Training is the best supersoldier project.......however different experiments are conducted all the time to enhance soldier performance. Putting things in soldiers' food and then evaluate them while in garrisoned training is common practice. Nothing crazy are bizzare, or really outside of using different amino acid compounds in foods to see how the soldiers' performance responds. They do the same thing with athletes all the time, and usually everything in GNC was originally a military project.

MDE762,

Training doesn't mean diddly dip when both sides have autofire weapons and the round count logistics to use them. We proved that in SEA where the bullets:bodies figures ramped up orders of magnitude above even what they had been in WWII.

It gets even worse when, /a mass/ of 'trained' combatants dictates COE or Contempt Of Engagement tactics by an outnumbered insurgency forced to employ bombs to avoid contact altogether.

It is simply too easy to make it impossible for a person to pass through a given choke without being sprayed down by so many projectiles as to render 'training' an exercise in diminishing returns.

Similarly, the use of metabolic sustainment aids is worthless if you are doing 1.5-2mph in bad terrain and 4-7mph in good.

Because the threat which has a gun and a bag of rice and _knowledge of the area_ will outpace you or turn and flank you in small ambush after small ambush.

And as soon as you go airmobile or A-UAV as an 'overhead enhancer', IT, not the soldier becomes the dominant force leverage.

At which point, you could use prisoners with death-collars and don't-point-at-me 'officer safed' guns and the result would be the same because the ONLY function of modern infantry is to either bare leg and stick into bush looking for something to bite down, hard.

Or to sit atop an already overrun position and refuse to let the goats back among the sheep.

'Training' has nothing to do with either of those competencies, it's all about seeing the threat before he CAN 'bite'. And/or local cultural awareness from birth to discriminate on more than a profile basis.

As for the others who would have us believe the genetics are the answer, I ask you: AS A FUNCTION OF THE GENERATION LAG PROBLEM DO YOU NOT REALIZE that the one thing which makes a soldier an affordable tool for his government is his cannonfodder economics? Are you going to go to his parents and say "The doc is going to put this modified ovum in you, you can raise him for the 300-500 grande it takes to bring him up to 18 and then WE will get the hyper-athletic monster we've made to send him off to war. Okey Dokey?"

_As soon as the government has to pay for the raising of the offspring to adulthood before killing him_ his utility to their force model becomes ZERO.

And that is the greatest sadness inherent to Go Army! type advertising BS. Because you are telling parents to encourage kids to enter into a random shooting gallery environment for all of 50 grande in local college or 120 grande in a major institution rewards.

Without explaining that 'training' doesn't mean diddly dip to their survival. Or to the WASTE which is all the years before that they have put into what was created in love. And sold off in economic desperation.


KPl.


P.S. According to a recent newsreport, Army vet unemployment rates are 16% or almost double that of the national average. Because they throw away four years or their youth for 'training' that is absolutely worthless outside the service, then get dumped back into Real Life with no social interaction skills or specific civillian workplace knowledge, a minimum of 2yrs behind their fellows. One woman, an ex Patriot Battery officer, has to run 2 part time jobs while taking /part time courses/ as she tries to make ends meet and retrain herself. From scratch.

NOW.

Imagine you are doing this to a 'super soldier' whose natural testosterone and endorphine accelerant levels are apt to be ENORMOUS, who has motor-path brain neurology that is like an arclamp of needful-discharge compared to most men. And whose employability in sports is likely specifically regulated because he is on behavior normalizers and steroids to sustain his enhanced biology and moderate the physiological NEED to run, jump, leap, _kill_.

He would be like the worst case you've ever heard of regarding 'performance enhanced' athletes becoming beligerant barbarians. X10.

JUST THE KIND OF GUY WE WANT LOOSE IN AN EVER MORE REGULATED SOCIETY WHERE HIS 'JOB SKILS' HAVE NO LEGAL USE.

hey man, you obviously dont know anything about the military.....or warfare in general. Do you think that just because both sides may have automatic weapons that training makes no difference? Then explain the kill ratio of the US Army compared to the insurgents. You cant........You whole post was shokingly anti military, and if that's where you stand then fine, but dont knock those who serve.


and oh yeah btw if you havnt figured out by now.......Im an Army Infantryman. You dont know squat about tactics or training. Go pick up a FM 7-8 and get educated before you open your mouth or be quiet. And dont run down my brothers and myself who are dedicated to defending your ignorant veiws.

[edit on 103030p://upThursday by MDE762]

MDE762,

A more potent illustration of your argument would be:

1. How many Iraqi's have killed each other in comparison with U.S. inflicted
casualties?
2. Are 'infantry' doing anything to stop the wholesale MURDER of those which
the Hague convention places directly under our protection?
3. How many cadre 'professionals' are tying down 130,000 troops as babysitters
to social adolescents lacking the group-will to stand up and be reckoned?
4. What fraction of U.S. force casualties have occured at the hands of remote COE
systems vs. direct engagement?
5. How greatly have U.S. force casualties OR Iraqi ones decreased on a monthly
equivalency over the last 3 years?
6. What percentage of ANY attacks have been backtracked to their instigator with
successful elimination of the threat resulting in a NOTABLE REDUCTION
in /either/ Iraqi or Coallition followon casualties?

Of course, any halfway honest assessment of the Iraqi campaign, by the numbers, would lead to the inevitable conclusion that a tiny fraction of opfor 'elite' is stiffening an otherwise lackadaisical insurgency into a force that is beating the shiite out of their own and at least /humiliating/ the U.S. occupational force.

Which, given as your humiliation translates to our wasted money and appearance of weakness (inviting further attack), I find it ridiculous that you would claim status of being 'all that' as ANYONE'S protectors.

Not least because UBL would have had a helluva lot harder time making 9/11 happen if U.S. forces in the Gulf had not been a daily incitation to barbarian hatred.

Mind you, there are some simple things that could and should be done. Things which I assume ('in the absence of having read' FM 7-8) that even a grunt could manage.

1. Nobody comes home until it's over, over there.
If that means 250-350,000 men. SO BE IT. You volunteered to defend We The People without asking if we wanted you to. And we know that the 1 year term of Vietnam tours did to force competencies, let alone densities. No wives, no kids, no mom or pop. You are killers. Maybe frustration will motivate you to be taken seriously.
2. No hostile has a weapon.
Or the means to make one (Batteries outside of cars. Cellphones not registered to user. Transmitters or wire of _any_ kind). On the penalty of an immediate field court. No matter who. No matter which mullah or holy-see is involved.
3. Everyone has an Identity card.
Stating residency and workplace with competent biometric, DNA and blood workup 'next of kin' relevance. If you are caught on video, as a corpse or by any other forensic link. You are dead. While your family are subject to eviction/burn down. If insurgent materials are found at work, so to are all your coworkers. Being caught without an ID card is worth an instant Field Court. Being caught with a false ID card is worth an instant Field Court.
4. Any attack by any means which relates to cellphones or automobiles is an instant void on priveleged use thereof for 1 month. Dealers who sell cars, owners who do not secure cars will be subject to Field Court if their vehicle is used in an IED or driveby attack. Repeat offenses to be regionally six months, a year and 'indefinitely' restricted as necessary or until they get tired of walking.
5. Gathering in groups larger than 5 for any reason without public permit is subject to arrest and 1 year sentencing for each man over the total in public assembly. If arms are displayed, all participants are subject to remote annihilation on suspicion.
6. Remote monitoring.
Will be implemented in every city center and along all traffic routes. To include telephone pole sensor mounts and MULTIPLE (not 9, not 12 but 20-50) UAV orbits.
Any attack on any of these systems to be considered a Field Court offense.
7. Anyone dealing internationally will, in combination with the government issuing the visa, be responsible for insuring all foreign visitors to the amount of 1 million dollars 'good behavior'. If a foreign national is found inside the borders without it, they are eligible for Field Court. As is their host. While the agency which delivered them loses it's contract, instantly and irrevocably. If this shuts down borders. So be it.

WE DID THIS ONCE ALREADY. Defeating a nascent insurgency in the Werewolves within six months. Albeit we had the French, British and Russians to play bad-cop with mass rape, burndown/shelling of whole villages and 'evacuation to the East' as potent alternative negative incentives.

And that is the key.

Because as soon as you make it a 'known element' of police-missioning rather than a 'tactical' response-in-the-moment. You create an incentive system which forces the masses to pick a side and support it.

CONCLUSION.
As usual, people vastly overestimate the 'sensitivity' of the world in comparison with the WILL of Americans to see a little blood on the bayonet for what was done on 9/11. And YOU are not held to the world's standard but to ours.

A standard which you have failed, are failing and WILL CONTINUE TO FALL SHORT OF so long as you don't WIN the war. And lacking that, FIND THE SYMBOLIC WILL which drives the other side's desire to do so. So long as you are not in Pakistan, hunting down UBL, you are failing U.S.. So long as you make Iraq a second-best alternative not worth locking down until they squeal. You are failing U.S..

Don't pretend there is an excuse for what you are NOT doing buried in the R&P Manual. Because there isn't. We are going to end up spending a Trillion Dollars in Iraq, for your failure.

And when, in 2009, you come skulking home with your tail between OUR legs, leaving behind a destabilized ME at the venal command of a new POTUS. I want you to remember what I said:

Training Don't Mean Nothin'. If you have THE WILL to win. They have it, in spades. And you are doing nothing to take it away from them.

Also the spartan is chosen from a examined group. the group is selected based on tests done with parental consent.

Of course there doing this. It's been tried and tested all through history.

Hitler was hyped up on amphetamine (speed) by his doctors (note fast and intense angry speeches, moodiness, rage, comedown depression).

The Japanese in WWII produced massive quantities of meth-amphetamine to give to solders the surplus of which later found its way to the US.

Combat pilots were or maybe still are given "go pills" (speed) to keep them alert and focused over long missions.

Remote viewing, esp, sleep deprivation, LSD, mind-control, torture and pain thresholds have been tested my almost every country in every war.

As far as I know, bullet still wins.

Not exactly a program, but the spartans (through near fatal training and superior breeding) were nearly impervious to pain and were brave to a fault
the result is obvious

a company of 300 spartans held off many many times their numbers in persian forces in the battle at thermopylae.


(there are stories of the spartans not feeling pain to the point where they DIE of wounds without realizing their fatality)

they trained from age 7 joined active duty at 20 and retired from service at 60

Whenever I hear the term “Super Soldier” I for one realize it is a subjective term and that many like myself may have differing definitions for what super soldier means.

My idea of a super soldier is a super soldier you can grow in a lab over and over within a short period of time with the ability to pre-program the DNA to create the specialized options that could benefit the soldier. If struck by bullets or penetrating objects it would not be affected and would continue to kill you. It would feel no pain, have no emotions other than what was programmed into it and would not have the usual fears, ambitions and humanistic motivations. Add some type of collective thought process and were getting to super soldier status.

With the ability to program the DNA you could have whatever skill or combination of skills that someone might want you to possess in an arsenal of combat skills and training skills.

Super soldier is a very valid subject that should be a category of its own on ATS next to Skunk Works. With so many possibilities that super soldier could encompass we could even begin to discuss how they could be used to accomplish large scale operations and or military operations. In the intelligence community it would be a vital tool in dangerous missions and in penetrating and appearing as foreign subjects with characteristics and features only found in those from the foreign culture. Such concerns could be programmed into the DNA and would allow for creating whatever type of image you could desire. As a cover it would be most beneficial.

Such an ability in my mind would be a super soldier without doubt. It would no doubt be the most formidable enemy to meet with and engage in combat that anyone could imagine. Just a thought, but the term super soldier made me realize that it could mean a lot of things to different people.

well there is the nazi Uber-soldiers i dont know a whole lot but they used chemicals and drugs I think. And now the us army is using mechanical limbs to make soldiers stronger

When I read your OP I immediately thought of the movie "Men who stare at goats" and in the credits at the end of the movie was a link to a site FirstEarthBattalion.org, really enjoyed the movie and found the site very interesting!

Weren't these American forces really the start of Super Soldiers?

S&F

ilove steroids morals and ethics in the Russian forces for steroids is probably non existent china too i dont doubt the possibility there are more bad ass hand to hand fighters and gun slinger squads and teams than any us but its always tit for tat complexities in information are what win the fight not drugs guns and numbers i would still like to see a hand to hand tournament or mainevent wargames in current us finacial problems mainevent war games sounds good.

Yeah it's been tried, I'm not supposed to talk about it but when they gave me the serum it allowed me to do exceptional things.

I started training 2o hours a day lifting big old cars and big bails of hay,

and I run 10,000 miles every morning,

I drink water, 20 gallons a pop and I can throw a Volkswagon a whole half block, and 4 million sit ups...in a minute.... ..I ain't lying I did it.


HA, I just had to say that. Been waiting years to use that line.....