quickly refashioned themselves and attacked Shi'ite guerrillas. Meanwhile, in the north, several Iraqi divisions moved to crush the Kurdish rebellion.

The U.S. inadvertently helped Saddam annihilate the rebels by agreeing in the cease-fire deal negotiated by General Norman Schwarzkopf to allow Iraqi generals to continue flying their helicopters--a mistake because Saddam then used them to strafe rebels on the ground.

Desperate Shi'ite and Kurdish leaders begged the U.S. military for help. But Colin Powell, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, wanted U.S. troops safely home, not mired in what might become a messy civil war. Secretary of State James Baker feared the "Lebanonization of Iraq."

A war to free these countries from oppressive Marxist dictators and drug lord control!!

AHAHAHAHA! You were trying to free oppressed people in South America by funding guerrillas? Why did you support Noriega? Somoza?

The CIA led a coup in 1973 against the democratically elected President of Chile, Salvador Allende, and replaced him with Pinochet, whom the US supported right up until he fled the country and was charged with war crimes.

Read something.

And WHAT are you talking about in the Geneva Conventions.

Find me where it says you can illegally detain foreign fighters.

All civil laws in a territory continue to apply to internees who commit offenses during internment. However, if an act is only punishable when committed by internees and not other civilians, then that act can only be punished by disciplinary punishments...

If an occupying power considers it necessary for imperative reasons of security, it may restrict civilians to assigned residents or to internment. Due process must be followed and internees must have the right of appeal. In addition, cases must be reviewed regularly, every six months if possible. (Convention IV, Art. 78)

In addition, internees must be allowed to receive allowances from their home countries, from the protecting power, or from relief societies. (Convention IV, Art. 39)

The civilian population is protected under the Geneva Conventions and these protections are not affected by the presence of combatants in the population. (Protocol I, Art. 50, Sec. 3)

I'll wait for your quotes from the GC detailing treatment of
"illegal combatants".... Start a new thread if you want.







[edit on 27-4-2006 by Jakomo]

You watched while Hitler took over most of Europe and didn't do SQUAT until they themselves were affected. So spare me the "USA saved the world in WWII" rhetoric.

I never made any statement of USA saved the world in WW2 at all! Where did you come up with this? I'm simply pointing out that according to you , during WW2 it was OK for the US to involve itself in a war and occupy Germany to remove the dangerous , evil and oppressive government. Yet now if the US involves itself in a occupation to remove an dangerous , evil and oppressive government it is suddenly" invading sovereign nations ".

Yep, for whatever reasons. You sold them weapons to use against the Iranians. To use in a regional conflict which didn't involve you.

Like when the US sold weapons to Russia in their regional conflict with Germany which didn't involve the US? I am curious do you think that was a crime as well?? The US did not sell Iraq weapons of mass destruction... However some accuse the US along with MANY other countries of helping Iraq develop them...

I wish I was. After the 1991 Gulf War, the US allowed Saddam to brutally crush a Kurdish rebellion that could have toppled him.

I was referring to the part where you said

Saddam killed a few thousand Kurds...with full US support

You actually think the US supported the killing of thousands of Kurds?

The U.S. inadvertently helped Saddam annihilate the rebels by agreeing in the cease-fire deal negotiated by General Norman Schwarzkopf to allow Iraqi generals to continue flying their helicopters--a mistake because Saddam then used them to strafe rebels on the ground.

WOW I find it totally amazing how you can blame the US for these people getting killed when it was IRAQI helicopters piloted by IRAQI pilots under orders of IRAQI generals reporting to IRAQI dictator SADDAM who killed them with the US having absolutely nothing to do with it. Do you actually think Saddam's generals said well can we please use our helicopters to mass murder our civilians? and the the US replies: sure why not???

AHAHAHAHA! You were trying to free oppressed people in South America by funding guerrillas.

Yes thats is why these nations "Nicaragua. Colombia. El Salvador. Honduras" all have free elections now because the guerrillas who were part of revolutions to create democratic governments!!!

Why did you support Noriega?

Perhaps you are unaware that Noriega is in a US prison? Oh WAIT probably illegally detained right?

The CIA led a coup in 1973 against the democratically elected President of Chile, Salvador Allende, and replaced him with Pinochet.

Salvador Allena was a Marxist who created a communist style government. He won the election by a relative majority but did not have the majority of the vote (therefor he was going to force the majority into a communist government). He was well connected with the KGB and was FUNDED BY THE SOVIET UNION.. That is the reason that the USA supported his opposition. This was during the COLD WAR..

Find me where it says you can illegally detain foreign fighters.

Again you say illegally detained. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO DETAIN ENEMY COMBATANTS ACCORDING TO THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS!!!! In fact much of the conventions deal with the treatment of POW (captured enemy combatants) If I have to point this out then you have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of the Geneva Conventions or you dont care and are only interested in making any kind of ANTI USA claims no mater what the facts.

Heckman:

I'm simply pointing out that according to you , during WW2 it was OK for the US to involve itself in a war and occupy Germany to remove the dangerous , evil and oppressive government. Yet now if the US involves itself in a occupation to remove an dangerous , evil and oppressive government it is suddenly" invading sovereign nations ".

Ok, let's do this slowly.

Germany, circa 1939-1941 : Huge army, massive air force, INVADING other countries in Europe and taking them over (Poland, France, Czech, etc).

Iraq, circa 2002 : THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, NO AIR FORCE, SMALL ARMY, NOT EVEN A THREAT TO THEIR NEIGHBOURS

Any of this sinking in?

The US did not sell Iraq weapons of mass destruction... However some accuse the US along with MANY other countries of helping Iraq develop them...

That's a lie. Look it up.

www.unobserver.com...

www.fff.org...


They sold Saddam dual use equipment, which the Bush admin cited as reason enough to invade (dual use items were proof enough of WMD to them)..

You actually think the US supported the killing of thousands of Kurds?

The US knew about the slaughter, they could have easily stopped it, thus they are implicated.

Yes thats is why these nations "Nicaragua. Colombia. El Salvador. Honduras" all have free elections now because the guerrillas who were part of revolutions to create democratic governments!!!

Seeing as how you ignore my links, which prove my points, and you just continue on with your fantastical statements, totally divorced from reality. South American countries have become more democratic DESPITE U.S. INVOLVEMENT, not because of it.

Do a Google search for "American involvement Latin America" and just read something.

Perhaps you are unaware that Noriega is in a US prison? Oh WAIT probably illegally detained right?

But you supported him right up until the end, and actually moved in to take him into U.S. custody rather than let HIS COUNTRY'S legal system deal with him. Why is that do you figure?

Salvador Allena was a Marxist who created a communist style government.

BS. He wanted to nationalize the copper industry and various other industries to give their profits to the Chilean people rather than US multinational corporations.

Check out some declassified docs from the National Security Archives.

www.gwu.edu...



Till you read something, I win.

NOT EVEN A THREAT TO THEIR NEIGHBORS

A threat to the ENTIRE WORLD!! How you not understand that radical Muslim terrorism is a VERY big danger to the ENTIRE WORLD ESPECIALLY if they acquire weapons such as anthrax , vx nerve gas and nuclear weapons ?? One reason that the US went to war was to keep them from getting them...

thats a lie

No it is not a lie. Even your anti US links do not say the US sold weapons of mass destruction to Iraq they do (as I said)--> ACCUSE the US and others of helping Iraq develop them (others such as Germany France Russia Italy...and others , some of which did sell them gas weapons ) Accusations made by the same anti United States UN that was taking bribes from Saddam in the oil for food program...

The US knew about the slaughter, they could have easily stopped it, thus they are implicated.

The US did not know about it until after the fact!! You mean to tell me that If the US would have invaded IRAQ at that point in time you would have supported it? More Flip flopping of your views.

South American countries have become more democratic DESPITE U.S. INVOLVEMENT, not because of it.

You are the one that needs to read. And read something different than distorted anti USA documents.

How about some actual national history of these nations and the battle between communism and freedom in south American countries.!

library.thinkquest.org...
www.countryreports.org...
www.honduras.com...
www.infoplease.com...

you supported him

Supported him by arresting him and putting him on trail?? More flip flopping. You logic continues to weaken.

He wanted to nationalize the copper industry and various other industries to give their profits to the Chilean people rather than US multinational corporations.

He FORCED the UNWILLING MAJORITY of the nation into communism with the use secret police and aid from the Soviet Union!!! How about you go read something.

YOU WIN?? only in your apparently very very limited mind!!! Most all of your statements have been totally untrue false accusations against the US and incorrect assumptions about history , military , US policy and the Geneva Conventions. All of which when corrected you either say "whatever" or ignore your previous statement and jump to a new false accusation. I think you made it clear that your anti USA accusations spawns from jealousy at the very beginning when you made the question/statement

Are Americans accustomed to having to do without ANYTHING??

To debate with you further on anything is pointless because you will simply continue to jump off topic from one false accusation to another and at the end of each statement saying "I WIN" ... for eternity ...................................................................................................................................................... ..............>>>

I say boil in your stew of anti USA hatred until you shake with anger and jealousy while spewing your false anti USA accusations . Meanwhile the USA and other free countries of the world continue to successfully promote democracy and freedom across the face of the earth. At the end of the day in your jealous blind rage for the USA set back and think about how "wonderful" it would have been to live in an communist , radical Muslim or other oppressive state of choice...Indeed "let the good times roll"


[edit on 28-4-2006 by Heckman]

Hello Heckman
Have you ever thought people outside of America think you need to be set free, one man's democracy is another man's prison.

Heckman:

A threat to the ENTIRE WORLD!! How you not understand that radical Muslim terrorism is a VERY big danger to the ENTIRE WORLD ESPECIALLY if they acquire weapons such as anthrax , vx nerve gas and nuclear weapons ?? One reason that the US went to war was to keep them from getting them...

Iraq had less to do with Islamic terrorism than Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, to name but a few. Next question.

No it is not a lie. Even your anti US links do not say the US sold weapons of mass destruction to Iraq they do (as I said)-->

Haha, my anti-US links? It is FACT that you sold WMD to him. Check your OWN National Security Archives. Haha, wow.

he US did not know about it until after the fact!! You mean to tell me that If the US would have invaded IRAQ at that point in time you would have supported it?

.... You invaded in 1991 and then pulled out and LET Saddam regain control. You LET him slaughter a Kurdish rebellion because you couldn't be sure his replacement as Prez of Iraq would be good for you. Again, IT'S ALL ON RECORD.

You are the one that needs to read. And read something different than distorted anti USA documents.

Ask a South American or anyone who knows anything about U.s. Foreign Policy.

Supported him by arresting him and putting him on trail?? More flip flopping. You logic continues to weaken.

You TRIED Noriega AFTER he fled his country in one of your helicopters. AFTER the corruption, the murder, and the hell under his miltary dictatorship. Next.

He FORCED the UNWILLING MAJORITY of the nation into communism with the use secret police and aid from the Soviet Union!!! How about you go read something.

WHOA. WTF are you talking about. I gave a LINK from the NSA that SHOWS President Nixon TELLING an aid that they will make the "Chilean economy scream" by using illegal sanctions and CIA operatives, in order to force Allende out because he would cost US corporations MONEY. Do you actually read any of the links I post?

So, I would be happy to see your link proving your point, but let's just say I won't be holding my breath.

Most all of your statements have been totally untrue false accusations against the US and incorrect assumptions about history , military , US policy and the Geneva Conventions.

Because you say so, not because you post anything factual backing up your side. Again, maybe next time.

I say boil in your stew of anti USA hatred until you shake with anger and jealousy while spewing your false anti USA accusations . Meanwhile the USA and other free countries of the world continue to successfully promote democracy and freedom across the face of the earth.

How gloriously simple, uniformed, and ignorant. Rah rah rah!

People must hate the U.S. because it spreads democracy and freedom across the world, and you know how people hate that. Heheh.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Hello Heckman
Have you ever thought people outside of America think you need to be set free, one man's democracy is another man's prison.

its true, i feel democracy is another world for american ignorance.

Duder, El Duderino justs likes to bag on the US man.

I think it might be because Qubec is not an independent country as he likes, and he thinks that is because of a conspiracy from the US.

You need to drink a white russian and roll at the bowling alley man.

The USA is not like the German nihilists with a crazy ferret army trying to take over the world like you stated.

In fact the USA contributes more money to the Little Lebowski Urban Achievers for economic aid all around the world dude thn any other country.

We even have these great movies like the Big Lebowski, yet the Duder does not respect us.

Sure the US does some jerk things, but every country does man. I don't think the US going into Iraq was a positive move man. But to call my country a piece of crap consistently, well I'm gonna have to pee on your rug. And I know how it ties your whole room togther.

For now, and until they have less oil than their huge manufacturing-exporting economy allows, China's all caught up in dollars.

Why would they want to ruin that, at this time. Remove them from MFN trade status and watch their ecomomy. Bing-Bam-Boong.

Dallas

Originally posted by Heckman

Why not according to your reasoning ... The US was never attacked by Germany yet the US invaded and occupied anyway!!!

Actually.

Germany declared war on america


EIDT: Before this turns into a slug fest, This topic has been discussed before and you should search it up to find out that conclusion


[edit on 11-5-2006 by chinawhite]

sbob:

But to call my country a piece of crap consistently, well I'm gonna have to pee on your rug. And I know how it ties your whole room togther.

I am not calling your country a piece of crap. I am calling your government's foreign policy a piece of crap, and your corporate media's inability to ask the right questions a piece of crap. None of which your average American has an iota of control over.

Oh, and Donnie, you're out of your element!

HA! Let China have America.
Haw long do you think they would wont to keep it?
The police have a hard time controlling the people.
What? The soldiers would shoot them!
The polices do that now!
Half of Americans are totally mad!
You see it every day. There is no way China could cope.

Some thing that dos worry me is England.
“My home, if you had not guess’t I am not a yank”
We are now going to get a lot of Nuclear power stations.
I would say they are to make a lot of Nuclear weapons.
I read some wear that a Nuclear weapon
starts to go weak! after six years??
So they have to keep them up dated.
I bet America has lot of Nuclear power stations soon.
Usa can deploy their weapons very quickly and quietly.
So a big first strike would be best!
I said the yanks are mad.
“Ok! Now rip me to pieces”

People must hate the U.S. because it spreads democracy and freedom across the world, and you know how people hate that.

I had to laugh at that. Spread democracy? Have you forgotten what happened in Vietnam? Before the war started, it was agreed INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.S. that there would be a nationwide (north and south) election to elect a UNIFIED leader. When all directions pointed to Ho Chi Minh as the victor, the U.S. CANCELLED the elections and began prepping for war.

Does that sound like spreading democracy?